stock flapper vs 34mm flapper..

[firebirdvert305]

Well ive been told by several people when i order my evo 3 16g soon, If i want to run high boost keep the stock flapper as the 34mm gate will blow open under excessive boost. I like the idea of the 34mm flapper b/c of boost control which i seem to be having a real bad problem with boost creep. Discuss what you think...all and any input is appreciated.

 

[1stGenRocks]

from what i've read it depends on your plans for the car.

high boost keep the stock one low boost get the 34mm. im not sure where the crossover point that the 34mm blows open at is but thats what you need to take into consideration.

will this be a track car or a pump gas DD?

 

[daren_p]

I guess that all depends on what boost you are planning on running, so what do you whant to run? If you want to run 14 or 15, go with the 34mm. If you looking for 20 psi+ I think I'd go with the stock one. Not to say you can't hit some higer numbers with the 34 mm flapper as I have seen 22 psi with the 34 mm flapper but Im probably working the turbo harder.

 

[firebirdvert305]

guys...the car will be a track/street car..i goto the track maybe once every 3 months running 110 octane and 19+psi...Im still undecided on the 34mm or not. I usually on the street daily drive 17-18psi....what do u guys think my best bet would be?

 

[larsrya8]

gI usually on the street daily drive 17-18psi....

Is there anything stopping you from running more boost on the street? Most people can run 23-24psi on 93 octane, as long as they have a good tune. I thought Florida had 93 or 94 octane, so you should be able to run higher boost safely.

Up here in Wisconsin we get 93 octane. When I get my Evo3 I'm keeping the stock flapper. I plan on using this porting guide too. The combination of the two should result in relatively good boost control without the annoyance of a 34mm flapper blowing open at the slightest hint of 20psi.

If it doesn't work out I can always get the new SBR exhaust manifold and a Tial. Route the dump back into the downpipe and call it a day.

 

[firebirdvert305]

I know i can run more boost safely..we got 93 pump availble here whenever and whereever. I just run 17...i usually dont like to "max" the car out since its my daily driver. Keep it a little on the conservative side. Right now im getting bad creep with my punishment racing 02 dump + turbo xs boost controller <---hoping its the culprit. Are there any members running 20+ psi with a 34mm flapper lemme know...CHIME IN GUYS!

 

[daren_p]

17-18 should be fine with a 34 mm flapper. I run 18 no problem with my 34 mm flapper & have run up to 22psi. Actually one time I logged 25 psi when I was tring to source a problem and had the wg actuator pressure source disconnected. It was only for a couple seconds so I don't know if it would have held that boost to redline... If I was to do it again I probably wouldn't bother with the flapper upgrade. I was so worried about boost creep when I first ordered the turbo because of all the talk how they creep so bad. I think alot depends on proper porting which IMO they don't come with all the porting that is required to stop boost creep. With the flapper & proper porting holding 14 psi is no problem and could probably run 12 if I really wanted. If your not going to do any additional porting yourself you might think about the larger flapper.

 

[mirkoelek]

dont even bother thinking about, bigger flapper doors, or porting. do it right fist time get as you said SBR manifold with tial .. . youll always have problems with uncontrolled boost. trust me you dont wanna deal with that
my .02

 

[larsrya8]

dont even bother thinking about, bigger flapper doors, or porting. do it right fist time get as you said SBR manifold with tial .. . youll always have problems with uncontrolled boost. trust me you dont wanna deal with that
my .02

This sounds like it is aimed at me...

I can't choose an "external gate" option from turbochargers.com. If I find that there are creep issues, I can always tack-weld the flapper shut and run the external right?

 

[daren_p]

This sounds like it is aimed at me...

I can't choose an "external gate" option from turbochargers.com. If I find that there are creep issues, I can always tack-weld the flapper shut and run the external right?

Yes you can do that if need be. External may be the best way to go but there are a tonn of people including myself that have zero problems with boost creep or controlling boost .

 

[mirkoelek]

what if you want to upgrade your turbo later on? or .... Some people have problems some dont, but no people have if they go little more expencive and right way with external wastegate. that is my point. dont screw around ... do it right from the start , you will worry less later ... dsm is already pain in the but. when i had argument with my friend about dsmlink or less expencive safcII(only) he said i dont wanna spend more money. Now he is rebilding his engine 3RD time ... mine is still running with no problem 22psi every day ( thanks to dsmlink)

 

[mirkoelek]

This sounds like it is aimed at me...

I can't choose an "external gate" option from turbochargers.com. If I find that there are creep issues, I can always tack-weld the flapper shut and run the external right?

to weld your flapper door will be additional expense , and its hard to find who would and who could weld it for you. been there.

 

[larsrya8]

to weld your flapper door will be additional expense , and its hard to find who would and who could weld it for you. been there.

Well I have access to welding equipment and people who know how to weld. Is there a special type of welding that needs to be done?

Sorry if we're hijacking the thread...

 

[mirkoelek]

Well I have access to welding equipment and people who know how to weld. Is there a special type of welding that needs to be done?

Sorry if we're hijacking the thread...

yes, special welder.... or whatever it is. Same as you i thought it was simple but, it took me couple of days to get it done. anyway you have to do it if youre going with external wastegate

 

[sweet97]

I got my EVO3 from Buschur racing and did not get the 34mm flapper inless it was standard. I did get their EVO3 032 housing ported, great port job, I still run that 02 hopusing with my Holset HX-35/40 with 38mm flapper and creep is not a problem nor does the flapper blow open to my knowledge. Holds boost.Mark

 

[kraka]

My friend has the ported E3B16g w/ the 34mm flapper and b/c of the lack of fuel mods, he runs low (12-14psi) boost...So far he has had a crap load of creeping problems, to the point where he now has to save even more money for the fuel mods and now a tubular o2 and port job...

18psi daily and 20+ occasional I think is enough to consider the stock flapper...The best EvoIII track time I have seen was somewhere deep in the 11's...He ran the stock internal gate and flapper to a boost of like 27+psi...From what I understand, running higher boost should result in less creep anyway...At 14psi you might creep to like 18-19psi, whereas at 18psi you might not creep or only to 19-20psi...

Btw, if you think the mbc could be causing it, then it is boost spike not boost creep...Is the boost quickly shooting up after the wg opens, or is the gauge needle slowly/gradually CREEPING up past the set limit>?

 

[firebirdvert305]

its funny cuz im getting both boost spike and boost creep....i have my MBC set to 15psi...daily as of right now....when im in 2nd...go wot it will spike 19-20 then come back to 15psi...as the rpms rise to 4800-5200 rpms...the boost will creep to 19+....so basically it goes like this....Spike 20....come back to 15 (where it should be)...as rpms rise past 4800+rpms it will creep to 20psi before 5500rpms. Mind you my mods are punishment racing 02 dump 2.5"...to a 2.5" downpipe...to 3" exhaust w/no cats and no muffler just straight through.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Dude, I get boost creep with ONLY the WG. It will run 10psi most of the time in gears 1-3, but on the freeway, it'll creep to 15+psi. Even without the MBC in the circuit, it will still creep from 10psi to whatever it wants on the freeway in gears 4-5. It doesnt really buck hard or cut fuel, or pull timing, but its on the stock fuel. Read my mod list.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

where do you guys get your info from??

a stock OR a 34mm flapper will be fine from what you're asking. the "i've read things" kind of responses are all from different DSMers who are running 25+ psi on the e316G. how many of you guys plan on running that much boost? if you're not, you don't have anything to worry about with either flapper.

IMO go straight to external or just get the 34mm flapper. the boost creep won't be cured by just getting the flapper door, but with the porting that is done with the turbine housing. Keep in mind, when you get a turbo ported from a vendor, they are porting for FLOW, not for controlling boost creep. every e316G I've seen looks wonderful ported from any vendor, but additional porting to the wastegate hole, and passage to and from the wastegate must be opened up more. The main thing I would focus on is getting rid of the 90* turn the gas must go when trying to get to your wastegate side. when I had my e316G I had the entrance at about *20 if that and it didn't creep.

 

[devioustsi]

I have an evo316g and I have seen 32psi around 6000rpm with the 34mm flapper...so no complaints here...also I have done exactly what blcknspo0ln said about porting the wastegate for flow, that helps tremendously with creep.



The 32psi was an accident...my hallman hung up after an adjustment. I was trying to turn boost up from 18 to 20 and the spring must have bound or something....good thing the six bolt is strong.

 

[mirkoelek]

where do you guys get your info from??

a stock OR a 34mm flapper will be fine from what you're asking. the "i've read things" kind of responses are all from different DSMers who are running 25+ psi on the e316G. how many of you guys plan on running that much boost? if you're not, you don't have anything to worry about with either flapper..

Dude, i dont know where are you getting your info.!?! Just to let you know with high boost you have less problems with the creep. Check it out again.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

i don't know what impression you got from that post, but it was meant to say that other DSMers have BLOWN OPEN their wastegate at higher boost. not creep.

 

[JiggahMan]

I've done 30+ psi on a 20g, stock head/bottom end (including headstuds) for a few seconds but multiple times (somewhere around 5 or 6.) At the moment I'm running 24-26psi still stock internals and headstuds.. I also have a 34mm flapper on it, creeps a little but not too hard at high boost. As for blowing the door open.. I have no idea.

 

[kraka]

I've done 30+ psi on a 20g, stock head/bottom end (including headstuds) for a few seconds but multiple times (somewhere around 5 or 6.) At the moment I'm running 24-26psi still stock internals and headstuds.. I also have a 34mm flapper on it, creeps a little but not too hard at high boost. As for blowing the door open.. I have no idea.

It's just a matter of time before you start smelling coolant and notice your car overheating...I'd be very conservative to the limit of how many pulls you do daily at 26psi...Just a matter of time before the head lifts and then BOOM....

Everyone has different opinions about their E3B16g 34mm flappers, so it's hard to settle the ongoing dispute...IMO, creep is almost inevitable once you get the evoIII anyway

 

[dsmsucks]

It's just a matter of time before you start smelling coolant and notice your car overheating...I'd be very conservative to the limit of how many pulls you do daily at 26psi...Just a matter of time before the head lifts and then BOOM....

Everyone has different opinions about their E3B16g 34mm flappers, so it's hard to settle the ongoing dispute...IMO, creep is almost inevitable once you get the evoIII anyway

Boom