Smoking at idle, I'm thinking valve seals

[turboglenn]

Well, i replaced the vavle seals when i built the motor, but not having any feel to when they are seated i think i may have damaged one or 3 (one actually looked crooked but it wouldn't go on any other way, i'm thinking it is too crooked, but i didn't mind at the time because replacing stem seals again would be far easier than everything else i had to get done at the time)

The car smokes at idle but it takes a minute to start then the longer it idles the worse it smokes, and it's not consistant at all. sometimes more sometimes less, but it has only recently started this.

Everything in the motor is rebuilt as most should know from my other threads on this, but just wanting to confirm or get some thoughts on this. Since it only happens at idle or under good vacum i am lead to believe it's the stem seals. I"m probably going to replace them tomorrow, but before i do i thought i'd get some input from you guys/gals. I"m mainly looking for install tips on how to know when they are peoperly seated without putting too much force on which would damage them (like my one that was crooked, it went that way because of a slight tap from a small hammer on install)

Anyone ever install the seals incorrectly or have issues like this on a fresh build? I've searched and read but most threads were never resolved.

 

[kahl23]

Well I can't help you with the installation of the seals (check out the nice article on VFAQ), but before you do that, it couldn't hurt to check the compression of the cylinders. While your guess sounds right, it could also be the turbo. Before you do all that work, make sure things aren't in fact solid across the board.

 

[turboglenn]

Well, i've spent a good part of today checking things out, and i'm damn neart positive it's the valve seals, there wasn't a puke of oil from the turbo and it did not apear to be leaking any fluids, the PCV system was disconnected and still the smoke was intermitant and only at idle and under vacum, the longer you stay at idle the worse it gets.

They are only 25 bucks and i made a cool ass tool for the spring and retainer removal, and even for the seals them selves, i just have no real info on seating them properly... going to double check vfaq though

EDIT: VFAQ was about what i already knew, just slide em on.. there's just no "click" to tell you it's on good and i think I overdid a few of them using something to tap them on with. I'll just replace them

 

[kahl23]

Good luck!

 

[gsxtasy]

I just used the right sized deep socket and 'pressed' them on. Seemed to work well. I was gonna say, I also have the tool to do it, but sounds like you already have one!

 

[turboglenn]

well, i think i'm holding off a few days, it's too damn cold today to do this outside, plus it didnt' smoke the time i was out working on and tuning the car for the E85 map on the new setup.

Guess i'll just keep an eye on things and see how it goes.

 

[talon4show]

Anything happen with this? I too am having the same problem... Brand new motor, less then 20 miles on it. Runs great so the compression should be fine (i've had bad enough blow by to where it ran like crap). Turbo is fine and not leaking. Smokes a LOT at idle and deceleration (vacuum of course). Still smokes when giving it some gas but not much at all and then you stop and idle again and the bellowing smoke continues.

The seals are brand new but the person who put them on has never done in on a 4 cylinder head so I'm thinking install error.

 

[turboglenn]

YOu know, since i posted this, I went out and gave her a good romping for about a hlf hour straight, pulling to redline repeatedly and now it's stopped. It might have been a stuck ring.. I"m stumped at this point.

 

[soldave]

Did your smoking problem ever come back or was it just one of those things that came & went?

 

[pneumo]

Anyone ever install the seals incorrectly or have issues like this on a fresh build?

Since it was a fresh build, the smoke might have been from the piston rings. It usually takes a few hundred miles for them to bed-in and seal.
From what I've seen, bad valvestem seals will produce smoke for a few minutes after starting the engine.

 

[turboglenn]

Since it was a fresh build, the smoke might have been from the piston rings. It usually takes a few hundred miles for them to bed-in and seal.
From what I've seen, bad valvestem seals will produce smoke for a few minutes after starting the engine.

I think it actually ended up being a sticking ring, there was at least close to 1k miles on it at the time this started and i did my own variation of a moto-man style break in hitting 15psi at 3/4 throttle on the first run. I remembered that i have seen rings stick like this before and that was my only other thought. So, i decided that before i tore her apart i would take 'er out for a good flogging and see what happened, next thing you know there was no smoke. So, i'm guessing there was a stuck ring that just needed jarred loose. it was definitely oil smoke and there hasn't even been the slightest hint of oil smell since the day i took it out, hit 30 psi for a few good 3rd gear pulls and took it home I was very happy to say the least, after all the building and driving i had done when i made this post i was just not ready to tear into it again, thatnkfully i didn't have to

Guess i should mark it resolved and say that to the best of my knowledge a stuck ring was the culprit since the rings should ahve been well broken in by that time, especially consifdering i had run it under 15psi at least to 5k for the entire critical period. I think the spell when i started taking it easy on the motor is when it started smoking too.. hahha ,... ironic, but somehow so DSM-expected

 

[pneumo]

:sniff: another happy ending
I guess this is one more reason to use the motoman break-in style, eh?

 

[turboglenn]

:sniff: another happy ending
I guess this is one more reason to use the motoman break-in style, eh?

Yea, IMHO if anything about it was my fault, at this point I think it's that i didn't beat it quite hard enough during break-in. I say this because it took a good bit of 30 psi whomping to solve it, so there's something to it