RS49T Review: Questionable Quality

[pickens]

I was in the market for a turbo larger than my 16g. After coming across the RS49T at the sale price I was sold. With the 1 year no questions asked warranty , polished compressor cover, good spool characterisitics how could you pass up the deal compared to other comparable 50 trim or 20g turbos. Onto to the review:

I purchased the turbo w/ the internal wastegate option and the return oil line. After waiting nearly three weeks I was extremely happy when the turbo arrived. Upon first inspection, I noticed the wastegate flapper assembly had a lot of side-side play in it. However, it appeared it would still seal against the housing. Also, there was a little more shaft play than I was comfortable with, but not enough to cause any serious doubt. It just made me question the quality of the turbo itself. Installing the turbo was pretty straight forward. I didn't have to dent the water pipe at all. I did have to trim a little off the bottom of the fan support though, which took all of two minutes. I did have a problem w/ the oil return line matching up. The angle between the two hard pieces was to great for the rubber hose to overcome. I ended up hacking the lower half of my stock pipe and mating it with the upper half of the return line I purchased. $50 not well spent. Since I used half of the return line I purchased, a fair price would be $25

First Hard Drive: After driving around on the turbo for awhile to let it sort of break in and make sure I have no leaks, I put the pedal to floor from 3k rpm in 2nd gear and to my surprise found a very laggy turbo pulling me along. I reached full boost 20 psi by 5.5k. The top end was good though. So knowing that many others have spooled this size turbo much faster on a 2.0L I went through a diagnostic. Adjusted the wastegate actuator, leak tests, etc.

Second,Third, Fourth Drive: Each drive I was finding the same conclusions. No real boost til 5.5k rpm. Adjusting my boost controller had no effect whatsoever. The max boost at redline would only go to 22 psi no matter how much I cranked on the mbc. Playing with my afc also had no effect. I adjusted the wastegate arm as tight as it would go thinking that perhaps the flapper was not sealing. Still no luck. Finally, I decide the turbo is shot and I pull it off. However, after visually inspecting the turbo I didn't see any major signs that indicated it was shot. Then it hit me, the wastegate actuator itself must be broke. So I inspected the actuator and sure enough, I could pull the arm about 1/2" w/o trying hard at all. Night and day difference compared to my 16g wg actuator.

Re-install of the turbo: I re-installed the turbo and wired the the wastegate actuator shut using a clamp to make sure it would not open. As a precaution to my some what fresh motor, I added some vp 110 just in case I was right and the turbo decided to put out some decent boost for the first time. I punch it from 3k and bam! 20 psi at 4.5k, 25 psi in the next blink of an eye and I let off fast since I knew the boost was going to scream upwards of 30 psi since I had the flapper wired shut.

Problem solved right, wrong!: So I reinstall the wastegate actuator and ghetto rig a spacer so I can apply more preload to it. This was just going to be temporary until I got it replaced so I could drive around. I adjust the boost to run 20 psi, wash the car, armor the tires, and finally take the car out on the town. I get on it hard a few times before....I look in my rearview and see a trail of smoke. WTF. Scared it might be my head gasket, I limp the car a few blocks home. After running through diagnostics the engine seemed perfectly fine. And it should be since I just had it built with arp hardware about five months ago. I then notice the joint between the o2 housing and turbo is soaked in oil. Hmmm. Not good. I pull the turbo and guess what...its shot. Oil is pouring out of the turbine side and there was enough shaft play that it caused the blades to contact the housing. Bummer.


However, the few times the turbo shined, it pulled like a raped ape. I did one freeway pull in 3rd gear and I just about got scared. It never did break the tires loose in 2nd or 3rd though which must of been a testament to its young life.

So, I am going to return the turbo in hopes that I will recieve some outstanding customer service at this point because I am fed up with this entire experience so far from the wastegate failure, to misaligned oil return line, and to the pis-poor turbo build.

I will keep you guys posted on my outcomes. But right now, I question the quality of these turbos.

 

[RavenX]

Am sure you just got a bad turbo from the get go. Hopefully they will replace it with no questions asked. Ive heard top notch customer service from AGP if thats where you got it from. As for the spool time that all really depends on the mods you have but even with cams your supposed to be pulling 20psi no later than 4,000rpm and since you had wastegate issues that would be the culprit. Post back here whenever you get your new one i want to know if it gets fixed or not

 

[Terrorize]

me too!!!!! i was just in the same boat youre in i wanted to upgrade, so i got an rs60t, im putting it on this friday4/15/05, and hope i dont run into the b/s you ran into, but hey as long as customer service is great and they take care of it no questions asked everytime it happens then its just a big inconvinience

 

[GSX]

Installing the turbo was pretty straight forward. I didn't have to dent the water pipe at all. I did have to trim a little off the bottom of the fan support though, which took all of two minutes. I did have a problem w/ the oil return line matching up. The angle between the two hard pieces was to great for the rubber hose to overcome. I ended up hacking the lower half of my stock pipe and mating it with the upper half of the return line I purchased. $50 not well spent. Since I used half of the return line I purchased, a fair price would be $25

Having dealt with AGP on numerous occasions I am confident they will take care of you as I believe their customer service to be an industry best .. just give them a call and I'm sure the problem will be addressed and resolved.

As for some of the issues you encountered, maybe I can assist with some of those matters? I believe that both the trimming of the fan support as well as oil return line fitment issues could have been addressed by clocking the center housing into the proper position --- most know to clock the compressor cover for fitment reasons, but don't think to do the same for the center housing --- just an fyi in case it helps.

In my understanding, this would have lined up the center housing in such a way that the fan support would not need trimming and the oil return line pieces would line up perfectly.

Beyond that, I question the 5.5 and then later 4.5K spool at 20 lbs. Most any turbo with a 50 trim somewhere in its description will spool fully well short of 4K. Is it possible you have some boost leaks, as I see you mentioned you did diagnostics, but never mentioned specifically what was done.

Also, I wonder whether the turbo was primed with oil prior to first startup and drive? And I am also curious as to where the oil source was taken from (oil filter housing or head)?

Anyhow, thanks for the review .. this puts the information in the heads/hands of the potential customers and alerts them to both the strengths and weakness of the product and let's them decide. As Terrorize said I think the no questions asked warranty for one year combined with AGP's noted customer services will be the silver lining.

 

[pickens]

Although I would like to keep this thread strictly on the turbonetics turbo review thus far, I will give a to AGP for being willing to work around turbonetics to help minimize the down time. However, I'm not sure when I will get the new turbo to post a hopefully better review on.

 

[olmytsi]

I have that turbo and i get 20psi by 4k on a 3 inch exhaust no cat, dump and bone stock 7 bolt. I also had the oil return problem and my line is kinked but i didnt think of clocking the center section so i may try that. I just noticed some oil in my intake pipe so i am going to investigate

 

[ltho98]

I'm using an RS49T and if you're using an internally gated setup with a turbo that large-- its just kinda silly. But in any case, their warranty's are no questions asked warranty's. Use the turbo as a salad shooter and no questions asked, it will be replaced.

Turbonetics cores are hit or miss regardless as far as seals go. That really isn't an AGP problem but more a turbonetics problem, which is why there is a warranty. AGP just makes the turbine housings which goes onto the center section.

As for the internal gate being loose, should have just sent it back when you noticed it. No one is perfect, mistakes happen it just depends on how you handle the mistakes and AGP does an outstanding job with customer service.

My review of the turbo:
Mods are-- 650cc injectors, 2g MAS, Tial 35mm external, 3" thermal, HRC 3" downpipe, IRC FMIC, 264/272 cams, Emanage

Boost threshold in 3rd gear- 2800 rpm.
Achieves 14psi at 3300rpm.
Never ran at boost pressures higher than that so i can't give you a report of top end power, but looks like there is universally no complaints about that.

I had the same problem with my oil return line too, i think they should just cut more away before they ship, no big deal, took me all of 10 mintes to do.

All in all i haven't unleashed the full potential of the turbo, but for what it was at 14psi, i was pleasantly pleased.

 

[AL92]

Must be turbonetics problem.I had their garrett Rs 49 and zerop problems the turbo boosted a lot lower than 5500 more like 3500 to maybe 3800 or so with my 3 inch gm maf,apexi n1 catback and downpipe.Its working fine for guy I sold it too.Buddy says his rs60t seems to have excessive play I think.I will be sticking to garrett turbos personally.

 

[sweet97]

I am AL92's friend with the RS60T and I did notlike the excessive shaft play for a new turbo. Ben offered to take it back and send to turbonetics for inspection. My oil return did not line up well at all and after clocking the turbo I got it to where it was acceptable but not as good as it should be. I am having trouble hitting high enough boost also. I removed the locknut on the arm and got the arm as short as it will go. It will only open the wastegate about 25-40% but I am getting the 20-22PSI I wanted to run on pump. I still need to check for boost leaks but had none when I parked the car for winter storage. I emailed AGP asking if an actuator with a stiffer spring is avilable but got no response. I will try again. Mark
PS: It spools like a EVO 16G!!

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

I have an RS60T in my room waiting to go in, and I'm not liking the way this thread is going. I'd rather not have to bolt on a turbo only to have to remove it in a week to get it replaced.

Ben, care to chime in with any reviews, answers, or anything else?

 

[sweet97]

Ben responded to my 13th email. I apologized forsending so many but after spending $900.and not being able to raise the boost above 17/18 psi and having a bit more shaft play than i liked I was/am concerned and need his help. I removed the lock nut on the actuator armand got 20psi. What about the claim of 30 psi by 3000 RPM?
It seems I need an actuatorwith a strongerspring. i suggest those interested or owning one of these email Ben sohe understands the situation. I also sent him picsof the angle the arm has as the bracket comes. I had to drillanother hole to get the arm on a decent angle.
I will report what he says. mark
PS: IT spools very quickly!

 

[pneumo]

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but maybe your oil return line wasn't letting enough oil flow out and the oil had nowhere else to go but out past the seals. If the oil return line still had a kink in it, or even a sharp bend that narowed it slightly, that might be enough to back up the oil. Just a thought.

 

[AL92]

I had some oil past my normal RS49 a few times.It was from problems with pcv fitting to breather back to engine valve cover loop.I had blockages in the lines and that pressurized the crank case and caused big time oil out every gasket in the engine,out the turbo inlets and outlets and out the exhaust.I thought my engine was done !!
I fixed the blockages in the breather system and the oil burning all stopped.
still think might have seen a slight bit of oil in the intake pipe and that might simply be that a bit does get past the seals with the pressure being so high off the oil filter housing.

I have read several companies that you dont blow seals and my turbo was fine after fixing the blockages in the pcv breather loop.Now I have a straight fitting taboo type setup in my car.I think a sticking pcv valve can also pressurize the crankcase and cause similar oil problems.

A turbo should not have excessive shaft play unless it old or something really bad has happened.My rs49 has no shaft play but again this is garrett rs49 not the turbonetics one.I don't know if turbonetics can blow turbo seals out.As I said I am sticking with garrett.

Hopefully soon to have a ball bearing turbo.

 

[Ben K]

There seem to be a few issues that I need to address here so everyone is at ease.

1. Oil drain issue: All of our oil drain line kits are made in a jig, the same jig that we've been using for years. I double and triple checked the jig last night and there is absolutely no problem with the drain line alignment as long as the center housing is clocked properly. The proper instructions to clock the housings are on the warranty sheet that is at the bottom of every box we ship out, and is also mentioned on our website here . If you are using a manifold that isn't a 1G, 2G, or EVO3, your alignment may be a little off.

2. Internal wastegate actuator: As with all turbo setups, we'll always recommend an external wastegate. It's a real guessing game we play with regards to an internal wastegate. We've been supplying the same Garrett actuator for a few years now that you received, and for the most part, we've had no complaints on being able to achieve desired boost. The standard Garrett actuator can be adjusted (which is why we make it adjustable) to hit and hold between 15psi and 25psi. This should be enough adjustability for 95% of the market which is why we supply it. If you're wanting less than 15 or more than 25, I suggest an external. We can offer our billet actuator but most people have boost creap issues up to around 20psi with such a tight spring in the billet actuator. You're more than willing to try that, or you can space out the bracket with some washers to add even more preload.

3. Turbo Failure: We received the "pis-poor" turbo back from Mr. Pickens yesterday. We found what caused it to fail. I tried calling him a few times and have also sent him an email with pictures. I'll let him post to this thread and attach the pictures as to what caused the turbo to fail. I can assure all of you, there was nothing wrong with the build quality of his turbo. Nevertheless, it will be covered under Turbonetics warranty.

Thank you all for listening to the other side of the story.

 

[sweet97]

Although I would like to keep this thread strictly on the turbonetics turbo review thus far, I will give a to AGP for being willing to work around turbonetics to help minimize the down time. However, I'm not sure when I will get the new turbo to post a hopefully better review on.

PICKENS please post what Ben has sent to you as there are man of us with these turbo's and we want the air cleared. Thanks, Mark(RS60T)

 

[pickens]

According to the analysis performed by Ben, it appears that some teflon pipe sealant I used for the oil line made its way past the threads and clogged the oil inlet screen. I am big enough to admit a mistake on my part if this indeed is what caused the turbo to fail. Although, I'm not 100% sold that this could of happened since I installed and re-installed my turbos many times without a hiccup. But at the same time I am very capable of making mistakes. Ben said this thread should have been titled "RS49t: Questionable Installation" That just may be true. However, as stated the turbo will be replaced under warranty. I will be sure to take extreme caution when installing the new one to make sure there is no way the turbo can fail from any of my own doing. Although, I its not like Ididn't take caution this time already.

When I recieve the turbo, I will install it immediately and provide feedback.

However, the issues w/ the wg actuator are still unclear. When I tightened the unit as far as possible it would still blow open, which is why I fabricated a spacer to apply more preload. However, doing this used up some of the travel in the actuator (approx. 1/4-5/16") thus limiting its ability to control boost. Is this supposed to be normal? The wg acutator I sent back had a spring that is definately softer than my old 16g or t25 springs which are 12psi I believe.

Here are pics from Ben showing what he found in the oil inlet.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Actually, it won't let me post them for some reason, Ben feel free to post what you found in the turbo I sent back. I would like everyone to view MY mistake if this is truly what happened. Thanks.

 

[Ben K]

Here are a few pics.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Mistakes happen and that's what warranty's are for.

 

[olmytsi]

I fixed the kink in my oil return line. There is no smoke under acceleration so i think i should be fine, i am glad i caught it early. I just put 2000 miles on the turbo with mostly daily driving off boost so i dont think it took too much of a beating with the kinked line. I have no problems whatsoever with boost control on the internal wastegate unlike some of you above. Oh yeah i just killed 4th gear at the track so i need a tranny rebuild. Make sure your driveline is in good shape before bolting something like this on. Also, i think the 7 is starting to walk

 

[leadsled]

First of all, why not contact the vendor about the problems as they occurred, as opposed to after homemade solutions are implemented and total failure occurs? I would especially ping them before posting any product quality speculation on an internet message board. It's a courtesy that increases the chances of getting good vendor support when you call.

Second, please guys, don't ever use a sealing agent like teflon tape on an oil feed like that. It has a flared seal for a reason, and it works very well even when not super tight. For reference, my oil feed line leaves the 90 filter housing, goes through the -4 FP filter, then goes to the turbo. I like this combo a lot. It's going to be much easier to remove/disassemble the FP filter than look into the inlet filter on the turbo oil inlet.

Third, I had the same initial problem with the oil lines, and as Ben suggested, loosening the bolts and slightly reclocking *both* housings made it line up good enough. Problem solved with one email and a near-instantaneous reply.

Fourth, my turbine housing flapper arm wiggles a lot too, but that's Bullseye's thing, not AGP. Even with the slop, my flapper had no problems covering the port.

---

My experience so far with the RS49T has been pretty great. It spools faster than my 20G (sleeper16) did, and with none of the surge. In 3rd, going WOT at 3K, I get 17psi before 3800.

The Garrett WG actuator has been pretty weird (sounds just like yours). Directly hooking pressure source to WG results in ~5psi. Letting WG reference to atmosphere resulted in about 15psi (unpreloaded). Preloading WG arm about 1/8" resulted in 17psi, creeping to 20psi in 3rd-5th. I've compared this WG off the car to an OEM one, and it seems to open at less pressure than the stocker (mind you, not preloaded). I'm going to try out the billet WG and see how it does. If that doesn't fix it, I'll go external.

As for AGP customer service, it's been excellent. I've gotten quick responses via phone and email. I've gotten advice that made the install easier. A+ Molto Bene! Perfetto!

 

[sweet97]

Human nature for guys to expect an expensive item to be as expected. The problem with expectations is that then there is no appreciation because something was "expected". Happens a lot with people and leads to miscommunication and consequently arguements.I have recently been studying expectations.
I did send Ben pics of the actuator and the angle it was on previously because I had already drilled a new hole but he saw the alignment I have now and how I got it.
I agree Ben gives the best service. Emails back VERY quick on most occasions.
What is a billett actuator?
My RS60T is operating wonderfully and I am pleased with the purchase though the boost contol still needs to be addresed and Ben is attending to it. mark

 

[cfisher]

After reading all this I'm glad I went external. I get full boost by 4K and it is rock steady. I even dropped it down to 14psi and not 1 psi of boost creep. Great turbo and really pulls very smooth.

 

[JessesTalon]

Exellent Customer Service is always the key to returning customers. Good to hear.

 

[Ludachris]

Please post your parts reviews in the Parts Feedback section instead of in the forums please:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=47

Thanks!

 

[cfisher]

I've had my RS60T on now for about 2 weeks and I'm not to happy. It is already burning oil really bad and now I can hear the wheel hitting something through the intake. I'm not sure if I just got a bad one but I've already opened the intake and there is nothing in there that I can see. I also checked the oil line and took it off to make sure there is nothing jammed in there and there is nothing. The wheel has already started shaft play and moves all ways. I can literally hear the wheel tinking very loud and it's already started to whine. Maybe I just got a bad one and this is normally a good turbo but it does put a bad taste in my mouth. I'm glad there is a warranty or I would have just bought a brand new turbo that lasted 2 weeks. Looks like I'll be ripping this one off the car and sending it back so I can wait another month for a new one.