50 trim slow spool

[Streetsweeper21]

My 50 trim is spoolin 10psi at 4.5k. I only have a 10psi spring in my external wastegate off the manifold with no boost controller. Shouldnt it be spoolin 10psi way b4 4.5k? I read threads with people spoolin 20psi at 3800k. If I get a 20psi spring with a boost controller would spool be quicker since it requires more psi before it opens. I know when I had a 16g internal gated it spooled 20spi no problem but also the arm was adjusted really rtght to keep the flapper shut longer. When I take off the hose to the wastegate it boost only a couple pounds more. When I did the same with the 16g it would boost past 20psi almost instantly.

 

[DSM_PWR]

other than exhaust leaks, yes that 10lb spring is the reason for slow spool. I have a 15lb internal spring and if i just run a vacuum line its slow but when i put on a boost controller its pretty damn quick

 

[1992awdlaser]

I would have to say it has to be the spring since it doesn't create a lot more boost with no line going to it.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

Thanks alot im going to get the metal muilt-layer manifold gasket and get a boost controller if that doesnt help than im going to change the spring. Which I shouldnt have to because I ordered a 20psi spring from the begining from SBR and they sent a 10psi. Ill post back on updates

 

[DSM_PWR]

I would go with a felpro, its more forgiving since the MLS gaskets have a better chance of leaks unless your 100% sure your head and manifold are as flat as a board.

...Which I shouldnt have to because I ordered a 20psi spring from the begining from SBR and they sent a 10psi

Thats SBR for ya

 

[Streetsweeper21]

I would go with a felpro, its more forgiving since the MLS gaskets have a better chance of leaks unless your 100% sure your head and manifold are as flat as a board.



Thats SBR for ya

I have a felpro now and its leakin from one corner. The head is a brand new head and the manifold is a tubluar manifold new also. <a href="http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg78/Lineitup516/?action=view&current=ninjabday021.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg78/Lineitup516/ninjabday021.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[silver bullit]

Fix the pre turbo exhaust leaks, and do a boost leak test.

 

[DSM_PWR]

hmm.... you shouldnt really have any problem, unless your studs arent threading in all the way. If your getting leaks with the soft felpro, your going to get more leaks from a thin hard MLS, maybe torque/tighten the corner stud where the leak is coming from.

Can you feel air coming out the corner at idle?

 

[GnArKiLL70]

i dont know man... i had an exhaust leak with the soft felpro's blowing out then went mls and no problems... mls is your friend!

 

[1992awdlaser]

FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain Done

 

[Streetsweeper21]

hmm.... you shouldnt really have any problem, unless your studs arent threading in all the way. If your getting leaks with the soft felpro, your going to get more leaks from a thin hard MLS, maybe torque/tighten the corner stud where the leak is coming from.

Can you feel air coming out the corner at idle?

Yes at idle I can feel air comin out the top left corner. When I rev the engine it goes away. Tomorrow im ordering a boost controller and MLS. I will post updates Thanks for the help!!!!

 

[Killa_dsm]

Is that a ebay knock off wastegate? If so pull it off to see if the wastegate is sealing all the way. My buddy had a knock off wastegate for his honda and it wouldnt seal right. Might as well check that while your at it.

 

[chris712vt]

other than exhaust leaks, yes that 10lb spring is the reason for slow spool. I have a 15lb internal spring and if i just run a vacuum line its slow but when i put on a boost controller its pretty damn quick

This confuses me, how would using an mbc set to 15psi allow the boost to build any faster than a 15psi wastegate spring alone? Either way, the boost pressure builds until it's pressure overcomes the spring pressure. If the mbc is at 15psi, and the wastegate spring is 15psi, how would one build faster than the other?

This interests me as I'm about to trade my 7.5psi spring for a 15psi spring, and I had no intention of getting a boost controller. But I wouldn't mind having better spool if somehow it made a difference.

 

[Crazyjoker77]

This confuses me, how would using an mbc set to 15psi allow the boost to build any faster than a 15psi wastegate spring alone? Either way, the boost pressure builds until it's pressure overcomes the spring pressure. If the mbc is at 15psi, and the wastegate spring is 15psi, how would one build faster than the other?

This interests me as I'm about to trade my 7.5psi spring for a 15psi spring, and I had no intention of getting a boost controller. But I wouldn't mind having better spool if somehow it made a difference.

I too have always wondered about this but i know with my car i do get slightly better spool with the boost controler turned up (with the MBC set at 17psi i get full spool at about 4000rpm with it cranked up to 22psi its around 3800-3900)(on a 50trim internally gated with a 16psi actuator spring)

and again i know it makes no sense and even asked one of the professors when i was going to university and he didnt have any real answer for it. But in fact my car does it reliably everytime...

but also along those lines the increase in spool might be caused just by the fact of running more boost and you may see better spool just switching to the stronger spring...

 

[chris712vt]

the only logical reason I can come up with is say you've got a 7.5psi spring. yes, it requires 7.5 psi to compress the spring and open the wastegate... but would say 4 or 5 psi start to open it ever so slightly, thus reducing the spool? picture a 15psi spring now, it won't have a chance at budging with only 4 or 5psi built up I doubt, and by the time you do have enough boost to maybe make the spring start to compress, you've got plenty of boost creating a strong quick spool.

I don't know if that's easy to follow or not, I know what I'm thinking. Whatever, it still doesn't make much sense. Perhaps the difference in spring strength may make a difference. But the difference between a wastegate spring verse a boost controller at the same psi setting shouldn't affect it.

 

[1992awdlaser]

The mbc will limit the air that gets to the wastegate. This will cause the wastegate to start pening later, which will cause the turbo to spool slightly faster.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

Is that a ebay knock off wastegate? If so pull it off to see if the wastegate is sealing all the way. My buddy had a knock off wastegate for his honda and it wouldnt seal right. Might as well check that while your at it.

No its a Tial but ya a couple people mention about the valve ring. It looks pretty in and flush I think ima take it off and put it back on and see if it makes a difference. I been reading about boost controllers and they all say reduce spool and elminates the need to change the wastegate spring.

 

[turboglenn]

The reason te wastegate spring is causing this is that it begines to open under the 10psi and then is fully open by 10. The reason an MBC (spring type anyway) will help spool is that the spring will keep ANY air from getting to the wastegate untill the preset boost pressure (say 15 psi) is reached, then the call and spring MBC lets the air get to the wastegate only AFTER it's reached it's determined level thus opening the gate at the last second instead of keeping some constant air pressure on it..

Bleeder style MBC's will not help spool at all, only hallman (ball & spring) or aN EBC can help spool up.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

I just did a boost leak test and air is comin out valve cover breather and it isnt from the pcv because I took it off and did the test over what could that be? It shouldnt be any air getting into the valve cover right? When I took the oil cap off while doing the test oil splattered out. Should I put the stock hose back on from the valve cover and run it back to the intake.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I just did a boost leak test and air is going to the crankcase and it isnt from the pcv because I took it off and did the test over what could that be? It shouldnt be any air getting into the valve cover right? When I took the oil cap off while doing the test oil splattered out. Should I put the stock hose back on from the valve cover and run it back to the intake.

Thats a tonne of air pressure in the crankcase if it splattered oil at you when you removed the cap. Just for safety, always boost leak test with the oil cap off, as per Oldman's recommendations.

Are you using compressed air? A bike pump? An electric pump?
Where are you putting the tester? Turbo inlet? Intercooler inlet? Throttle body?

If you're using your turbo inlet to test, and you're getting that much air into the crankcase, it is possible that your turbo seals are in questionable shape.

A compression test wouldn't hurt either, in case the leak is right through the throttle body and then the head is letting it into the crankcase.

And yes, absolutely get rid of that dinky air filter on your valve cover's breather port and plumb the stock hose back to the intake pipe with a G2 filter inline. <$6 at any Napa, Kragen, Autozone etc..

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/229338-stupid-pcv-question.html
You might find this an interesting read. I highly recommend it.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

Im usin a compressor from the turbo inlet the turbo is pretty new. I guess I should try to redue the test from the Upper intercooler pipe and see if it does the same thing. The motor freshly rebuilt with about 1,300 miles. The EGR vavle I have a hose going to both nipples so its bypassed. Could it be stuck open or somethin like that? I got 150psi in all 4 cylinders with motor being 100% cold

 

[Streetsweeper21]

So I got a 4 inch Forced Performance intake, and a used Hallman boost pro controller. I would think the car would run like a charm but the car is acting the same way is was when I run no line to the wastegate. Slow spool and doesnt spool 20psi until like 6.5k. Another thing I turned the boost controller all the way down and it wont go down. On my bleeder MBC the boost goes up and down fine. Next im going with changing the wastegate spring to a stronger one. Also I thought the hallman boost controller wouldnt have any holes but it does right here?

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[PieEyedPiper]

Compressions numbers on a cold engine are relatively meaningless. Try a complete boost leak test and a proper compression test just so we can cross them off the list.