Tackeling my first timing job, question regarding removal of cams

[PieEyedPiper]

Well it's about time that I get my hands dirty with a timing job.
I'm going to start on Friday and I'm pretty sure I have everything I need.

My plans are to change all timing components ( incl. bs belt), replace the cam seals and the water pump.

My question is how do I tie these operations all together? I have all the FAQs and how to's and manuals I can find printed out, but I'm still fairly uncertain how removal of the cam gears and the cams themselves to replace the cam seals is going to go down.
Is it important to put the cams back the same way I found them (I'm assuming yes)? How can I be sure that I do? Do the cams only go in the way they came out? Do I have to mess with the lifters to put them back in? Do the cams easily rotate in the head if the gears/belt isn't on? Is that going to be an issue?

Basically I'm just concerned I'll never get the thing back in time if I remove the cams.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I used an OEM belt. I don't think its the timing belt that is too tight though. Krummel has a thread going about his loose belt and mine is just a tiny tiny bit more snug than his - by the pictures. If anything I'd like it to be even a little more snug.

The car sounds like it has a supercharger whine when driving, the sound gets drowned out after 3.5k though from other engine noise. The only posts I found referencing a recent timing job and "surpercharger" was a fellow who had over tightened his balance shaft belt.

I'm in the thick of it right now, just taking a snack break. I took off all the covers etc and the noise was still there so I went ahead and setup my mechanic's stethoscope - which was useless. I couldn't pinpoint the sound and all the stethoscope gave me were largely exaggerated and indecipherable sounds. So I went ahead and said "why not?" and loosened the tension on the balance shaft belt.
The noise appears to have stopped.

I'll check it again in a few minutes to confirm the noise is actually gone. Feel free to post your thoughts in the meantime.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Well, I've tested it twice now. It SEEMS that a tigher balanceshaft belt = supercharger whine and looser = not. I'm going to test a few more times to be sure. I don't want to do any extra work. What's weird though is how I made sure that there was 5mm-7mm of belt deflection when I tensioned it initially. Maybe this is a YMMV kind of thing. Either that, or I twisted the pulley tighter when tightening the bolt down.

Another oddity I discovered is that Mitsu themselves did the last timing job on this car and they didn't use a Mitsu BS belt. It's all black and unmarked in any fashion. Weird, I even have the receipt for an OEM belt.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

That's exactly what it was. Over-tightened balance shaft belt. I also amazed myself how fast I can tear it down and put it all back together now. I also put that "missing" bolt back in it's proper place. Haven't gone for a drive yet but it sounds like it should and I'm confident everything will be good to go.

Good thing, too. I'm taking the eclipse on vacation in a couple of days! I'm gonna need some R&R to give these joints a rest.
Thanks again everyone. Oh and for anyone who comes across this thread in the future: Timing job is really really easy.

 

[romeen]

One thing to note. The BS belt tensioner pulley has a lip on it. The lip should be away from the engine. I only mention this because the pic shown in the vfaq has it wrong.

 

[1990AWD]

nicely done. and yes it is much easier the more you do it. when I did mine the first time I had to strip down the covers and acc. belts and stuff because I just couldn't get the tension right. I got really fast at doing that .

 

[PieEyedPiper]

nicely done. and yes it is much easier the more you do it. when I did mine the first time I had to strip down the covers and acc. belts and stuff because I just couldn't get the tension right. I got really fast at doing that .

Thanks, yeah round two of taking it down went soooo much faster. The truth of the matter is that dealing with the covers and acc. belts is far more difficult than the actual timing job.

One last picture I found, This one is for you guys, Romeen, and Anthony!
<a href="http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e278/PieEyedPiper/?action=view&current=Picture002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e278/PieEyedPiper/Picture002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

EDIT: Quite happy that the bent pin didn't cause me any trouble.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Glad to hear everything went smoothly.
That cam seal does not appear to be seated correctly.
BS Belt is exactly that, Bull Sh!t Belt.
If I lived closer to you I'd have been there to help you eliminate that crap right on the car...
Been there, done that on 4 cars.
2 gst's (easier with motor in car) and 2 awd's...
Not too fun, just takes awhile.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Glad to hear everything went smoothly.
That cam seal does not appear to be seated correctly.
BS Belt is exactly that, Bull Sh!t Belt.
If I lived closer to you I'd have been there to help you eliminate that crap right on the car...
Been there, done that on 4 cars.
2 gst's (easier with motor in car) and 2 awd's...
Not too fun, just takes awhile.

^^ exactly why I love this community.

That shot was taken prior to removal of the cams. I had replaced the seals as one of the first operations and then had to remove the cams to get the crank bolt out so the seals were re-seated by the end of the show. 600miles on the job now, I trust that the seals aren't pouring oil into my timing cover. However, being the paranoid guy that I am I will double check that the seals are doing their job soon.

I just hate messing with that damned strut bar to get the top timing cover off

 

[Strm Trpr]

Yeah, I was worried too when I replaced my cams seals, water pump and all other oil seals on the front case, I left all of my T-Belt covers off and have never used them again since 2004.
I've put over 110,000 combine miles on both of my DSM's and haven't a had any issues yet... knock on wood.

I hate T-Belt covers.
When ever I agree to help someone do a T-Belt/BSE job I always request that they remove all auxiliary belts, A/C Belt Tensioner Pulley, Water Pump Pulley and Timing Belt Covers before I even come over to help.

Then we push the car into the driveway, jack it up as high as possible on two jackstands up front and degrease the entire engine from top to bottom, back to front, and especially the T-Belt side.

Working on a greasy engine sucks, and I refuse to do it...