Spyder Spyder GS Headjob Problem Burning Oil and Coolant

[badboyr6]

Hi guys, got a problem with my sisters 99 Spyder GS. It has the 2.4l 4G64 engine in it. Well my sister overheated the car and blew the headgasket. The car was sucking down coolant and blowing it out the back.

Anyways, i took the head off and did a complete headjob on it. Took the head to the machine shop and had them go through the valves and install new valve stem seals. Note: Car was not burning oil before i took the head off. After i got the head back i put it on with a new headgasket, followed all the instructions. I did the timing on the car, i installed all new belts. The car started fine, i drove it around the block and apparently it was running ok.

I drove it around town for a good 20 mins. Come home, all the coolant is gone. Apparently i didn't change the thermostat and i don't know if that messed up the new headgasket i put on. So i take out the old thermostat and its rusted in place, change it, and the car seems to be running fine. I continued to drive it, so the car was blowing blue smoke (oil) but it was sucking down coolant also. I keep driving it for the rest of the week, watching the temp gauge. I had to refill the radiator constantly and now it sucks down 1-1/2 quarts of oil a week . I checked my compression, (1)195, (2)198, (3)197, (4)201.

I need help to get this car back to normal. What do i do now? What would be causing the burning of the oil? I'm driving down the road and I'm followed by a huge cloud of blueish white smoke. I know the white is coolent, but if i decide to take the head off again, how can i fix the oil burning? thanks

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

sounds to me like it may be rings, did it smoke at all before you did the head? I noticed that the compression is kind of low on cyl.1. Have you noticed any hesatations or knocking?

 

[Rob10_99]

So the car was overheated after the valve stems?
FYI, a 'complete' headjob is valve guides, seals, valves, seats(at least ground), lapped, resurfaced.

Sounds like you didn't get new guides, which most people don't but that is fine. There's only two ways you can be losing oil. From the head, or from the rings.(IE no turbo, no dripping oil.)
Have any non stock egr setup?

edit, yeah I think you might be onto something '16g, for being NA420a that compression is a little low...

 

[dsm'r sk1mp]

sounds to me like it may be rings, did it smoke at all before you did the head? I noticed that the compression is kind of low on cyl.1. Have you noticed any hesatations or knocking?

um i believe that he stated that it was running perfect before the change. hey question... im sure the machine shop checked the head for warpage but do you know if they did for sure. another thing is does the car feel weak at all because # 1 does seem low and there is a possability that # 1 ring could be going bad causing these things to happen.... you just might have to be doing a rebuild bud. report back when you get the answers please

 

[badboyr6]

Actually before I even took the head off, cyl 1 was at 75, so i think i had a stuck valve.

The car did not smoke or eat oil at all before i removed the head well except for the coolant that it was sucking down, but before she overheated it the car had no problems, that what confuses me.

I have a 98 gst, i did the same exact job to it, but it turned out perfectly..this one has me in a stump. car has 123, 000 miles

another thing is does the car feel weak at all because # 1 does seem low and there is a possability that # 1 ring could be going bad causing these things to happen.

car does seem weak, like its not running to its full capacity

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

i say its most likely in the guides or stem seals. i would check over that before you do anything else. its alot better than a rebuild by far. ive already been over the whole seat, stem seal, guides, ect. when i bent my valves cause of that freakin timing belt breaking.

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

dang. cyl. 1 is definately the culprit if comp. was 75. should have just about close to the same range on each cyl.

 

[badboyr6]

I think i might have to take that head off to have them check the stem seals right? maybe have the machine shop check for warpage and do a pressure test?

 

[dsm'r sk1mp]

dang. cyl. 1 is definately the culprit if comp. was 75. should have just about close to the same range on each cyl.

im with you on that one bro... hey another thing you said it was a t 75! thats hella weak um i would deffinalty think about the rings bro cause you over heated... and by the way why did you over heat... was it cause before this happened it was sitll eating up coolant?

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

exactly. dont take any machine shops word for it. i usually sit and watch my machinist do the work. have him check the seals and guides, tell him to check the deck height and check for warpage.

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

dsm'r sk1mp is right. while you have your head off, if you decide to, check ## side wall clearances with a feeler guage on cyl.1 on compression stroke, check clearance specs and see if you see any abnormal wear on cyl. walls

 

[badboyr6]

well my sis was driving the car and prior to this one of the coolant hoses in the back ruptured so the car overheated. I replaced the hose, but it seemed OK, and she continued to drive it. I think she was coming back from school one day and it just overheated. She pulled over once she noticed( i think too late), and i think in that overheating was when she blew the head gasket. But the car never gave issues before this incident. never sucked down coolant or oil. Until now the car was running like a top. I think the culprit to the main overheating issue was the thermostat, rusted closed...i dont know what else it could be, honestly

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

that explains the coolant issue, but you still have an unknown culprit of oil burning. if it was me and its not, but i would check the rings, side wall clearances, wall wear, and check the stem seals and guides and replace if needed

 

[badboyr6]

im gonna see if i rip the head off and see what i find. I don't really know how to check the rings, side wall clearances, wall wear, and check the stem seals and guides. what a mission..

 

[dsm'r sk1mp]

Well i know your not going to want to do this but i think you need to just do a whole head job and get an xtremely good gasket. If your sis is going to be doing commute to school then she is going to need it to be reliable.

Once the head is off you need to check all cylinder walls and valves for damage and I know its a pain but check the rings and possibly water pump. The water pump may be bad causing weak flow. For the burning oil while the head is off check the plugs. Check for gunk and other nasty sh*t and then sum it all up by draining the oil slowly filtering it with a bucket and rag cover the open end of the bucket. Check for metal shavings and or anything that is not oil. Once its drained pull the pan and check for shavings there.

If you over heated then its possible that the bearings grinded a little or something else witch is causing a slight weakness in #1. report back after you get some of these things done with what you find ok

 

[badboyr6]

i'll do that! thanks guys for all your info, its helped a lot, and i hope to resolve this issue soon

 

[dsm'r sk1mp]

im gonna see if i rip the head off and see what i find. I don't really know how to check the rings, side wall clearances, wall wear, and check the stem seals and guides. what a mission..

how you check for wall damage and clearences is you look for lines going from the top of the block down to the top of the piston. the stem guides and seals you pretty much need a machine shop to do that.. make sure you get it totaly re-done with everything on the head.. even a bath ... the rings you will be able to check once the head is off the are at the top off the each cylinder and if they are bad you should easily be able to notice if they are

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

just follow those steps and i think u will find what you are looking for man

 

[16G1G4G63Talon]

while the head is off take the piston on cyl.1 to tdc compression stroke. take a feeler guage at .10 thousandths or around in that area and check for the correct clearance, if its anything above .10 or even .08 for that matter your getting blow-by

 

[badboyr6]

thanks a mil guys!

 

[TotalEclipse21]

I, personally, would just buy another head off a 4g64... considering the car is a gs spyder, unless its a 420a stroked or bored over and swapped into the car. But like I said just buy a new head, it may not be the mechanically incline way but its the easiest. Thats if your sure its only the head.

 

[BogusSVO]

dose it blow blue smoke all the time your driving it? or just off idle at stop lights?

with the low tention rings used today, over heating can take the tention out of the rings and they will not scrape the cyl wall well causing blue smoke all the time.

if its just on start up and just off idle at long stop lights, it could be the seals got cut when the shop installed them, or the guides are wore out and the seals just will not fix the problem

 

[badboyr6]

well guys, update, i finally got the head off, and took it to the machine shop, the guy looked at it and told me most probably the rings are bad on the car. He is still going to check the head and the seals and pressure test it, to make sure nothing is out of the norm. if everything checks out, i will have to replace the rings and see how she runs. any tips are welcome!

 

[BogusSVO]

a quick way to check for bad rings with the head off, rotate the enging over so all the pistons are at mid stroke, and pour about an inch or so of oil on top of each piston, and over several hours see if they sta the same or if one goes down faster, that would be the one with bad rings.

also when you had the head at the shop the first time, did they resurface the head? if so how? if was a belt sander style, that could cause the issues you have now.

with the after compression test results, they seem all to be in range of the sta 10% low/high

the shop could have flubbed the install of the guide seals on the intake side of the head. and a bad resurface of the head could allow you to suckor blow water and/or oil across the HG