2G Starts then shuts off if you catch it quick enough you can turn switch off then back on again and have a few more seconds

[A66gt40]

I’m new to here but desperate for help I’ve tried everything I can think of to fix this issue but no luck.

I turn switch on no fuel pump until I hit the starter (heard this is normal). Anyway it fires right up and a few seconds to a couple minutes. It just dies like it’s getting no fuel, I hear the fuel pump running for a second after it dies. If I’m driving the car which is impossible almost but since it’s a manual I can a little bit. When it shuts off I can turn the switch off and on really quick and it will pick back up for a few more seconds.

I have replaced plugs, wires, coils, injectors, MAF, MAP, camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, rebuilt turbo, dropped fuel tank and cleaned it and all lines out, replaced fuel filter, starter, all vacuum lines, intercooler piping and hoses, new boost gauge, boost controller, BOV starter and gas cap.

I have also checked oil pressure and it is very good. Have 150lbs compression on all cylinders (engine was freshly rebuilt). New clutch as well as more things that I can’t think of right now. Now I’m thinking maybe faulty ignition switch but heck I don’t know I’m really getting tired of just throwing parts at it and about ready to set it on fire or sell it for scrap metal.

Please help any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds like possible loss of fuel pressure. Suggest attaching a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail to see if pressure is being maintained (33 psi at curb idle, 42-45 psi at curb idle if fuel pressure vacuum hose is disconnected and plugged). You may have a leak even though you replaced the FP regulator. Fuel pressure should be maintained for days after engine is turned off.
Throwing parts at a problem as a diagnosis technique rarely fixes it and just wastes $1000's (even if you eventually stumble upon the right one). Also the issue might not even be a bad part but something else, like a leak somewhere. Testing in a logical manner is always the more reliable, faster, and usually necessary way to go.

 

[TuskeeTuner]

Do you have a datalogger of some sort, maybe an OBDII scanner you can monitor? Sounds like it's definitely leaning out after the cold start enrichment cycle. If you modded the car recently, try to unmod it and see if it behaves normally/as expected.
Have patience with the car - it's only 26 years old! You're half way to solving the problem.

Is that photo the current configuration of your engine?

 

[A66gt40]

It’s a little different now and where exactly do you hook up the fuel pressure gauge because it doesn’t have a schrader valve or anything?

The fuel pump does continue to run for a few seconds after the car dies. So it is possible that it’s not getting proper pressure but where’s the pressure going if it’s not? I put a 340lph pump and there’s no visible leaks anywhere and the lines as long as everything else is completely clean. When I pull the plugs after I keep trying to keep it running it’s not showing that it’s running lean at all. Usually when something runs lean the plugs will be white while mine is turning black like if it were running rich.

Also if I go to remove the fuel line or the pressure regulator even if it hasn’t ran in several days it will still spray fuel as well as if when I open the gas cap it still has pressure. But I’d be the first to say that I’m not the best person for this kinda stuff. Which is pretty obvious.

I was reading some previous posts and comments and on one of them it said to crimp off the fuel return line to check fuel pressure. So I did and it wouldn’t even run. It completely flooded it out. But I noticed that at idle I’m getting -20psi on my boost gauge until I rev it up then it goes up to about 10-15psi I don’t know if any of that makes any difference or not.

Like I said I’m just mentioning things about my car that other have in hopes that it will help figure out what is wrong with it. Also it’s backfiring at higher rpm’s like popping sounds. It’s possible that it’s just where it flooded when I clamped off the return line.

I don’t necessarily have a data logger unless you are referring to something like hp tuners which I do have. Here are a couple of pictures I took one night while I was trying to fix it bc my other scanner doesn’t work on it for some weird reason. I did check the camshaft position sensor after this and noticed that the piece that bolts to the cam had come loose and had stripped off the tabs that goes into the cam. So I took one out of another engine and put it in and tested the sensor with a multimeter after I bought a new one and the new one was no good. I do have one from a 1g that I can put on it if needed.

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I can try to figure out how to record it while the car is running and post it if necessary

 

[TuskeeTuner]

You have a MAS airflow trouble code and a CAM position sensor code. Figure out why you have those two trouble codes - buy NEW parts if you have to.

There's a specific orientation of the cam position sensor tab with the engine at #1 TDC. Make sure it's correct - if it doesn't work one way, remove and flip it around if needed. Eliminate variables as best as possible.

Your spark plugs won't turn white if you don't get them hot enough for the carbon to burn into ash. Maybe your plugs are too cold of a heat range, maybe you've idled the car for too long, maybe the coolant temp isn't getting high enough...many things.

I asked about the engine bay because in the picture, you're running a MAS, and your BOV is dumped. It has to be recirculated or the car will run too rich/run incorrectly, or not at all. If you can get it to run at all with a MAS and dumped BOV, it'll pop and bog down in between shifts. Check for other obvious boost leaks as well, that'll make the car bog and run too rich. If your intake pipe isn't tight at the turbo or at the aft part of the MAS, you'll run lean.

A fuel pump like a 340LPH NEEDS an adjustable FPR otherwise you'll overrun the regulator and run TOO rich. Your plugs will turn black and foul out, your O2 sensor will be coated in soot and foul out, and the car will run like sh!t. An aftermarket AFPR will have a threaded boss (NPT) to install a pressure gauge. You might be able to find a universal fuel pressure test kit to troubleshoot your problem without adding expensive mods. Pinching off the line doesn't seem like a very "conclusive" way to rule out fuel pressure.

Your factory boost gauge seems to work normally - considering you have a P1104 code.

You can fix this...just take your time.

I just went through something similar to your puzzle with my 92 Laser that I bought broken. It needed a clutch, clutch pedal, clutch lever, clutch slave and master cylinders, transmission rebuild, all shifter bushings, rewire, new connectors, new terminations, repaired almost all of the engine harness, replaced the injectors, fuel rail, O2 sensor, multiple reconfigurations, new Fuelab filter, AFPR, fuel feed and return kits, real pump rewire, cooling fan controller, flushed the block with Evaporust a few times, installed a new radiator fan, rear brakes, differential and transfer case servicing, and tons of unf*(k!ng.

I had to learn ECMLink, reset everything, edit the entire VE map, and configure it for my setup. Took 3 years to straighten it out between waiting for parts and finding time to work on everything. But it drives now.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ya unfortunately the 2g turbo doesn't have a schrader valve to test fuel pressure.
But here is a gauge you can get that screws on the top of the fuel filter:
- https://stmtuned.com/products/46054-bm-fuel-pressure-gauge-100-psi
- https://www.amazon.com/46054-Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Set/dp/B000CIKCG2

Not saying low fuel pressure is definitely your problem but remember the 33psi at curb idle fuel pressure (42-45 psi at curb idle if fuel pressure vacuum hose is disconnected and plugged) should be present for days with engine off. Many fuel pumps have a one way check valve in them to prevent fuel from going backwards into the tank when pump is off, which if stuck open could drain pressure. Just relating some rare issues I've heard over the years.

Another thing you could do to prove you have enough fuel pressure to run injectors (and get strong spray pattern) after sitting for many hours/days: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/9...tried-almost-everything.507357/post-153617450.

 

[A66gt40]

Thanks everyone I’ll try some more stuff today and maybe can figure something out. Is it normal for the idle air control to make a clicking sound with the switch on engine off

Also I have a ton of extra parts that I have tried to switch around and different times trying to figure this out. When I first got it together it would run like a scalded dog. Had tons of power but then it started this mess

And I tried running the bov the right way instead of the way it is now and it wouldn’t run at all

 

[luv2rallye]

Is it normal for the idle air control to make a clicking sound with the switch on engine off

With the first switch on, yes. It's doing a calibrate.

 

[TuskeeTuner]

Thanks everyone I’ll try some more stuff today and maybe can figure something out. Is it normal for the idle air control to make a clicking sound with the switch on engine off

Also I have a ton of extra parts that I have tried to switch around and different times trying to figure this out. When I first got it together it would run like a scalded dog. Had tons of power but then it started this mess

Are they known-good parts? Were you able to clear the check engine light??

And I tried running the bov the right way instead of the way it is now and it wouldn’t run at all

I've seen something like this after a buddy did an SR20 swap in the parking lot. It would only run (at first) with no intercooler pipes hooked up, and only the MAS airflow sensor installed on the turbo. It was also running pig-rich and blowing black smoke at idle. Once he put everything together, it would die. Turns out his idle screw on the T-body wasn't adjusted correctly.
Leave the BOV recirculated because you don't want to discharge metered air between shifts and throttle changes. Hunt down the boost leak.

You have a handful of problems right now; CEL, air metering issues, and questionable fuel delivery. I think fixing all the electrical stuff first would be the best course of action.

 

[A66gt40]

I unhooked the return line from the fuel pressure regulator and it put a gallon of gas into a gas can while running maybe a minute is that normal

 

[TuskeeTuner]

I unhooked the return line from the fuel pressure regulator and it put a gallon of gas into a gas can while running maybe a minute is that normal

The math says 3.8 L/1 gallon X 60 min = about 60 gal/hr or 228 LPH.

 

[A66gt40]

The math says 3.8 L/1 gallon X 60 min = about 60 gal/hr or 228 LPH.

No offense intended or anything but I’m clueless about what you are saying. Does it mean that my car is doing right or wrong. I just thought that as much fuel as it is pumping out of the return line was a little excessive but I’m not sure.

I was doing some more research and discovered that my vac lines are not correct. So I’m going to fix that but the picture that I found doesn’t show where the lines from the valve cover goes. I’ve noticed on other cars that they have some kind of filter on the left side of the valve cover. I don’t know where to get that. Also do I leave my pvc valve hooked up the way it is. Right now it’s got a hose that runs straight down into the intake manifold. Here’s the picture of the vac setup that I’m doing.

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[A66gt40]

Well I think that my car is shot now.

I decided to take my car to the gas station and it done great until I got there then it cut off but I used my ignition switch trick bc it will cut out but if I turn the ignition switch off and on really quick it will rev up one time to about 4-5000 rpm but then I have to do it over and over again.

Anyway when I got home I noticed smoke out from the hood and the damn thing was on fire. The turbo was glowing cherry red and caught the radiator fans and stuff up front on fire so I panicked and grabbed the leaf blower and blew it out but the turbo was still so hot that I was afraid it would catch on fire again so I said the hell with it knowing that it would probably cause serious damage. So I got the water hose. I think that when I sprayed cold water on the extremely hot engine that it most likely caused some serious issues because I know that you can crack the head if you put cold water in it when it is hot and the turbo and manifold was literally glowing cherry red.

Although after about 30 minutes of non stop spraying it. I finally got it to somewhat quit steaming and I tried to crank it and it fired right up. And I mean it was seriously hot because I burned the heck out of my hands trying to pop the hood and get the hood prop up. It kinda melted the hood a bit towards it was angled down and the prop rod was red as well so my hands are pretty bad.

If I had used my head and not panicked I probably wouldn’t have gotten hurt.

 

[A66gt40]

Finally got it fixed even after it caught on fire last night.

All I had to do was replace the crappy 2g camshaft sensor with a 1g adjustable sensor and it runs like a champ again. Thanks to everyone who has helped me out with this mess.

Now if I can get my wife’s 2014 Lancer SE fixed I would be set.

 

[A66gt40]

I also figured out what the other codes on it were.

One was because I don’t have the electric solenoid for boost controller. The other on was where I have the block off plate on the EGR so it’s showing one for the MDP sensor.

 

[mattp_65]

Unplug your MAF and see if starts and stays on. If it does, then its your MAF.
I had the similar issue, but just a Cam position sensor code. I replaced it like 3 different sensors with same issue.

So unplugged MAF and started it and it ran, ran ok but stayed on. I replaced the MAF and was good to go.

 

[A66gt40]

I have been driving it around the only issue is that when it gets higher rpms it cuts out for a second and it is producing way too much boost (like 20lbs) even after I turned down my boost controller and softened my BOV.

Here’s a video of how it is running now. It still sputters but I believe it’s just the cam sensor needing to be adjusted but I have a total of 3 mag sensors all own. So I’ll take your advice and clean them up and try it and get a new filter as well.

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Here’s what it is doing when I rev it up

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[TuskeeTuner]

Here’s what it is doing when I rev it up

Almost sounds like a mis-fire or fuel cut. I'd need to see a data log to be for sure. How do you build so much boost like that??

No offense intended or anything but I’m clueless about what you are saying. Does it mean that my car is doing right or wrong. I just thought that as much fuel as it is pumping out of the return line was a little excessive but I’m not sure.

I was merely stating that according to the info you've provided, your fuel pump is moving 240 LPH at whatever voltage you've supplied it. The stock one is less (don't really know how much the stock puts out) so you're probably good.

I was doing some more research and discovered that my vac lines are not correct. So I’m going to fix that but the picture that I found doesn’t show where the lines from the valve cover goes. I’ve noticed on other cars that they have some kind of filter on the left side of the valve cover. I don’t know where to get that. Also do I leave my PCV valve hooked up the way it is. Right now it’s got a hose that runs straight down into the intake manifold. Here’s the picture of the vac setup that I’m doing.

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The line coming off the left side of the valve cover should go to the fresh air tube on the intake pipe. This is because when the throttle is closed, your car will pull fresh air through the MAS sensor, bypass the turbo, and burn the PCV gasses with the oily vapors at idle.

The 4G63T PCV System

IntroductionWith very few exceptions, no topic generates more debate than the PCV system used on our turbo DSMs. I think it is mostly because of the huge amount of confusing and sometimes misleading information that has been posted in the forums over the years. It is for this reason that I...

www.dsmtuners.com

Boost controller's boost source should be from the turbo outlet, and the bleed line should also dump back into the air intake behind the MAS sensor - depending on your setup. The BOV should not share vacuum with the boost controller.

 

[DSMPT]

How do you build so much boost like that??

It's because most likely the 1g CAS is installed 180 degree off or/and base timing is too retarded or/and mechanical valve timing is off. I would start to check from that.

 

[TuskeeTuner]

It's because most likely the 1g CAS is installed 180 degree off or/and base timing is too retarded or/and mechanical valve timing is off. I would start to check from that.

That would explain why the original poster's exhaust was glowing red and caught his car on fire. Too much combustion in the exhaust and not the combustion chamber.

 

[TuskeeTuner]

Finally got it fixed even after it caught on fire last night.

All I had to do was replace the crappy 2g camshaft sensor with a 1g adjustable sensor and it runs like a champ again. Thanks to everyone who has helped me out with this mess.

Now if I can get my wife’s 2014 Lancer SE fixed I would be set.

Forgot to ask; did you verify base timing at 5* BTDC using a timing light?

 

[A66gt40]

When I was data logging using hp tuners it was showing something like 15 degrees advanced timing at a red light

 

[steve]

When I was data logging using hp tuners it was showing something like 15 degrees advanced timing at a red light

Not the same thing and if the mechanical timing isn't synchronized with the electrical you won't know from a datalogger.

It's also not clear if both the timing signals (cam and crank) are coming from the 1G CAS or if there is a crank trigger on the block. It wouldn't have run very well if he was only using the 2Gb cam trigger that was in the pictures and nothing for the crank. That makes me wonder if the engine is really a 6 bolt or if it's a 2gb 7 bolt. Unless both signals are coming from the 1G CAS the base timing isn't adjustable.

Since I'm jumping in late here maybe I missed it but I don't see a very clear description of whats what with what his profile suggests was a basket case to start with.

 

[A66gt40]

Well it’s a 96 7-bolt engine and I still have the factory crank sensor hooked up.

I’m only using the 1g cam sensor as a cam sensor and not hooked up for both but none of it matters anymore because I changed the oil in it today and no metal or brass shavings in the pan but I took someone’s obviously terrible advice and ran 15w40 Shell Rotella with half a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer and when I started it it started having a bottom end knock so I shut it off immediately and put Mobil one full synthetic 5w30 in it started it and as soon as I lightly revved it up it had same sound and I noticed brass shavings in the bottom of the drain pan so definitely a rod or main bearing has went out. I’m praying that since it was not driven or anything when it done it and I hadn’t reved it over 3,000 rpms gently just to see what was knocking that it’s just the bearings and that it didn’t hurt anything else but I guess I’ll find out when I drop the oil pan.

Only thing that I can think of that could have caused it was yesterday when I was driving it, it kept blowing the intercooler pipes off and it got a little hot. Now I still have good oil pressure and it only does it if I rev it up a little bit but I’m not going to chance it until I pull the oil pan and drop the bearings just to see how bad the damage is.

It did blow out the front seal in the engine because it started leaking so I’m thinking it’s a main bearing. My only question is if it’s possible to fix it just by buying a new set of bearings that is as long as it didn’t hurt the crankshaft and if it did is it possible just to polish it with Emory cloth? Also what kind of bearings would I need to buy? Are ACL race bearings good or?

Also I have a really stupid question. What does DSM mean (darn stupid machine) because I’ve never had a vehicle give me so much trouble in my entire life.

 

[steve]

Also I have a really stupid question. What does DSM mean (darn stupid machine) because I’ve never had a vehicle give me so much trouble in my entire life.

If you're serious, it stands for Diamond Star Motors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-Star_Motors