Stroker

[talonted_one]

no one i know on the site has a block laying around

 

[yhype]

hey na90dsm. You said your gonna try and build a NT 2.3L. If you go to the clearance at www.machv.com they have some 2.3l hyrbid NT pistons for sale cheap. And as for the deck height difference the 4G64 is 6mm taller, i work at a Mitsu dealership and and compared the 2 blocks in the books. I might be able to find out any other specs on the blocks if you want me to.

 

[na90dsm]

I know man i want those pistons. they have one set left and im workin on gettin money. i have about $800 comin my way in like 2 weeks but thats the soonest i can get it

 

[yhype]

nice. If you get 'em let know how they perform. i would really like to see what kinda power that kinda engine would produce. why don't you email 'em and see if you can get them to lay them aside for you if you give 'em a down paymeny for them or something.

 

[na90dsm]

i dont think they will do that. there sales items are final sales and they just want them out. besides, i cant order them without a credit card. i dont have one and i wont be able to use on of my friends or something like that so i have to see how i will pay for them. if there there im gonna get them but if not i most likely will order customs.

the pistons arent gonna be anything special. im gonna go with a stock wrist pin, .20 overbore, 11:0:1 comp ratio. i just have to find out what rods im gonna run these with if i decide to run these with a 4g64 crank. i wont be able to use the stock big rods i do beleive because of there size. they might be to short so i have to get the rods and pistons at once if i go with a 4g64 crank. im thinking about getting the FFWD butcher crank made form a stock crank, using the big rods, and using the custom pistons. i dont know if it will hold the 100 shot of nitrous im gonna throw on top.

 

[yhype]

it should be able to hold a 100 shot. Nothing in that setup isn't strong enough to hold that much power. let us know how it goes down.

 

[na90dsm]

will do

 

[na90dsm]

Ok guys its go time. I cracked a little wing off of my block when i blew my trans. I went to fix it this morning and noticed that this wing which hold a alignment pin for the transmission fell off the block so i get to rebuild my bottom end since i need a new block.

I want to rebuild a n/t 4g63 block up with 11:0:1 compression pistons reguardless of what else goes in it. This is what ive been seriously thinking about puttin in this thing now that its totally broke

11:0:1 pistons, stock wrist pin size, block bore 10 over
mitsu multi layer head gasket (metel)
cleavite bearings
total gapless rings
stock rods (possibly eagle h-beams)
balance shafts removed


and the crank i havent made up my mind about yet. Could I do up the stroker motor idea or would leaving the stock crank in be a better choice. This car is going to be off of the road for a long time because of me just getting back to work but I have about $1000 to spend now to get started. I can get a machine shop close to home to bore the block out and clean it up good, the pistons i will be ordering in the next 3 days, the rest gets ordered after that.

The question, should i build it as a stroker motor or would the n/a motor benifit more from the increased stroke. What are your thoughts guys, I'm leaning more towards the stock crank but I would like a couple of educated oppinions on this.

 

[Ramchargers]

Originally posted by RED_AWD_BLUR
http://www.jepistons.com/pdf/2002-sportcompact-dodgenissan.pdf

gives good specs on stoker motors.

btw rodlength/stroke=5.906/3.937=1.50013

optimal ratio is 1.7, 1.5<<<<1.7

1.5=bad

but you are talking about more displacement.= more power. I really wish someone would dyno some engines. 2.0 vs 2.3

I am not sure this is a real problem. There are a million 383 small block chevy's running around with much heavier pistons and heavier rods that regularly go 7000+ with a 1.52 R/S ratio. It sure does not concern me. I have just built one for my car.
Mike Licht

 

[na90dsm]

Originally posted by yhype
hey na90dsm. You said your gonna try and build a NT 2.3L. If you go to the clearance at www.machv.com they have some 2.3l hyrbid NT pistons for sale cheap. ]



i cracked my block, took car off the road and got the last set of these pistons. i got really really lucky and got em.

 

[yhype]

glad to see it na90dsm. hopefully you'll be able to make some good amount of power with which ever setup you go with either the stroker or non. keep us up to date on how it goes.

 

[na90dsm]

thanx man. im aiming for 225hp before the nitrous, but i have to decide which would be the best head setup for this motor. i think if i were to go with hks 272 cams on the exhaust and intake side i should be able to pull it off with .5mm oversized valves. i dont think with the non-turbo block even with the 11:0:1 compression ill have any need for anything bigger. anyone else have any input or thoughts on this. ive been searching and searching but i cant find a thing on the n/a head setup.

 

[na90dsm]

Ok, I'm at the point where i have to decide on connecting rods. I would like to do this stroker idea. What size rods will i have to use to gain the extra stroke from the crank. Do I use the same size rods or are they longer than the stock. I'm new to the stroker department so I dont know the difference. I have the pistons on the way. They have a stock size wrist pin and are 10 over. If i can get the specs on these rods I am going to start my search for a 4g64 crank.

And also are the bearings the same. Can i just take all new standard size bearings for the 4g63 crank and use them to mate the 4g64 into the 4g63 block. I really would like to build this setup for my n/a motor to see how the gains will be and how it would perform.

Will I also have to worry about anything with the differences in the deck heights. If this requires any kind of decking I may just use the stock crank. As long as I dont have to worry about the 6mm deck height difference and can use the same bearings, Or anyone can fill me in on a place to get these bearings I am all ears on doing this. I'm gettin this otor rolling so i am all ears on info and advice on the stroker.

also does anyone know where i can get a 4g64 crank. i would like a used one because i gonna send it out to get balanced anyway.

 

[yhype]

You should just contact www.ffwdconnection.com, since they build 2.3s. They could probaly tell you if the bearings are the same (I believe they are because i have been told the only difference between the 2 blocks is the 6mm taller deck). I would think that they should be able to answer any possible question you have, since eccentially your building the same as they do except yours will be an NA motor. For how to set up your head I would find some all motor guys and ask how they set up their head and then try to translate what they do to yours. later

P.S. -> if you don't find a crank let me know i can probaly get a hold of one, since i work at a mitsu dealership, You could try call junkyards / scrapyards, one has gotta be some where around ya

 

[na90dsm]

i have talked to ffwd before about a bottom end. i was gonna send it to them but i dont have that kind of cash at the moment. im gonna build it myself and just have the block bored and hot tanked at a good local machine shop. im gonna check the block surfaces for a good flat surface and im gonna put it together myself. it is going to be cheaper and i need that right now. im gonna buy either eagle rods or grode rods if i get lucky and get some cash.

i really want to go with the stroker idea because i would like to see how it performs on a naturally aspirated application. theve proven to be great for a turbo application so i am willing to see how it does n/a.

yhype i sent you a pm about the crank. thats really the only thing im having a hard time finding. im gonna call ffwd later on in the week and see what they say about the bearings and such, and then im going from there. as of right now things are going pretty smooth, i just need to find this crank

ok more info on what i need. i just got a email from someone replying that i need a crank with the matching trust width of 1.145". anyone got any ideas

 

[na90dsm]

ok a little update. i narrowed down what exactly i am looking for.i found a couple of specs on the 4g64 block and the 4g63 block for comparrison reasons, well i didnt find them someone pointed me to importperformanceparts.net and said they had the info. i was told i need the crank from a colt or ram 50. heres the block specs.

4g64 block

bore 86.5mm (3.406 in)
stroke 100mm (3.94 in)

4g63 block.

bore 85.0mm (3.35 in)
stroke 88.0mm (3.46 in)

i also found out the trust width of the crank is 1.145" which i need to match to make this work.

i took the 4g63 info from the owners manual that comes with the car. i got the 4g64 specs from impotperformanceparts.net. from what i understand the bearings are the same but to get this setup to work you have to hae rods with the 4g64 rod specs. i havent found the 4g64 rod specs yet but im gonna see if i can find them.

im looking into getting a stock 4g64 crank and rods to fit. i got my pistons here and im looking at rings too. the pistons i have are for a 85.1mm bore ( i think thats it after a 10 overbore) and im gonna get total rings for em. more to come.


just found this. a whole load of 4g64 specs.
http://www.motorpowerinc.com/specs/4g64.html



does anyone know if i can use the 4g63 rod specs when mating the 4g64 crank in this block, or will i have to use the 4g64 rod specs. now if i use the 4g64 rod specs, will i have to worry about the 6mm deck height when i put these in. will i run into trouble with the piston coming up out of the cylinder at all or will it stay in the 4g63 cylinder space.

 

[greathuskie]

dude this isnt na90dsm's update thread.........

 

[na90dsm]

I know sorry about that. I read so much on this and talked to a couple of people about the specs on this and found out a bunch of stuff. Now im gonna get my stroker goin. then ill post everything at once

 

[hose101772]

say if you got 2.3 pistons for a 63 block then youre going to come up short in a 64 block-heres what you need.a crank from a 6 bolt 64-set of 6 bolt turbo 63 rods(way stronger than NT)-use a 63 block.that will work---64 block will not work with pistons.you need a crank from a older galant or a sonada(hyundai)-may have to install pilot bearing.other than buying new bearings thats it.well maybe thats it-cant remember if belt sprocket spacing lines up with 63's-anyway that will get you started.as far as the 1.5 ratio-dont think thats going to be a problem-arent 5.0's close to that-those boys scream the crap out of them-they seem to hold up well.little side load never hurt anyone.

 

[na90dsm]

yea im not to worried about the rod angle. i found out that the older galant cranks are 7-bolt cranks. the 6-bolt cranks come out of a mitsu mighty max pickup. im not sure which motor was in the pick up that had this crank but i found someone who can get me one. hes also using the same one so i know it will bolt up and work. i tried going for the earliest build date i could on the galant and all of them had 7-bolt cranks. they were 4g64 block, but a 7-bolt

what year sonata are you refering too.

 

[91 NT Eclipse]

Originally posted by na90dsm
what year sonata are you refering too.

Early 90s had 4G63s in them.

 

[na90dsm]

Originally posted by 91 NT Eclipse


Early 90s had 4G63s in them.

thats what i thought. i didnt think they had a 4g64 in em.

 

[hose101772]

mines on the way from stateline salvage-89 sonata-4g64-6bolt.got my machine shop guy-ryan @mikes speed shop checking with eagle to see if they make a 156 mil rod,would be nice to get str/rod back.if so ill use the big bore stoker 63 pistons from wiseco.if no longer rods then ill just use my set in the 64 on some standard 64/63 head pistons.hope i can find a new head for cheap.mines been milled like 2 inches-joke-not for sure how much exactly,valve edges are well below deck surface.cant wait to get this one going again-make beeg johnny round eye mustang suck tail pipe.

 

[hose101772]

motor is here-2.4 6 bolt.in a few weeks i will know how the standard 64/63 wiseco pistons work out-no long rods available for cheap,oh well im sure the eagles will be fine in there.got a evo o2 housing aswell.have to find a another head,my valve guides are toast and the things been milled way to much.<-oh boy i get to port another one.so soon as i can find a proper head and get it together i'll let you everyone know how a 2.4 works or how uncool broken parts look.well-my tranny could use a go through.hmm-may be a while but the guy i got the o2 housing from is putting one together aswell,except hes got a fp30.either way i'll be sure and post the good and bad on it.



edit(oops guess i should have read my own post---did mention my head has been milled to much)