Sub Frame total loss?

[laserspeeddemon]

Pretty much, I'm confirming my fears. I removed the front sub frame of the Talon. After inspection, I found that the rally practice sessions I have put the car through may have cracked the front subframe beyond safe (or at least predictable) operation.

I first thought it was a surface on the paint that allowed water to rust the metal a little. Then I flipped it over and say that it went all the way through.

So, this is a total loss, huh?

 

[numlock666]

Wow! Good job . I've broken the upper control arm and mount off the chassis. All the spot welds that held it in there broke, and it would rattle around at over 25mph.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I wasn't bragging. I don't have the money to buy a new one AND all the bushings + motor mounts. So I want to reuse this one, not sure if I can. I got an internal battle. One says reuse it, one says replace it. Don't know which to listen to.

Someone tell me if I can use this again or not.

 

[asexton6969]

Please don't, you know you would feel horrible if something completely broke and you ended up hurting someone else, or even yourself. Save everyone the pain and do not reuse it. Money can be replaced....lives cant.

 

[92awddsm]

I personally would not reuse it. It will eventually break and maybe not cause an accident but cause damage to other parts. If I still had my old 91 awd parts car, I would just give it to you. I am going to a couple of local junkyards this weekend to get a new Block for Nikki's car so I will be on the lookout for you too. If I find anything, I will pm you both on here and TT.

Actually, wait a second. Isnt it the same on fwd and awd cars? I will check both out in the morning and reply back. I have a 93 fwd n/t sitting in my driveway beside my awd. If they are the same, you want to come down and go to the junkyard with me Sunday?

 

[97 4G63]

Well it looks like it's bad but if your tight on money you can try a junk yard or just have somebody do a good weld job on it i'm sure that will take care of your problem,

 

[absolute_DSM]

I wouldnt use it for more rally, even with it welded. If you were to just street drive it, a nice 240v weld would hold. We weld farming equipment at work (in IA? Imagine that!) that holds a good 1000lbs of weight and force without a problem. Just remember - if it aint pretty, itll hold

 

[92awddsm]

I wouldnt use it for more rally, even with it welded. If you were to just street drive it, a nice 240v weld would hold. We weld farming equipment at work (in IA? Imagine that!) that holds a good 1000lbs of weight and force without a problem. Just remember - if it aint pretty, itll hold

I do see a problem with welding. If the material is already brittle enough to crack like that, a weld will not hold over time. Heating the material with welding just makes it more brittle and prone to cracking along the edge of the weld. Im not sure that it would be a wise idea considering that the crossmember locates the lower control arms, supports the rearmost engine mount, steering rack is mounted to it, etc. Not to mention that it is also a major chassis reinforcement.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I personally would not reuse it. It will eventually break and maybe not cause an accident but cause damage to other parts. If I still had my old 91 awd parts car, I would just give it to you. I am going to a couple of local junkyards this weekend to get a new Block for Nikki's car so I will be on the lookout for you too. If I find anything, I will pm you both on here and TT.

Actually, wait a second. Isnt it the same on fwd and awd cars? I will check both out in the morning and reply back. I have a 93 fwd n/t sitting in my driveway beside my awd. If they are the same, you want to come down and go to the junkyard with me Sunday?

I can't. I reserved my time for Sunday to help another DSMer install a FMIC and Ebay EVO III GT 16g.

Due to mine and my wifes work schedule and having the kids time is tight. So I usually help out the DSMers around here to get my DSM fix (like smoking but healthier). Tomorrow, I'm gonna dick around with DSMLink setting for one guy and Sunday FMIC/16g install.

I almost leave no time to work on my car execpt after the kids go to sleep to when my wife comes home from work. Right now everything is off the car, I just need to order the parts and put them back in

 

[92awddsm]

I can't. I reserved my time for Sunday to help another DSMer install a FMIC and Ebay EVO III GT 16g.

Due to mine and my wifes work schedule and having the kids time is tight. So I usually help out the DSMers around here to get my DSM fix (like smoking but healthier). Tomorrow, I'm gonna dick around with DSMLink setting for one guy and Sunday FMIC/16g install.

I almost leave no time to work on my car execpt after the kids go to sleep to when my wife comes home from work. Right now everything is off the car, I just need to order the parts and put them back in

Well, I have to go regardless so I will let you know if I find anything. If so, Nikki will be down here next weekend so I could always send it back with her. Picking it up in Fairfax is way easier for you than coming to Richmond, right?

The reason I am suggesting this is because it will probably only be a $30-40 part at 2 of our local yards.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well, I have to go regardless so I will let you know if I find anything. If so, Nikki will be down here next weekend so I could always send it back with her. Picking it up in Fairfax is way easier for you than coming to Richmond, right?

The reason I am suggesting this is because it will probably only be a $30-40 part at 2 of our local yards.

If you want I can paypal you some dough. Just let me know how much it is.

At worst I can bring it down (for comparison) some weekend later and we can go raid a junkyard. Is it a "pick and pull it yourself" or do they do it?

 

[absolute_DSM]

I do see a problem with welding. If the material is already brittle enough to crack like that, a weld will not hold over time. Heating the material with welding just makes it more brittle and prone to cracking along the edge of the weld. Im not sure that it would be a wise idea considering that the crossmember locates the lower control arms, supports the rearmost engine mount, steering rack is mounted to it, etc. Not to mention that it is also a major chassis reinforcement.

The only reason I suggested that is for a temp solution. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Auto RS T]

I wouldn't use the damaged sub frame even if it is repaired. Especially if you are going to rally the car, it will only break again. If you do end up using a n/t subframe please post up the results on the comparison.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Keith, did you get a chance to find a sub frame?

 

[wishihadatalon]

I read in another thread that the fwd and the awd subframes are a little different. The guy said that he broke 3 fwd subframes before switching to an awd one which "has more bracing"

 

[92awddsm]

Keith, did you get a chance to find a sub frame?

Sorry, I forgot to reply. I went to 2 scrap yards this weekend and for the 1st time in years, neither had any 1g's. The only dsm that I found was a 2ga n/t talon that was pretty much stripped bare. I am waiting for a friend to call me back and let me know if he has one sitting around.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Sorry, I forgot to reply. I went to 2 scrap yards this weekend and for the 1st time in years, neither had any 1g's. The only dsm that I found was a 2ga n/t talon that was pretty much stripped bare. I am waiting for a friend to call me back and let me know if he has one sitting around.

Yep... that about sums up my luck.

How about I come down next weekend (I'm busy this weekend) and see how the FWD one you have compares to the AWD one?

 

[Chadillac2000]

Wish you lived closer, I have one in perfect condition that I won't be using as i'm fabbing a tubular one up, and I would have traded you straight up for your cracked one. If you're going to be in the GA area soon you can have it.

 

[Morphius]

Weld it. Any good shop should be able to weld that correctly and reinforce it. That is typical, I have two here that have the same issue. If you install another used one, it's just going to do the same thing. Why not fix that one?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

The problem with welding it is A) I don't have a welder nor do I have the expeirence to weld it and B) I don't know a welder that I would trust with a job like this.

On to the question. The AWD and FWD are different. THe AWD has a raised portion where the driveshaft goes under it. The FWD does not have the raised portion. I went to 2 junkyards in Brandywine. I did however find a 92 AWD with the 4-bolt rear-end in tact. Too bad I don't have the cash for it.

 

[DanThMan1983]

Cheapest way to do it, I have had my subframe out and the bushings were screwed so I took rubber matting and made my own bushings, reinstalled the subframe and aligned the vehicle good as new. as far as getting a new sub frame I would get a used one from a local salvage yard, make sure the car was not slammed in the front otherwise your gonna end up with a bent or damaged subframe.

 

[3literpwr]

Im sure it could be welded.... A proper weld should be as good as new... I mean the mount bosses are welded on in the first place... Just have a good welder do it and it should be fine...
Do NOT let someone bogger welded it with a crappy sear welder...

Have fun
LP

 

[TSITuner4Lyfe69]

weldis a NO Replacement is a YES

 

[3literpwr]

Yes a new one would be great, but weld will hold and there is no question about that...
Every arm on my rally car is a fabricated NON stock item and is welded... If its too rusty then NO but with good base its a non issue...

Parker rally sports new car - a photoset on Flickr