sputters, shakes a lil, and has no power

[josemuccino]

I have posted on other sites and no help. I have a 1995 Talon ESI non turbo with very little mods. (cold air intake, aftermarket exhaust, coil over racing suspension) I just bought this car 3 weeks ago and i knew there was something wrong with it when i bought it. previous owner told me he replaced the TPS, IAC, O2 sensor and a couple other things. he said it was running a lot worse that what it is now. The car will start fine, but run really rough. (sputters, shakes a lil, and has no power). Previous owner told me it needed a new ECU. I did some tests and had a mechanic come out to check it out with me. he said im running on 2 cylinders and its misfiring. i checked injectors and they work. checked for spark and theres plenty. i put new plugs in it just the other day. now heres the weird thing. it will run rough all the time, then sometimes i will shut the car off and restart it after a few seconds, and it runs fine. when it runs fine, i have power, and i check the injectors(by unplugging them one by one) and they are fine. so its running on 4 cylinders only half the time. Is that my PCM/ECU? any help would be greatly appreciated, i really like my dsm and have a lot of plans for it. i would like to get this fixed. i have done A LOT of research and it is giving me so many areas to look at, but it seems like its electrical. Also just to add my battery thats in it is very old. dash lights and headlights are very dim. could that cause anything? please help me guys..


Also to add, i been going to the car on and off and starting it and checking things as i go along, and half the time the injectors work, and half the time they don't. when they don't, i unplug the plug wire from the plug and i can see that the coil is sending spark. bunch of clicking sound, and when i put the boot near anything metal it sparks, then i checked resistance on the injectors and it checked out fine. I am so lost i don't know what to replace or what to look for now... PLEASE HELP!!!!!

 

[Sicotic]

Might wanna check the transistor pack or the coil pack. this happend on my 1g

 

[josemuccino]

thats what the mechanic said, but it seems to be getting spark. how would i check it other wise?

 

[Sicotic]

Im going to bet its the Transistor Pack it should be next to your coil pack, if it is bad it will run on 2 cylinders, just for experience.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Check your timing. If its off a tooth it will run like this.

 

[josemuccino]

How do i check my timing? and my transistor pack? i dont know where that is or what it looks like. the previous owner told me its the ocmputer, and that since the computer is bad it will act wierd and throw a bunch of codes. i did a turn key diagnostic and it gave me a camshaft sensor error, EVAP sensor, and a crank shaft/camshaft error, but that error also says timing belt loose or skipped. I want this fixed so badly, but the last shop i took it to told me i was loosing fuel pressure and that it was the pump. i replaced the pump and still same thing. so i dont trust the shops anymore. any other help would be great..thanx for everything so far....

 

[eeeewidner]

Im going to bet its the Transistor Pack it should be next to your coil pack, if it is bad it will run on 2 cylinders, just for experience.

The 420a engines don't use transistors like the 4g63's, instead they use crank and cam sensors. Change out the coil pack. It seems that it is breaking down....

 

[eeeewidner]

How do i check my timing? and my transistor pack? i dont know where that is or what it looks like. the previous owner told me its the ocmputer, and that since the computer is bad it will act wierd and throw a bunch of codes. i did a turn key diagnostic and it gave me a camshaft sensor error, EVAP sensor, and a crank shaft/camshaft error, but that error also says timing belt loose or skipped. I want this fixed so badly, but the last shop i took it to told me i was loosing fuel pressure and that it was the pump. i replaced the pump and still same thing. so i dont trust the shops anymore. any other help would be great..thanx for everything so far....

When a ecm goes out, you will loose your check engine light upon start-up, and alot of times you will not be able to communicate with the computer. Another thing to look into is the ignition switch. If you have a bad switch, you could be getting a lot of weird codes, they will make a car do funny things.

Since you have just purchased this car, do all the necessary maintenance of it, including the timing belt.

I would def agree with gsxsixteen, if your cam and crank corolection isn't correct, that could explain crank and cam sensor codes.....Timing belt may have jumped....but it will still fire on all four cylinders....

 

[josemuccino]

that makes sense..thanx for all the help guys. i will swap out coil pack, and will do full tune up including timing and give you guys update when done...

 

[GSXSixteenG]

To check timing, take the timing belt cover off, rotate until TDC and see if the timing marks are lined up.


Refer to this for more on a timing belt install. Timing Belt VFAQ

 

[97dark_angel]

you got to love our dsm's mine was misfiring at 4rpm in 2nd and sometimes in 3rd it wasn't running and sputtering it ended up that my cam shaft censer was bad, what kind of codes are you getting?

 

[josemuccino]

Update on whats going on. for new timing belt will cost over $400. so im waiting on that one. but i pulled the plugs out and checked them out and cylinders 2 and 4 are running lean..(white tips) and the other 2 were running fine. i checked for spark on cylinders 2 and 4 and they are getting plenty.i know this because i held the boot with plugin it while my brother cranked on it..bit the shit out of me......so so those cylinders arent getting fuel? am i right on this? would this cause misfires like crazy? I think im on the right track, atleast i hope so. I am still going to get a new timing belt installed but it wont drive like this to make it there, and if i force it, im sure ill screw something else up...any ideas? i can swap out the injectors myself, but timing i wont play with.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

You don't have to take the belt off to check the timing. Just take the cover off and make sure the timing marks are lined up when its a TDC. It def. should not cost you 400 for a timing belt job if a mechanic knows what he is doing.

 

[josemuccino]

As for the timing belt issue, i tried to rotate them but it wouldn't rotate, any trick to getting it to spin so i can check? also i found that 2 of my injectors are not feeding fuel. would a timing issue cause that? it doesn't seem to fit with the timing issue. and the shop i called said for parts and labor for the timing belt is 423 bucks. and the only part is the timing belt. but i have a friend thats going to fix it if its off. thanks for all your help guys. I am feeling better about my precious dsm being back on the road soon..will give update once i figure out how to spin the belt to see if its off...

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Put it in neutral and you should be able to rotate the engine with a ratchet and socket on the crank shaft pulley.

I'm not sure if the CAS and CPS work the same way in a n/t. If one was broke you would have neither no spark at all or no injector pulse at all. You wouldn't get only two injectors pulsing from a bad sensor. Maybe try to run some Seafoam and see if the injectors are clogged.

 

[josemuccino]

tried running cleaner through it and let it run and rev for like 30 mins.. still nothing. those injectors are pretty clogged if they are clogged. im just going to have them pulled out and cleaned, and tested..thanx for all the help. i will update when i clean the injectors. might pull them out tomorrow..

 

[96eclipzGsT]

I bet the timing is on when you check it. The problem is the timing belt broke before and bent the valves in the head. Then someone put a new timing belt on it cranked it up, realized what happened and sold it. Get a junkyard head or get some head work done. Usually around $450 in machine work

 

[josemuccino]

actually im pretty sure that the valves arent bent. the previous owner was honest about everything. he didnt want to sell it, but his wife made him. (i lucked out) also they plugs in it before i put new ones in didnt look like the ones that are in there now. meaning they looked as if it was getting fuel to all cylinders evenly. this injection problem just started after i replaced the fuel pump because the fuel pump was giving out on me because of a clogged fuel filter. something must of went into the lines when i changed it out and clogged up the injectors. before i changed the pump i checked the injectors and did the unplug test and they were all working. but thanx on the advise, i will ook into it just to be sure.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

Go rent a compression tester from auto zone and do a compression test to make sure maybe he didn't know. If the compression needs to be above 75 to fire. I bet there is two cylinders around 60.

 

[josemuccino]

ok so update. i checked all the injectors..2 were clogged. i unplugged the 2 good ones that were fine, and left the 2 bad ones plugged up and started the car. started really rough, had to keep pedaling the gas to keep it going. car had clean gas and fuel injection cleaner in it so i kept it going for a littlebit till i felt it was clearing up enough for me to run on all 4 cylinders. i shut car off. plugged the other 2 injectors back up and re started the car. it was running on all 4 cylinders again and it felt much smoother. i drove it around thinking it would run more cleaner through it and clear up even more but i was wrong, those 2 died on me again and it started running like shit once again. so i know those 2 injectors are my problem, but i dont know if its the injectors, or the relay, or the computer maybe giving out on me. all i know is those 2 cylinders are not running because its not getting fuel. any ideas? im thinking of just taking it to the shop and have them deal with it, but im scared they will tell me something is wrong, and then it doesnt fix my problem....Also i had above 1/4 tank in when i started, then when i did a lap around my parking lot, i was down below an 8th. why am i wasting so much gas when only 2 cylinders are using fuel?

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Injectors can be had pretty cheap. Just buy some used ones and pop them on and see if it fixes your problem, or if you know someone that has a n/t just swap injectors and see if it runs correct. Or you could always do what I do with advance auto and go buy some and if it doesn't fix your problem bring it back.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

Swap the injectors around on the fuel rail to see if the problem moves cylinders or stays. Then refer to posts above^^

 

[josemuccino]

i moved the injector plugs from cylinder 1 and 3 to 2 and 4. 2 and 4 beaing the bad ones. made no difference.i used a noid light to them, and its getting pulses. so its not the wiring. i took it to the shop and will find out tomorrow what my friend thinks. i didnt want to pull them out my self because the fuel rail is a pain to get to and i didnt want to screw anything up. if my firneds shop did it, it would be covered if they break anything...i will give update tomorrow on whats going on..thanx for all your help guys...you have pointed me in the proper direction.atleast i know what the issue is....

 

[josemuccino]

UPDATE....

spoke with the shop mechanic and he said there is no Mass Air Flow Sensor and that could cause alot of problems. Who ever put the cold air intake never hooked the sensor back up i guess. he is still checking everything in the car over....

 

[badabing33a]

HAHA WOW. After several times in removing my Intake, I made sure i plugged the wire up for the MAS. But once in a great wire i will forget and start it up. Right a way i know i forgot to plug it in when it runs like crap. If this still doesnt help, I would change your Crank Angle Sensor. I had a 420A in my Neon a few years back and had very similer problems. Its located in the back above the oil filter. I forget what size wrech/socket it was but check it out if your problem isnt fixed.