slow spool

[yepes281]

So i put on my E316g about a couple months ago and i still cant figure out my problem. I have no boost leaks and no exhaust leaks. When i go WOT it slowly climbs up to 5-10 psi until i hit 5000 rpms then the boost continues to climb until i let off the gas, up to 27psi.

What can cause this?

Mods:
E316g
stock injectors
255 wally w/ fpr
3" exhaust all the way back

Logged fuel trims and their all close to 0 except the low fuel trim which is at 3, but i dont think its rich enough to cause slow spool.

 

[krkline2gdsm]

Whats your exhaust setup? What kind of manifold? Port work?

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

Is it an EBAY knock off or the real deal 16G. I have heard the knock off ones have slower spool but that is real bad. Is your intake air filter clogged?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

How are you doing your boost leak test? Do you have your MBC hooked up correctly? What all else have you checked? Sounds like a crappy turbo or huge leak.

 

[jrohner]

That just sounds like boost creep; real common with a 16g & free-flowing exhaust. I would recommend just getting the supporting mods to run high boost. Also, cams would probably lower the boost creep considerably.

 

[krkline2gdsm]

That just sounds like boost creep; real common with a 16g & free-flowing exhaust. I would recommend just getting the supporting mods to run high boost. Also, cams would probably lower the boost creep considerably.

I love the noob section...

Not even CLOSE to being boost creep. And even if it was, I boost creep all the time! I love it. Turbo sppols nice and quick with or without boost creep so your post is not only useless, but its irrelevant to this kids problem. Boost creep on stock fuel = fuel cut and he wouldnt even get to 20psi, nevermind 27. Offer advice when you only know what your talking about.

 

[jrohner]

I love the noob section...

Not even CLOSE to being boost creep. And even if it was, I boost creep all the time! I love it. Turbo sppols nice and quick with or without boost creep so your post is not only useless, but its irrelevant to this kids problem. Boost creep on stock fuel = fuel cut and he wouldnt even get to 20psi, nevermind 27. Offer advice when you only know what your talking about.

I love that someone with 30 posts is calling someone with 1400 posts (and like 10 DSM's) a 'noob'. Your bit about fuel cut has nothing to do with it either. Fuel cut is based 100% on airflow and nothing else. Higher RPMs would allow higher boost pressure before fuel cutting anyways; 27psi at 4 grand would be a lot higher airflow than 27psi at 6 grand.

My take on it is that he has the boost turned down REALLY low, and it CREEPS up. If this is the case, it would make my post relevant, and YOUR post the useless one.





Crank up the MBC and see if the boost is higher on the low end.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I love the noob section...

Not even CLOSE to being boost creep. And even if it was, I boost creep all the time! I love it. Turbo sppols nice and quick with or without boost creep so your post is not only useless, but its irrelevant to this kids problem. Boost creep on stock fuel = fuel cut and he wouldnt even get to 20psi, nevermind 27. Offer advice when you only know what your talking about.

And if you don't have anything to contribute to the thread don't post. Here are a few threads for the OP to read up on symptoms of slow spool.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/349237-slow-spool-low-boost.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/300167-slow-spool.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/278366-evoiii-16g-slow-spool.html

**With 1400 posts you should know better than to talk back and continue an off topic conversation**

 

[krkline2gdsm]

My take on it is that he has the boost turned down REALLY low, and it CREEPS up. If this is the case, it would make my post relevant, and YOUR post the useless one.

Crank up the MBC and see if the boost is higher on the low end. Do you actually have a boost controller, or is it hooked up like stock? If you don't have a boost controller, then I guarantee that it is indeed boost creep.[/QUOTE]


Your boost creep diagnosis is wrong, 110% wrong. Boost creep is caused by gases passing the hole for internal flapper to quickly causing the turbine wheel to spin faster!!!!!!!!!! FASSSTEEER!!!!!!!! This WILL NOT cause slower spool up times. Not even close.

I ran my 16g on a 10psi spring, no boost controller. I didnt have any spool up issues.

 

[jrohner]

What I'm saying, is if his boost is turned really low, it will creep up and will make it seem like it's spooling up slow, when it's really just that the boost is turned too low.


The first thing to try, would be to eliminate the MBC and run the hose from boost source directly to the wastegate. This will prove how much boost creep you're actually getting.

Next would be to hook the MBC back up and crank the boost up, probably 1/2 a round at a time. If the issue is just boost creep, the boost will be higher on the low end, with no change on the top end.

Report back your findings and we can go from there.

 

[krkline2gdsm]

And I understand what you said the first time! If your suggesting that his wastegate is opening at 10-15psi as he states because his boost controller is set to low then what he is seeing is boost creep up to 27psi, your nuts dude. 12-17psi boost creep? . No way! That flapper would be pegged open hard at it would not hold 27psi up to redilne with the flapper open. Its hard enough to even hold 27psi hard across the power band, nevermind saying boost creep alone is doing it for him.

I am trying to help him. I aksed a question and am waiting for a reply from him.

 

[thatblondechik]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/349237-slow-spool-low-boost.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/300167-slow-spool.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/278366-evoiii-16g-slow-spool.html

Thread solved.
OP- Many of the questions you might have about your Dizzum have most likely been asked before. This site is a wealth of information. Give it a search with a few keywords and I can promise you'll find more info than you know what to do with. Good luck!

 

[jrohner]

Boost creep has nothing to do with initial PSI, it will creep up to the same amount whether the boost is set to 5 or 25. If it creeps to 27, that's the lowest you can run at that specific RPM without doing modifications to reduce it. It's a 16G with 3" exhaust, what's new? We've seen it 1000 times on here before.

What he's describing sounds exactly like what I though when I first installed a Holset on my 1G. I thought "Holy crap this thing spools like crap". Pretty much nothing, until it hit over 25psi at 5 grand. All I did was crank in my MBC and it was fine, 25psi at 3500.

OP: Crank up your MBC and I'm confident you'll see that everything's fine other than some boost creep. The ONLY thing that could cause the spool to truely be as slow as you say it is, would be an exhaust/wastegate leak. A boost leak doesn't do anything that drastic.

 

[MrBoxx]

If everyone could calm down, maybe stop calling each other "noob", we could actually figure out the problem. This is really the only warning I'm giving in this thread before I delete every response and we can start from scratch.

 

[yepes281]

Ive read through the majority of almost all the slow spool threads. I dont have a MBC on, just the wastegate directly to the j pipe. And yea i was wondering could it be the wastegate? Could it be partially stuck open so it doesnt build boost until theres enough pressure to overcome the opening?

 

[jrohner]

Ive read through the majority of almost all the slow spool threads. I dont have a MBC on, just the wastegate directly to the j pipe. And yea i was wondering could it be the wastegate? Could it be partially stuck open so it doesnt build boost until theres enough pressure to overcome the opening?

There you go, just as I said -- you're starting out boosting at just wastegate pressure (varies, but that can be as low as 7), and it's creeping up. It's not that you're spooling slow, it's that you're running a really low amount of boost at low RPM and then it creeps up at the higher RPM.

Just get a cheapo boost controller and you'll be good to go. Even if you just hook the BCS (boost control solenoid) back up like stock, you should get more like 12-13 psi or so. You'll still creep, as a boost controller has nothing to do with that, but at least you'll have more boost sooner so you'll have some torque.

 

[yepes281]

Not exactly i had a boost controller on for a while and it made no difference.

Basicly this is how it goes:
2000-3000 rpms = 2-5 psi
3000-4500 rpms = 5-10 psi
4500-7000 rpms = 10-forever psi until fuel cut.

 

[jrohner]

Well did you try adjust the boost controller up?

You can pinch off the line to the wastegate with a Vicegrips to see if it really does spool slow or not. Don't do it though if you can't be careful enough to not get insane amounts of boost that may wreck stuff.


Is your wastegate flapper held shut tight? You may have to space the WGA with a couple washers to make the wastegate flapper seal shut.

 

[yepes281]

Il try that tomorow to see if builds boost faster.

How do i use washers as spacers?

 

[jrohner]

You put them behind where it mounts to the compressor. Just take the WGA arm off the wastegate flapper, if you have to pull against the WGA some to put it back on you should be fine.

 

[yepes281]

Okay so i plugged off the wastegate line and it did not make a difference at all.

 

[abaum565]

Check the vacuum line on the fpr and that it's hooked up correctly with no cracks or leaks. Also what is your fuel pressure set at? Also check the small oring on the top of the fuel pump, make sure it's not torn. Also you could post up a log of it happening? Did you verify that your timing marks all line up? Especially on the exhaust side.

How do your plugs look? Fuel trims should only come into play during closed loop operation, so under boost during a pull you are in open loop, and could be running rich. Doesn't look like you have a WB02. Not sure if that would cause that much lack of spool though.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Okay so i plugged off the wastegate line and it did not make a difference at all.

As in vaccuum no at all to the wastegate? IF so you just found out your problem. Either there wasnt a boost/vaccum source or a faulty(or stuck, kinda like what jhroner said) wastegate.

 

[jrohner]

Okay so i plugged off the wastegate line and it did not make a difference at all.

Then I would say either your wastegate flapper isn't sealing shut (not closed tight, or cracked really bad), you have a bad exhaust leak at the manifold, your WGA is shot, or your cam timing is way off. Pull on your wastegate actuator to see that it has a decent amount of spring pull to it. Next, run a line to it from an air compressor and see that it moves (don't give full pressure to it or you'll probably destroy it). You could also disconnect the WGA arm and see if it's even much worse.

 

[belize1334]

Check to make sure that the wg-actuator arm hasn't come off of the flapper arm. This would explain your symptoms perfectly. At low rpm your getting no boost cause the wg is just hanging open. At high rpm you're getting into the boost creep realm where 27psi isn't that uncommon on an unported evoiii with free flowing exhaust.