Shifting problems

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

I've been fighting with this problem of getting my clutch to completely disengage so that I can shift into gears for over a year now. Every time I've thought it was fixed it always seems to come back. Problem is from a stop a lot of times it's next to impossible to shift into any gear at all without pumping the clutch pedal numerous times. So far I've replaced the master and slave cylinder, clutch, tob, the clutch pedal and lever, and I've bled the system about 5 times now. I checked for leaks and there are none and I never lose any fluid. The master cylinder is adjusted all the way out to the last thread. I have an ACT2100 in now which shouldn't need a longer slave cylinder rod from what I understand. After I got all the parts replaced and bled the system it shifted great for that first drive. It shifted like the car was new, but this was short lived and after about 20 minutes of driving it started getting really hard to shift again to the point of nearly being undriveable. I went home and bled it again, drove it and it did the same thing. Since then the clutch rarely shifts as well as it did for the few minutes after each of the first two times I bled it, but it also doesn't get QUITE as bad after driving for awhile. The weirdest thing I noticed is that after driving on the highway for awhile, maybe 10-15 minutes, half the time it'll start shifting absolutely perfect for awhile. This doesn't always happen, but it does happen quite a bit. Then after driving around in the city for awhile it starts shifting like crap again. I'm pretty sure that there’s still got to be air in the lines, but I just don't know how after how many times I've bled the system. I've even had other people try to bleed it like my dad and one of the mechanics that works at the shop he works at. I'm kind of lost as to why this has been such a problem, but any ideas would be great.

 

[turbotopher]

I have also experinced that same problem. Luckly after bleeding mine tons of times the clutch stoped having to be pumped. The only problem I have now is sometimes getting into reverse and very rarley 1st it grinds a bit. I think it has to due with the clutch not engaging completley. Before I think I was having ur problem and it wasnt disingaging completley. If bleeding didnt work for ya, maybe clutch pedal ajustment? No idea if that would help but i think im gonna try it and maybe it could be something for you to look into to maybe help fix your problem...

If you ever do find a soulion, PM me. I would be very intrested to know how you fixed it. Thanks, and good luck!

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

I've already got mine adjusted all the way out to the last thread. Might try and bleed it once again this weekend just for the hell of it, but I'm pretty doubtful that it'll end up doing much.

 

[leet]

Either your hydraulics or leaking, or you need to shim the pivot ball.

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

There are no leaks at all, checked that very thoroughly. I've thought about shimming the pivot ball, but if that was the problem wouldn't I always have problems shifting? The reason I've been thinking I'm not getting all the air out of the lines is because of how sometimes it gets better and shifts perfect for awhile and how if I pump the clutch it will shift fine. Will it go between shifting perfect and shifting like crap randomly from the pivot ball? I was under the impression that if the pivot ball was the problem it would always shift the same. Thanks for the help guys, hopefully this will be fixed sometime soon.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by TalonTSi-AWD91
The master cylinder is adjusted all the way out to the last thread.

There's your problem.


http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

Haven't had much time lately, but I finally looked at it some more today. I don't think it's the flywheel, or hope it's not at least. This problem was here before my clutch install with the original flywheel, then after I replaced the clutch the flywheel was resurfaced to 0.610" and it still did the same thing. I looked tonight and the fork doesn't even hit the bell housing stop. The fork sits right in the middle when released like it should though. I really think that I may have got a bad master cylinder when I replaced mine. Mine was leaking and after I replaced it nothing changed in shifting. If this doesn't work, is it still possible that the flywheel is the problem? I don't know very much about transmissions, I would just think that since the slave cylinder isn't pushing the clutch fork to the bell housing stop it's a problem at or before the slave cylinder. Would that be correct to assume with everything I've said so far?

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

This is getting annoying now. I just bled the clutch one more time just for the hell of it since I was under there and had everything there and ready to do it. I go to back it out of the garage after I'm done to park it in the drive way and guess what happens again? It's shifting perfect and the clutch pedal feels much lighter. I'm sure this will last a good 30-60 minutes of driving before it goes back to shifting like crap, but I will not know until tonight when I go to work. I guess I can just hope that for some reason this time it stays working, but I'm pretty doubtful at this point. Either way, I'll post whatever it decides to do.

 

[leet]

It still sounds like you either are not getting all the air out, or you have a leak. I'm assuming you've checked under the dash to see if the master cylinder leaks. Just keep looking til you find it.

Get a rebuild kit for the master cylinder. If you don't know what kind of condition it is in, rebuild it.

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

I just put that master cylinder in around October I believe. I did check it earlier tonight and there's no fluid on the rod. I'm not going to know for sure until later on tonight, but if shifting starts getting bad again I'm going to just take the master cylinder back and get a new one again. Maybe I just still had air in my lines though and this was the last of it hopefully. Have you ever had or heard of a master cylinder that was bad and letting air into the lines without fluid leaking on the rod? I'm never losing any fluid at all, so either air is getting in somehow or there's just been TONS of air in there that has been taking forever to bleed out.

 

[wortdog]

How's your clutch pedal linkage? (believe that's what Defiant was getting at)

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch_pedal_assembly.htm

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

It's all brand new and working perfect. No play at all in it, the master cylinder rod starts moving as soon as you press the pedal and it's up as high as it needs to be. I'm going to try another master cylinder tomorrow probably. On my way home from work it was shifting pretty crunchy again, but not grinding.

 

[Defiant]

Your clutch pedal pushrod is adjusted out too far, and you're blocking the bleed orifice. Adjust the pushrod so that the engagement isn't so high.

 

[xtreme-gsx]

Had the same problem on both of my DSMs (GST spyder & GSX)....i replaced the master cylinder push rod and problem solved. Double check you master cylinder rod, it might be slightly bent. Mitsubishi changed the design of the push rod. I hope that helps.

Mitsubishi name/part number for that item:

Damper Push Rod kit
MB 5555361

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

Well I tried adjusting the master cylinder rod back in and bleeding it and I ended up trying another new master cylinder, neither worked. I think I'm going to end up dropping the tranny either tonight or tomorrow and see what I find there.

 

[noreaga0221]

when you bleed the system, did you push the slave in with the bleeder open to bleed the slaave itself? also check your trans fluid level. maybe go ahead and change it.

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

Originally posted by noreaga0221
when you bleed the system, did you push the slave in with the bleeder open to bleed the slaave itself? also check your trans fluid level. maybe go ahead and change it.

Yep, I did all of that. I put some Pennzoil Synchromesh in a few months ago since Defiant and many others seem to think pretty highly of it. I also did check to make sure it was full a few days ago and it was.

 

[frontdriver]

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch.htm

I went through this with 1 bent and two broken clutch forks after installing a 2600 ACT on my son's '91 Tsi AWD. New master and slave cylinders. Braided steel line. 1/4" added to slave cylinder rod. Nothing worked. Inserted a lock washer under the pivot ball and, HOLY SH*T, what a difference. It had been bottoming out against the stop "inside" the tranny all along and I didn't know it. Step dim. was right on flywheel. I've heard of people automatically installing the washer at clutch replacement every time. If you notice, most master cyl. adjustments are usually near the end of the threads as opposed to closer to the beginning on DSM's so even if you didn't need the washer you probably still have plenty of room to adjust.

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

Well last week I dropped the tranny and put a washer under the pivot ball. I still haven't been able to actually turn the car on and make sure it shifts fine because of other work I've been doing on the car, but the clutch pedal feels MUCH better. You can finally feel when it disengages all the way now so I'm pretty confident that the problem is fixed. I thought it was supposed to be the pivot ball itself that would wear down though? On mine it was where the pivot ball goes in the clutch fork that was wearing away. I made sure to put some grease on it, so hopefully that'll help because it looked like it had been pretty dry for awhile. I'll post back tomorrow and say for sure if it worked or not, but I'm sure it did. Thanks for the help everybody.

 

[TalonTSi-AWD91]

The car has been shifting great for two days now, thanks again everyone.

 

[frontdriver]

cool!