running to rich wont start!

[M1L3S]

i just bought the car, its my summer project, it has a eprom ecu, gm maft and box running version 1.3, i can not get it to start. itz running crazy rich, it would shoot white smoke from engine bay, then black from tail pipe. i removed turbo set up (took off mani and everything down to the dump tube) now i only get black smoke comming from the engine bay (mani is off) its getting too much fuel. I turned maft box to zero, disconnected ecu. car is getting spark, wants to kick over, but is getting flooded out, 636cc injectors, unsure of pump, im thinking i need a aftermarket fpr! car was bought as project has amazing list of aftermarket parts for what i paid for it, but its turning into a head ach!!!

 

[viridionplague]

unless im wrong black smoke is usually burning oil not running rich. your rings or a piston might be shot.

also the car is not going to run right without one of the manifolds.

i know compression tests are done at full temp but you should do one anyways to make sure you have compression at startup.

 

[travs92vr4]

unless im wrong black smoke is usually burning oil not running rich. your rings or a piston might be shot.

also the car is not going to run right without one of the manifolds.

i know compression tests are done at full temp but you should do one anyways to make sure you have compression at startup.

"unless im wrong black smoke is usually burning oil not running rich. your rings or a piston might be shot."""

Black is fuel. Blue is oil. White / Gray is coolant.

 

[M1L3S]

I have been digging around threads and forums and can't find any information. I know white is coolant, black fuel, and white with blue tint is oil. Once I removed turbo the white smoke went away (bad seal in turbo?) But I don't understand the white smoke because the turbo didn't fire up. I removed it just to be safe. I know I should have the mani on atleast, but I'm trying to figure my top end out before I do bottom end (replacing all exhaust gaskets). The car has zero rust (rare thing to find in mn). I just don't understand what's going on! Has compression, has spark, has fuel(hell of a lot of it) . I think I need a afpr. Because there's no way to turn down or adjust stock fuel pressure right ?

 

[viridionplague]

the maft should be set to send 13-20% less fuel as the injectors are larger.

also the issues with my recent fuel related non start (with compression, spark and, fuel)was a bad ecu. pop the cover and check it out. any damage should be fairly obvious. ive got a 1g so i dont know if the ecu thing is as common.

you will not need an aftermarket fpr unless you have a walbro 255 or larger but even without the fpr you should be able to start the car. the issue with the fpr is not to much pressure but the ability of the stock fpr to hold pressure and not leak gas back to the tank.

 

[M1L3S]

So your thinking a faulty ecu ? It's a Eprom. I pulled ecu and it sounded like it was set better(when cranking). I have a extremely stupid question, but if the ecu is pulled will there be no spark ? I pulled ecu took off cover I didn't see anything melted or smell anything that would indicate burnt or melted components. I'm getting frustrated! Lol 3rd day of working on it with no change. How do I set it to that percentage? Also the wideband is Maxing out on rich setting its saying its running crazy rich!

 

[viridionplague]

your going to need this guy to set your maft.
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38&d=1093665085

stock injector size is 450 so your injectors are 30% larger than stock

the ecu was more of a guess. as recently i had an issue with cylinder 3 not firing. it was getting fuel but the fuel injector circuit in the ecu was damaged.

you will not get spark without the ecu

 

[dalesocks]

Why don't you try removing the injector connections and try to start it with starting fluid, if that don't help do a compression/leak down test. You might have other problems.

 

[Chaosweaver]

Rule # 1: Never buy a project car, make sure it at least runs before the purchase.


Setup the MAFT again, you might be flooding the cylinders since its turned to 0. I'm running my car on 550s, a Walbro 255 with a stock 1G FPR, I run extremely rich but the car starts right up.

Check that the firing order is correct and also check the transistor, you might not be getting enough of a charge to fully ignite the air/fuel mixture. Check the intercooler and the piping as well, maybe you have an extremely bad boost leak. A compression test would also be a good idea.

Do you have an O2 sensor hooked up? Even though the car will run without it, its best to have one hooked up.

 

[MY1GDSM]

i just bought the car, its my summer project, it has a eprom ecu

Is this car a 99?

 

[M1L3S]

i've had worse projects that ive gotten running! .......I traded a guy my old bike for the car (which was a project also, i love having something to tinker with ). worse case ill part out, but the firing order is correct,

the guy before me had the wires on wrong, he had them on from left to right on the head and on the cap from left to right.(maybe that caused some damage)

The car is a 99

im thinking its just the maft and ecu clashing and needing to be tuned

there is a long rectangle where im guessing the data logger once was on the inside passanger center panel.

it has compression

i jump it every time i try to start it.

the car was sitting for a few months before i got it. with no gas in it, bone dry. (maybe fried the pump, but why would it be getting gas now if that was the case?)


it wants to start, i can tell! she kicks over and will catch for a second then flood out. its just getting way too much fuel. thats the only problem thus far im having, everything else seems to be in order. i did the spark test with the screwdriver and checking for arc, placed all spark plugs on wires and put in the air and saw the spark,

its not a matter of spark or compression that im dealing with, it just seems like im getting 10x the fuel that i need........

what things should i look for in a faulty ecu or maft?

 

[travs92vr4]

I wouldn't jump at the pump if your getting too much fuel. I would say tune, ecu, or maf first. Double check your GM maft settings first. Just sounds like you have the wrong settings personally.

 

[M1L3S]

I wouldn't jump at the pump if your getting too much fuel. I would say tune, ecu, or maf first. Double check your GM maft settings first. Just sounds like you have the wrong settings personally.

Thats what im thinking may be the issue. im going out in the garage now, ill keep you guys updated. thank you for all the replies so fast btw

what exactly does this mean?

3 OFF for NO Fuel Cut Limiter, ON to PREVENT FUEL CUT
4 OFF for Flat AUX fuel control, ON for Contoured AUX fuel mode.

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38&d=1093665085

sorry if its a stupid question, please dont bash.......

 

[dsmvenge]

if you have a 95 emprom and a 99 cas sensor and the plug wires were swapped they were swaped like that for a reason.......

 

[M1L3S]

im trying to figure out how to lean it out through the box, personally i know nothing about tuning..... but it came with the car. so im just trying to learn and adapt .....

 

[dsmvenge]

swapplugwires [ECMTuning - wiki]

Dial it down to -30 set the fuel cut off. Read that wiki, and follow the guide provided for you.

 

[M1L3S]

if you have a 95 emprom and a 99 cas sensor and the plug wires were swapped they were swaped like that for a reason.......

can you elaborate on this? i have never heard of that? fromt of my ecu houseing says

MD312464
E2T61672
5221 E

 

[travs92vr4]

Thats what im thinking may be the issue. im going out in the garage now, ill keep you guys updated. thank you for all the replies so fast btw

what exactly does this mean?

3 OFF for NO Fuel Cut Limiter, ON to PREVENT FUEL CUT
4 OFF for Flat AUX fuel control, ON for Contoured AUX fuel mode.

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38&d=1093665085

sorry if its a stupid question, please dont bash.......

3 is for exactly what it says. I would put it ON to prevent fuel cut.

4 is for when you have an added fuel supply. ie nitrous, meth, propane, ect. I would turn it OFF, and not connect the purple wire.

 

[M1L3S]

swapplugwires [ECMTuning - wiki]

Dial it down to -30 set the fuel cut off. Read that wiki, and follow the guide provided for you.

i checked under the ecu wires in the car and 10 a nd 23 have not been switched so doing the wire switching(with the aprk plug wires) is all that needed to be done right? i understood it until i got to the bottom then it looks like it contradicted itself, there were just saying that you can also just switch out the wires at the ecu harness right? sorry if its a stupid question, rather ask a question get it right and look dumb then not ask and wonder why something broke or isnt working.....

 

[travs92vr4]

i checked under the ecu wires in the car and 10 a nd 23 have not been switched so doing the wire switching(with the aprk plug wires) is all that needed to be done right? i understood it until i got to the bottom then it looks like it contradicted itself, there were just saying that you can also just switch out the wires at the ecu harness right? sorry if its a stupid question, rather ask a question get it right and look dumb then not ask and wonder why something broke or isnt working.....

No you don't switch out the ecu harness wires. You splice into them so the new maf can see the computer and vise versa.

 

[Tyeler18]

I just skimmed the thread so this may have already been said, but have you checked to make sure your coolant temp sensor (ECT) is working? If it is faulty it defaults to -74F engine temps and floods the cylinders out because the ECU thinks its way cold.

 

[MY1GDSM]

can you elaborate on this? i have never heard of that? fromt of my ecu houseing says

MD312464
E2T61672
5221 E

use_ecmlink_in_98_99_dsm [ECMTuning - wiki]

In your case you need to swap the injector firing order as well since you don't have a way to click use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor not having DDsm/Ecmlink

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Also FYI the ECUflashing applies to you original 99 ECU not the one you have now...

You could have used it and got a lot farther out of the box then your setup now IMHO... .

 

[M1L3S]

use_ecmlink_in_98_99_dsm [ECMTuning - wiki]

In your case you need to swap the injector firing order as well since you don't have a way to click use non-95/96 style cam angle sensor not having DDsm/Ecmlink

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Also FYI the ECUflashing applies to you original 99 ECU not the one you have now...

You could have used it and got a lot farther out of the box then your setup now IMHO... .

okay, so all that needs to be done is switch spark plug order? thank you again for all the help guys, im sorry if i sound stupid or if im asking questions that are redondent .

I just skimmed the thread so this may have already been said, but have you checked to make sure your coolant temp sensor (ECT) is working? If it is faulty it defaults to -74F engine temps and floods the cylinders out because the ECU thinks its way cold.

right under the coolant fill cap there is the three sensors that i found, one runs to the turbo, one runs to the coolant part on the head, and then theres this small black one just floating in the engine bay, i tried looking up pictures to tell what it could be or conect too but its not showing anything as of yet, think thats the sensor causing my rich problem?

 

[MY1GDSM]

okay, so all that needs to be done is switch spark plug order?

No please re-ead what I said... .

You will also need to swap the wires for the 1&2, and 3&4 injectors

 

[viridionplague]

stupid question but where is your gm maf located? before the throttle body or before the turbo? and is it hooked up and plugged in?