SBR 3500 Clutch not disengaging

[thekyguy11]

I have just finished doing a complete build up of my 1996 Talon Tsi. The only thing preventing me from driving my car is the clutch not disengaging. I installed a brand new SBR 3500 clutch on a Fidanza 8lb aluminum flywheel. I have already removed the transmission to inspect the new OEM TOB, only to find its just fine. I reinstalled the transmission hoping that maybe I missed something with the hydrolics. I've read many different solutions, but I dont really have the luxury of time right now. I've tried adjusting the clutch, bleeding the hydrolic system, and putting a nut between pushrod on the slave cylinder and the release arm. Still everytime I start the motor it wont go into any gear and just grinds away, and when the car is jacked up the wheels spin while the car is cranking, even with the clutch pedal mashed to the floor.

How do I test if the master cylinder is good? It seems ok, the release arm moves, I figured if a master or slave cylinder was bad, the release arm would slowly move back without releasing the clutch pedal.

How do I know if I am going to have to pull the GD transmission and shim the fulcrum? Or put a shim between the flywheel and crank and use longer bolts?

Should I eliminate the restrictor thingy between the master and slave cylinders? If I got a braided clutch line, does it do this already (along with preventing a swelling rubber line)?

This is driving me nuts I just want to drive my baby before I pull all the hair out of my head!!!

 

[v8s_are_slow]

have you tried adjusting the clutch to where the rod almost comes out of the pedal? gotta make sure you're adjusting it in the right direction for starters. how was the clutch pedal before the install of the new clutch? if the slave cylinder was bad, you'd probably see some brake fluid dripping out of it. take off the boot and check to see if it's soaking wet or if it's dry. as for the master cylinder, a lot of times, the master cylinder will leak fluid inside the car by the pedal. may be a lil damp.

also, during the clutch install, you didn't break loose any of the clutch lines did you? i ask since you're bleeding the system. and exactly how did ya bleed the system? should be pushing the pedal to the floor about 8-10 times and then to the floor and hold it there while someone breaks open the valve on the slave cylinder to relieve the air. doing this until just straight fluid and no air comes out. not tryin to make ya look dumb but you'd be surprised how many people i know that bleed the system incorrectly so just covering it all.

unless it was worn pretty badly, i doubt you'd need to pull the tranny and do any shimming.

another thing, if that all works fine and dandy, try pushing the pedal to the floor and letting off. see if you can reach down with your hand and pull the pedal up any further. if you can, the pedal assembly has gone bad (assuming you have a 1g. i dunno cause you have nothing listed on your profile).

a braided clutch line is nice but doubt it's gonna be the problem here. it'd have to swell an extreme amount to keep you from being able to disengage the clutch. check this stuff though and then get back to us and can go from there if that doesn't fix it.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

How much torque did you apply the the pressure plate bolts? Does the PP move towards the flywheel at all when you push the clutch pedal down?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

How much torque did you apply the the pressure plate bolts? Does the PP move towards the flywheel at all when you push the clutch pedal down?

what??? how's he gonna know if the pressure plate moves towards the flywheel when pressing the clutch pedal down? wondering what you're talking about cause he's obviously not gonna be able to see the thing with the tranny bolted up

i could be misreading your post though. i dunno.

 

[thekyguy11]

PP torqued to spec with torque wrench. How do I tell if the PP is moving with the tranny installed? I can see the release arm is moving back and forth, if that's what you mean.

Yes, I have bled the system as you said, I'll have to check for leaks around both cylinders. When I recieved the car, it was in a million pieces, an unfinished project, so I dont know how the clutch was before. I purchased the clutch kit and flywheel, so I know those are new.

Has anyone had any experience removing the little cylinder between the master and slave cylinders????

 

[v8s_are_slow]

PP torqued to spec with torque wrench. How do I tell if the PP is moving with the tranny installed? I can see the release arm is moving back and forth, if that's what you mean.

Yes, I have bled the system as you said, I'll have to check for leaks around both cylinders. When I recieved the car, it was in a million pieces, an unfinished project, so I dont know how the clutch was before. I purchased the clutch kit and flywheel, so I know those are new.

Has anyone had any experience removing the little cylinder between the master and slave cylinders????

no, you can't see the pressure plate moving. yes you can see the clutch fork move, pressure plate, no. so i dunno what he's talking about there. unless ya drill a hole in the side of the tranny or something to get a look.

but anyway, if you just did a simple clutch swap, there shouldn't have been any reason to break open the clutch lines. check the bell housing bolts as well and make sure they're tight. but check for leaks as well. kinda hard to tell ya more for now.

 

[thekyguy11]

I agree, there is no reason to open the hydrolic lines, but the previous owner already did that, rather than removing the slave cylinder. I was told by SBR that if the adjustment is shortened up at the pedal, then the system bled, last adjust the rod all the way out, this is supposed to help. I havnt tried that yet, but I dont see what that's going to do that the 1/4 in thick nut (that I put between the push rod and the release arm) didnt do. Plus, I already adjusted the rod at the pedal once, and the pedal pressure was insane at the bottom of the pedal travel.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Pull off the inspection boot that surrounds the clutch fork on the tranny. Get flashlight, and have somebody push the clutch pedal down. As the clutch fork pushes against the fingers on the pressure plate, watch to see if the PP moves towards the flywheel at all, pushing itself further onto the retaining bolts or studs.

When I isntalled my 3500, I torqued the PP to stock torque specs, and the clutch would not disengage.... I noticed the PP was moving a little when the clutch pedal was depressed, so I removed the tranny and tightened the nuts on the PP a bit more.
Clutch now disengages without a problem.

 

[4zdinduction]

My car has been down all summer because I couldnt get my 3500 to disengage. Now it is just sitting there until I can find the time and nerve to attack the project again. If you get it fixed, please let me know your solution...I have tried everything.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

What Is The Flywheel Stepped To? What Did You Tell The Machinist To Cut The Flywheel Down To?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

My car has been down all summer because I couldnt get my 3500 to disengage. Now it is just sitting there until I can find the time and nerve to attack the project again. If you get it fixed, please let me know your solution...I have tried everything.

Fix your pedal assembly and/or step the flywheel to the correct height.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

if he's using a fidanza flywheel it should already be correct at .610 unless there's some other way to fix it that i'm not aware/thinkin of. being that i was dumb enough to not think about looking thru where the clutch fork goes thru to look at the pp. sorry, i was a dumb@$$.

 

[thekyguy11]

hmm, sounds like a very good way to inspect what is going on inside the bell housing, why didnt I think of that?. Could very well be the best bit of advice I have gotten yet on this thing.

I called fidanza, they said all their flywheels are machined to factory specs and inspected three times before being shipped out, and the guy insisted the problem was probably not the flywheel.

At this point I really dont want to have to pull the tranny again, but if I know pulling it will lead to a definate solution, then I say hand me my tools!!!

Thanks for the info so far, I will post results as soon as I get a chance to check it out.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

remember to check for leaks. also too, i've seen where the wire that holds the throwout bearing to the clutch fork has broken. if that happens, you'll get nothing. of course you'd have to pull the tranny.

 

[thekyguy11]

allright, I think I got it fixed now!!!!!!!!!!!! As 1990EclipseGSX said to do, I removed the boot and inspected the movement of the PP. As he suspected, the PP was moving towards the flywhell, indicating that the PP bolts were not tight enough. Then I read this...

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

and read at the bottom about a way to test if the fulcrum needed to be shimmed. As it turned out, my fulcrum is worn (even though it looked fine) and I added about a 1mm thick washer behind it. This seemed to put the relase arm in the center of the hole in the trans.

Now, the pedal pressure feels much better!!! Light and consistent as hell. I havnt ran the car yet, but I turned it over and the wheels were not spinning this time with the clutch in.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

well, glad ya got it fixed. now let us now how that clutch works when ya get it broken in.

 

[MNGSX]

Its a good idea to tighten in a diagonal pattern like a lug nut pattern.. The plate will seat on the flywheel all the way down that way.... This wont happen then.

As for the clutch
http://www.teamrip.com/clutch adjustment.html