ross pistons from extremepsi.com

[yeahitsfast]

im not sure what exact kind these are, i bought the motor like this and i would like to know how much hp these pistons support. its an 8.3 compression ratio and its bored .20 over. any info would help alot. im lookin for 700 whp. im taking out the eagle rods cause ive seen them only support 600 hp to the crank, which is basically stock rods. thank you

 

[maperformance]

You shouldn't have any issues hitting your goal of 700whp with those pistons, but that assumption relies heavily on tuning as detonation will kill any piston if its bad enough. In regards to the rods, we have made over 700whp with the Eagle rods, but that is the very edge of their capabilities and if you already have the motor apart, better safe then sorry. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance with your build

Chris Carey
763-545-3800

 

[twicks69]

Your Ross pistons would be part number #99811; .020"-over 8.3:1 comp. off-the-shelf pistons for the 6-bolt.

Eagle rods can handle that kind of power level. There are other choices out there that are a bit stronger, but for the price and the quality, they are a great choice. They are most definitely stronger than stock rods, as they can handle over 1000HP depending on your application and tune.

I do agree with Chris at MAPerformance though, your tune will play the most important role in the lifespan of your engine along with the quality of the parts you have in it and the precision of the machinework/assembly.

As far as the Eagle rods and Ross Pistons go, I have used them for over 3 years in my Eclipse and have only replaced bearings and rings once as a "refresh" in 2007. The pistons are great quality and are very stout, and the rods have lived up to well over 700AWHP for years on the original rod bolts.

Just remember though, I am running 7-bolt. The rod weight, pin size, and main bearing journal size does vary from the 6-bolt.

The 7-bolt uses a larger pin size (22mm vs. 21mm), but has a smaller main bearing size and are a bit lighter (550grams vs. 575grams) than the 6-bolt version. Both versions use a 3/8" ARP 2000 rod bolt.

When building a high-HP 4G63, pin size does become important as it sucks to have one fail; and rod bolt size will become a factor as well. The bigger the rod bolt, the better when you are making a very high HP setup that is going to last.

I would consult your engine builder concerning your application before purchasing replacement parts.

If you currently are running this setup, I would keep it a while and just watch your main and rod bearing wear. The rod bearings will get pounded out under high boost after a while (it is just life with steel rods), so just keep them inspected and stay on top of the game.

Otherwise, I know that MAPerformance can help you out with your needs as they carry a variety of different rod choices including the following:

*MAP/Howards (Extreme Duty Steel Rods) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)
*Manley (H-beam, I-beam, and Performance Pro series Extreme HP rods) Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Pauter X-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Crower I-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Eagle H-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Scat H-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Carillo A-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*GRP Aluminum Rods (22mm wrist pin) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)
*MGP Aluminum Rods (22mm wrist pin) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)

As well, they provide a really nice heavy duty rod at a great price that is one of the beefiest steel rods out there!:

MAPerformance Ultimate Duty Billet Steel Connecting Rods (6 Bolt 4g63)
*Manufactured by Howards Racing Components
*Utilize 7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts
*4340 Steel that is stress relieved and shot-peened
*Heat Treated
*Ampco 18 bronze wristpin bushings
*652 gram weight
*Designed to handle 1000+HP

 

[yeahitsfast]

thank you guys. my current car is a 98 tiburon which i built myself with pauter rods and wiseco pistons, full valvetrain minus cams and a 57trim turbo w/ megasquirt standalone. it put almost 400whp down but 400 whp + fwd = no traction. enough of my present, now to the future.... i got my 91 talon a few months ago and started building from there with different suspension products and an s362 borg warner turbo ($1300) which should be plenty of power. can you use 7 bolt pistons on a 6bolt block? ive heard of people using a bigger wrist pin, but just figured that was an option. for the sake of argument, ill say im shooting for 800 awhp since 700 seems border line. im looking at wiseco 1400s and the manley turbo-tuffs will this be enough for me? i wish there was something that i could look at for horsepower/pressure ratings for all these combos. thanks again guys

 

[twicks69]

thank you guys. my current car is a 98 tiburon which i built myself with pauter rods and wiseco pistons, full valvetrain minus cams and a 57trim turbo w/ megasquirt standalone. it put almost 400whp down but 400 whp + fwd = no traction. enough of my present, now to the future.... i got my 91 talon a few months ago and started building from there with different suspension products and an s362 borg warner turbo ($1300) which should be plenty of power. can you use 7 bolt pistons on a 6bolt block? ive heard of people using a bigger wrist pin, but just figured that was an option. for the sake of argument, ill say im shooting for 800 awhp since 700 seems border line. im looking at wiseco 1400s and the manley turbo-tuffs will this be enough for me? i wish there was something that i could look at for horsepower/pressure ratings for all these combos. thanks again guys

Ok....you have a 91 talon AWD with a built 6-bolt 2.0L that currently has 8.3:1 Ross Pistons and Eagle rods. Correct?

You have a Borg S362. Correct? What A/R housing? On a divided-flange manifold?

What else do you have? Fuel? Engine Management? Head? Valvetrain? Intake manifold? Drivetrain/Clutch? etc.

Even if you have every supporting modification, you will be extremely hard-pressed to get 700whp, let alone 800whp on that turbo on an excellent tune by a professional. Do you know how many people on here actually have made the power you are looking at? not many. Do you know how many people come on here saying that they have this type of goal? alot.

Why don't we start over by having you post your list of modifications that you currently have? This makes answering questions much easier. As well, please ask researched questions as it makes it easier for us to give you informative answers.

What is your budget? Are you doing everything yourself? Is a shop doing it for you?

Going from a 400HP FWD to an 800AWHP AWD is big difference, and is not cheap by any means.

 

[mikelv]

Your Ross pistons would be part number #99811; .020"-over 8.3:1 comp. off-the-shelf pistons for the 6-bolt.

Eagle rods can handle that kind of power level. There are other choices out there that are a bit stronger, but for the price and the quality, they are a great choice. They are most definitely stronger than stock rods, as they can handle over 1000HP depending on your application and tune.

I do agree with Chris at MAPerformance though, your tune will play the most important role in the lifespan of your engine along with the quality of the parts you have in it and the precision of the machinework/assembly.

As far as the Eagle rods and Ross Pistons go, I have used them for over 3 years in my Eclipse and have only replaced bearings and rings once as a "refresh" in 2007. The pistons are great quality and are very stout, and the rods have lived up to well over 700AWHP for years on the original rod bolts.

Just remember though, I am running 7-bolt. The rod weight, pin size, and main bearing journal size does vary from the 6-bolt.

The 7-bolt uses a larger pin size (22mm vs. 21mm), but has a smaller main bearing size and are a bit lighter (550grams vs. 575grams) than the 6-bolt version. Both versions use a 3/8" ARP 2000 rod bolt.

When building a high-HP 4G63, pin size does become important as it sucks to have one fail; and rod bolt size will become a factor as well. The bigger the rod bolt, the better when you are making a very high HP setup that is going to last.

I would consult your engine builder concerning your application before purchasing replacement parts.

If you currently are running this setup, I would keep it a while and just watch your main and rod bearing wear. The rod bearings will get pounded out under high boost after a while (it is just life with steel rods), so just keep them inspected and stay on top of the game.

Otherwise, I know that MAPerformance can help you out with your needs as they carry a variety of different rod choices including the following:

*MAP/Howards (Extreme Duty Steel Rods) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)
*Manley (H-beam, I-beam, and Performance Pro series Extreme HP rods) Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Pauter X-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Crower I-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Eagle H-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Scat H-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*Carillo A-Beam Steel Rods (3/8" ARP 2000 fasteners)
*GRP Aluminum Rods (22mm wrist pin) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)
*MGP Aluminum Rods (22mm wrist pin) (7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts)

As well, they provide a really nice heavy duty rod at a great price that is one of the beefiest steel rods out there!:

MAPerformance Ultimate Duty Billet Steel Connecting Rods (6 Bolt 4g63)
*Manufactured by Howards Racing Components
*Utilize 7/16" ARP 2000 Rod Bolts
*4340 Steel that is stress relieved and shot-peened
*Heat Treated
*Ampco 18 bronze wristpin bushings
*652 gram weight
*Designed to handle 1000+HP

Amazing write up Tim, can't say enough.
I am currently running the Eagle H-beam rods with Wiseco Pistons bored .20 over. I am looking for something to handle more pressure so I can upgrade to a full Garret. I've got everything I need to step it up....

I currently have the 100mm 4G64, 4340 Eagle Crank in a 2.3L stroker. Having the stroker yourself, I was just wondering what it would take for me to swap my pistons/rods for something stronger. I've built a few motors, but don't have nearly the experience you do.

I guess I mean would it be as easy as just new bearings, and swapping them out with a set of .20 bored over? Hope you can follow me here. Thanks!

Sorry for piggy backing the OP!! Hoping we still have some relevance here!

 

[twicks69]

Amazing write up Tim, can't say enough.
I am currently running the Eagle H-beam rods with Wiseco Pistons bored .20 over. I am looking for something to handle more pressure so I can upgrade to a full Garret. I've got everything I need to step it up....

I currently have the 100mm 4G64, 4340 Eagle Crank in a 2.3L stroker. Having the stroker yourself, I was just wondering what it would take for me to swap my pistons/rods for something stronger. I've built a few motors, but don't have nearly the experience you do.

I guess I mean would it be as easy as just new bearings, and swapping them out with a set of .20 bored over? Hope you can follow me here. Thanks!

Sorry for piggy backing the OP!! Hoping we still have some relevance here!

Mike,

Your 6-bolt is a pretty solid setup currently --
*8.8:1 .020-over Wiseco Pistons
*5.900" 6-bolt H-beam Eagle Rods
*Eagle 6-bolt 100mm crank
*ARP mains, ARP 8740 head studs
*Cometic head gasket
*nice head buildup with cams/gears/valvetrain
*FP 3065 turbo
*1G intake manifold (extrude honed and ported)
*1x Walbro 255HP in-tank pump w/ 1050cc injectors and stainless lines
*DSMLink V2 and MAF-Translator
*NGK BPR8ES plugs w/ 1G coil pack and Magnacore wires
*Fluidampr crank pulley
*Good transmission and axle setup
*Weak link is your clutch currently if you go much further - 2600 w/ street disk
*Your parts wishlist is a pretty major shift from what you currently have.

You are really using a nice list of supporting modifications as well for your current setup and have covered all of your bases well to utilize the FP 3065 to its potential to make a pretty darn good street car setup while also remembering suspension, braking, drivetrain and safety.

Are you intending on upgrading from the FP 3065 to a larger turbo, or just increasing boost pressure? I know you have your wishlist, but is that actually your direction? GT4202R is a jump.

This is also your street car correct? Are you intending on sticking with steel rods? What are your goals, and how have they changed since the last engine buildup? What kind of boost pressure are you proposing to be running regularly?

In your circumstance, the engine is running great right?

If you are going to do a major shift in the level of performance, it is worth it to pull the motor, and do a full teardown/refresh. So, inspect the crank, new bearings, check the cylinder walls and re-hone if necessary. Some coated Ross pistons and MAP/Howards rods would be pretty solid for a street car.

If you are intending on swapping rods and pistons; especially the rods, there will be the requirement of re-clearancing the block to clear the main caps and the block casting webs on the 6-bolt. If your block requires a new bore to be done for different pistons, I would recommend a custom piston that allows you to overbore it the least possible. You can also then make a compression ratio and piston dome design that better suits your goals vs. an off-the-shelf piston.

You can also use ceramic coatings on your piston domes which will allow a bit more safety from detonation, reduced hot-spotting, and gives better thermal efficiency (Swain Technologies Gold Coat). You can also use coatings on the skirts to increase lubrication, oil shedding or more effectively reduce cylinder bore wear scuffing, and piston skirt wear (Swain Technologies Poly-Moly (on sliding parts) and PC-9 Coatings). The PC-9 coating is a bit more advanced and has different beneficial properties to it when compared to the Poly-Moly coating.

You can also use these coatings on your main and rod bearings (Peko-Poly-Moly Coating -- "PPM" -- on rotating parts); it is useful because it is self-lubricating while holding oil on the surface, and reduces the coefficient of friction. This will have a positive effect on increasing bearing life, reducing surface friction and surface temperatures, oiling cushioning and overall wear on the surface of the bearing/rod/crank.

Personally, I will be using a custom Ross piston (w/22mm pin), using Gold-Coat on the domes, Poly-Moly on the skirts. I will be also getting the head coated (springs, chambers, valves, and exhaust ports) to help increase thermal efficiency.

You can also increase your engine's volumetric efficiency by using the thermal and oiling coatings on the cylinder head/valves/valvetrain. By using the Gold coat on the piston dome in conjunction with the TBC (Ceramic Thermal Barrier coating) on the cylinder head combustion chamber, valves and exhaust ports, you can effectively direct the heat out of the cylinder head and down the exhaust stream instead of directing it back into the cylinder head as heat soak. This will greatly increase efficiency in conjunction with a well designed tubular manifold that is thermal coated, allowing you to maximize exhaust temperature and exhaust velocity and volume that is being sent to the turbo, increasing efficiency, spool, and overall power.

By using Poly Moly coating on your valve springs, you can reduce their operating temperatures by reducing friction and increasing lubrication, thus resulting in increased operating life and reduced spring fatigue.

As well, you can use oil-shedding coatings on your connecting rods. Heck, you can also go an extra step with a drivetrain and use PPM (Peko-Poly-Moly) coating on your transmission shafts and gears to reduce friction.

The list can go on and on -- it is much easier for you to just research what I said at the Swain Coatings site. I trust their products and have used them for years with great success. They are worth their prices, and their product quality is unmatched. Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding .



Ok....so, street car, more boost, more power than current....I would recommend the following:

*Custom Ross Pistons and rings with 22mm wrist pins(compression ratio will depend on what fuel you are going to be using, and what boost you want to be consistently running).

*MAPerformance/Howards Steel Rods if you stick with a steel rod. They will be more reliable than the aluminum rods with less overall maintenence. It will come at the cost of your rod bearings (why I recommended the bearing coatings), and overall weight per rod.

*Your crank will be fine. I would have it magnafluxed, micropolished and thats it.
*Hone the block, make it all happy, and check the main journals.
*New bearings
*New ARP L19 head studs
*New water pump
*New front cover gears (are you running balance shafts? a stub shaft? or the AMS modified balance shaft that retains the bearing race for improved oil pump gear life?)


This is a big chunk, so take a look at what I said, and address your goals so that the details can be worked out.


Good luck!

 

[mikelv]

This is a big chunk, so take a look at what I said, and address your goals so that the details can be worked out.

Good luck!

Tim,
Wow, yes this is quite a bit, my head is spinning.
But honestly, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help me. I'm mostly on here posting and helping out the new guys. It's good to see the community is still strong and there's still good dudes out there to address what MY intentions, goals, and concerns are; thank you!!!

Okay, I'm going to put some tea on here because this might take a minute.

You are really using a nice list of supporting modifications as well for your current setup and have covered all of your bases well to utilize the FP 3065 to its potential to make a pretty darn good street car setup while also remembering suspension, braking, drivetrain and safety

Yes, for this entire setup, you hit the nail on the head. My original goal was to build a nasty street car, that would hold up its own at the track. I sat down and did my research; what engine, turbo, and drivetrain combination was going to suit my needs? Well, hell nothing better than the stroker for a nasty street car. The first time I decided I wanted a build motor, I had zero experience in the department. Everything I know and I've learned, I've taught myself based on passion and determination, that's just the way it is. So, I called all the normal places, AMS, Shep, Magnus.....really wasn't happy until I talked to Darren King @ FFWD. Great guy, and by far the most patient! Great customer service. Long story short, I paid big money for someone else to build me a motor. Well, that was a couple years ago now, and let's just say as most DSM'ers I learned some tough lessons and have come a long way.

The second time around was able to do some more research, and basically did everything myself minus the machine work. I just don't have the experience or education for that. Be assured; as you can see from the build plan I did everything the correct way. I worked hard on the research before making a decision.

Are you intending on upgrading from the FP 3065 to a larger turbo, or just increasing boost pressure? I know you have your wishlist, but is that actually your direction? GT4202R is a jump.

Honestly Tim, that is a real good question. When I got the 3065, I just fell in love with it. Because I went about it the correct way I was able to do things with this turbo that I hadn't experienced before. Made me a real believer in Forced Performance Turbos. I honestly got in touch with Curt Brown, and had serious inspirations at going for a speed record on that baby.

To this point, I have run 30 psi on the turbo just doing some street tuning. To put it in perspective, I haven't even had a chance to run this entire setup either on the track, or on the dyno!! So why am I even looking for something else? I just put this whole thing together last summer, and heck it only has about 1500 miles on it from "buzzing" around town and some pulls. At 30 pounds, I was able to flow 64 lbs/min with 22 degrees of total timing, no knock, and the fuel system holding up just fine. Down here in South Carolina 110 is a lot cheaper so that's all I run for fuel in the car. I know there is still more in this setup, boost pressure, power, and speed. My next logical step in the sequence was to reduce weight. As of right now, race weight with me sitting in the car is 2940lbs. (2740 w/o me in it.)

The 4202, built 2 liter idea came from watching the "big-dawgs" out there tearing it up. Hell man, I just was thinking I could invest a little bit more, sell this stuff at a decent price, hit 1000hp and with some hard work, be right up there. Right now, I'm thinking that's not really necessary. I'm telling you right now I'm confident I can do some very impressive things with this FP. Did you know Curt Brown hit 9.6 (9 something) on this turbo? Want to hear the impressive part? He did it on 660's with an AFC!

This is also your street car correct? Are you intending on sticking with steel rods? What are your goals, and how have they changed since the last engine buildup? What kind of boost pressure are you proposing to be running regularly?

If you took a quick look at my gallery, I guess a couple years ago I got myself on some F n' F kick as you can see from the ricer street look thing. Let me just say, a lot has changed since. I have gone through multiple looks for a clean street/show car but that is no more. The most I will have is an OEM rear wing, with OEM bumper, CF side mirrors, and CF hood for weight.

No, this is not going to be street driven, and honestly the most I've ever daily driven this car in 10 yrs of ownership was a couple of weeks when my girlfriend needed a ride to work. (21000 original mi.) The most this thing will be street driven is on a Saturday night to show off somewhere, ect....
I would look to max this turbo out or at least 90% efficiency on every pass, going for gold. For the street, I want to be able to have a cruise map saved, so my question is what profound effect would changing the composite makeup of the engine have on this? I understand some drivetrain parts might affect street driving obviously, but I never considered engine parts.

No, so after some though, and writing to you, I suspect my goals really haven't changed. I would still like to hit 8.99 on a stroker with the 3065. Just never did it last summer. Why not, right? Get the weight down, little more safety, and hey I really feel it is possible. You?

In your circumstance, the engine is running great right?

Yes, as far as I know everything is still in great condition. Last weekend, I pulled everything out of the car and put the longblock on a stand. You see I had what I though to be a nasty oil leak, and a few little problems, which led me to have great concern for what I built. It turned out that the 2 bolts that held the tensioner on were loost causing a few drop of oil to come out the front case. Well those few drops hitting the belts made a huge damn mess on everything. So, at the least I wanted to "freshen" things up.

Another huge problem I came across was on a pull, I would lose clutch pedal pressure, and it was having a difficult time shifting. So, I was scared to death that I either did something wrong in the build or I was that one unlucky son of a bi*** who had a 6 bolt start walking on him. So I pulled the pan, checked play, and nothing had changed. The thrust bearing clearance was .004" and still well within tolerance. I was confused, and like you mentioned in here I know that 2600 was most likely fried after a few pulls. (I actually got a bran new 2600 kit for free, so I couldn't pass). Well I was half way there so with no answer so I decided to just pull the rest. Most likely it was that 2600. What I found was shocking. When I went to pull the transmission, not only were the transmission bolts loose as hell, but my pressure plate bolts came out with little or no effort! I was concerned because I used Loctite Red on these bolts, and torqued everything to spec. I guess with that kind of power, shit is going to come loose over time?

So after pulling the 2600 disc and seeing it was as smooth as a baby's ass, my conclusion was the combination of the transmission and pressure plate being loose, and the disc being shot; oh and not to mention a leaky slave cylinder. But anyways, all easy fixes except for one point in which I would like to ask you? What do I need to ensure that doesn't happen again, and yes! I want ARP everything now!!! Not just heads, mains, rockers cover, and oil pan. What do I need to do to ensure this?

If you are going to do a major shift in the level of performance, it is worth it to pull the motor, and do a full teardown/refresh. So, inspect the crank, new bearings, check the cylinder walls and re-hone if necessary. Some coated Ross pistons and MAP/Howards rods would be pretty solid for a street car.

If you are intending on swapping rods and pistons; especially the rods, there will be the requirement of re-clearancing the block to clear the main caps and the block casting webs on the 6-bolt. If your block requires a new bore to be done for different pistons, I would recommend a custom piston that allows you to overbore it the least possible. You can also then make a compression ratio and piston dome design that better suits your goals vs. an off-the-shelf piston.

Well, after writing this, I've been thinking maybe this isn't the direction I really need to go quite yet.

I honestly believe I can tighten up a few "loose ends" and things will be okay for me. Honestly what I am looking at right now it a SS Clutch Line, PPT Twin Disc Clutch Setup, along with some ARP fastners, and a few little odds and ends. I really don't think I need to replace bearings quite yet, but what do you suggest? I pointed out pretty much all this setup has gone through. Maybe 50 total pulls and less than 15 total runs to be honest. All between 25-30 psi. 30 psi was only ran once, and pulled probably 4-5 times.

Is this enough for me to pull everything on this motor, and go with the coatings, machining and what not? I'm not exactly sure? How much do you run the car before you pull bearings, re-hone and everything else included?

A rotating assembly polishing, and rod/piston swap may be just a little more than I really need right now. Do you think my goals are too far fetched on this setup?

You can also use ceramic coatings on your piston domes which will allow a bit more safety from detonation, reduced hot-spotting, and gives better thermal efficiency (Swain Technologies Gold Coat). You can also use coatings on the skirts to increase lubrication, oil shedding or more effectively reduce cylinder bore wear scuffing, and piston skirt wear (Swain Technologies Poly-Moly (on sliding parts) and PC-9 Coatings). The PC-9 coating is a bit more advanced and has different beneficial properties to it when compared to the Poly-Moly coating.

You can also use these coatings on your main and rod bearings (Peko-Poly-Moly Coating -- "PPM" -- on rotating parts); it is useful because it is self-lubricating while holding oil on the surface, and reduces the coefficient of friction. This will have a positive effect on increasing bearing life, reducing surface friction and surface temperatures, oiling cushioning and overall wear on the surface of the bearing/rod/crank.

Personally, I will be using a custom Ross piston (w/22mm pin), using Gold-Coat on the domes, Poly-Moly on the skirts. I will be also getting the head coated (springs, chambers, valves, and exhaust ports) to help increase thermal efficiency.

You can also increase your engine's volumetric efficiency by using the thermal and oiling coatings on the cylinder head/valves/valvetrain. By using the Gold coat on the piston dome in conjunction with the TBC (Ceramic Thermal Barrier coating) on the cylinder head combustion chamber, valves and exhaust ports, you can effectively direct the heat out of the cylinder head and down the exhaust stream instead of directing it back into the cylinder head as heat soak. This will greatly increase efficiency in conjunction with a well designed tubular manifold that is thermal coated, allowing you to maximize exhaust temperature and exhaust velocity and volume that is being sent to the turbo, increasing efficiency, spool, and overall power.

By using Poly Moly coating on your valve springs, you can reduce their operating temperatures by reducing friction and increasing lubrication, thus resulting in increased operating life and reduced spring fatigue.

As well, you can use oil-shedding coatings on your connecting rods. Heck, you can also go an extra step with a drivetrain and use PPM (Peko-Poly-Moly) coating on your transmission shafts and gears to reduce friction.

The list can go on and on -- it is much easier for you to just research what I said at the Swain Coatings site. I trust their products and have used them for years with great success. They are worth their prices, and their product quality is unmatched. Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding.

This is all great information I will look into this entire concept and process. I have some idea of the concept but honestly no real experience. This is a great way to increase thermal efficiency internally, as where as before I only really had consideration for external efficiency. Exhaust/Turbo/Fuel wraps, thermal coatings, intercooler sprays, methanol, and things of that nature to keep intake temperatures down. I actually had huge problems with coolant temperatures and took some drastic measures including cutting holes in my hood (actually pretty clean), wrapping more than Santa Clause, and coming up with an intercooler spray bar. Intake temps were fine, but it was engine temps that became the problem.

I would love to even explore this process with my current setup, just I'm not a rich man. I'm a working military guy, so a whole new engine gasket set just isn't worth it if I don't need it. But then again, as high as my inspirations are, this just might be necessary. You thoughts?

Ok....so, street car, more boost, more power than current....I would recommend the following:

*Custom Ross Pistons and rings with 22mm wrist pins(compression ratio will depend on what fuel you are going to be using, and what boost you want to be consistently running).

*MAPerformance/Howards Steel Rods if you stick with a steel rod. They will be more reliable than the aluminum rods with less overall maintenence. It will come at the cost of your rod bearings (why I recommended the bearing coatings), and overall weight per rod.

*Your crank will be fine. I would have it magnafluxed, micropolished and thats it.
*Hone the block, make it all happy, and check the main journals.
*New bearings
*New ARP L19 head studs
*New water pump
*New front cover gears (are you running balance shafts? a stub shaft? or the AMS modified balance shaft that retains the bearing race for improved oil pump gear life?)

Okay, so are you saying the turbo can be pushed harder than this, but only with a stronger or custom piston? Which is really the direction I would go if I went for more internal engine work.

The water pump, oil pump, front case, timing gears, hell everything is all bran new OEM with the same miles as the build. When I went for the 6 bolt motor, I bought everything bran new from the man, nothing second hand or used so I not too concerned there unless I should be?

No balance shafts in the car, and yes I agree, if I did pull the timing belt, and did all this regardless, I would get all new timing gears, and tensioner.

Okay, I think I covered everything here! Thank you again so much for your well respected and appreciated professional opinion. Fee free to look over this and let me know what you think?

Respectfully,
Mike

 

[mikelv]

One more thing that just came to me:
While I have the motor out on a stand, it would be wise for me to get a 100mm main girdle?
What is this going to consist of? I know it was something I should have done in the first place!!

 

[twicks69]

Mike, thanks for the detailed post showing me what your goals and considerations are for your setup.

If you are going to stick with the FP3065, you should be just fine with your engine buildup; The Eagle/Wiseco is more than capable of holding over 600whp without flinching on a good tune.

The heavier duty rod and piston combination I recommended would be if you were to go with a "BIG" turbo (i.e. 42R-sized range), and were shooting for 1000HP. It would be cheap insurance in that scenario. But in your current setup, I would just use new pressure plate hardware and bellhousing mounting hardware, use Loctite Red on the fasteners, and torque the pressure plate bolts to spec, and make sure that the bellhousing bolts are torqued to or slightly above spec after proper installation.

It is not uncommon for transmission bolts or pressure plate bolts to loosen up. I would check the torque wrench you are using (have it calibrated) to make sure it is accurate, so it doesn't happen again. There is no need for ARP bellhousing bolts or oilpan bolts, etc. That is just a waste of money. Head studs, main studs, and rod bolts are much more important in your situation.

As for the 100mm girdle, there is no real need for it. Run your motor as it currently sits if it requires no maintenence. Replace the clutch if it is glazed or out-of-flat.



I would get your weight down on the car, and get it tuned for 30-35psi on race gas. You will have a very serious car that is FAST. There is no reason why you should re-do everything to shoot for a very expensive goal when your setup will be capable of 500-600AWHP and be much more reliable.

Tune the car, and enjoy it for a while.

 

[mikelv]

No, thank you for the very insightful and useful information. It is reassuring to know when you're making sound decisions.

Replace the clutch if it is glazed or out-of-flat.

Should I just stay with a 2600 replacement disc? I'm not so sure on that? Clutchmasters or PTT is really the direction I've been thinking of heading.

I'm very hopeful this season so stay tuned for some good numbers.

 

[twicks69]

I would rather see you go with a twin-disk over a Clutch Masters or ACT single disk. Look into the PowerTrain Technologies and the Quarter Master 7.25" twin-disk clutches for our application.

You will see alot of information if you do a search on the subject:

"PTT" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159653
"Powertrain Technology" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159662
"Quartermaster" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159671
"Quarter Master" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159677
"Twin disk" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159679
"Twin disc" http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=6159684


If you end up staying with the single-disk clutch setup utilizing the ACT 2600 pressure plate, I would look at the South Bend Clutch sprung kevlar full-face disk from Horsepowerfreaks.com ($160.00 for the disk). As well, be sure to resurface your pressure plate and inspect for hot-spots or heat-cracking. As well, you would want a fresh surface on your flywheel. Though I would consider this disk to be an effective clutch combination that can handle the power you are looking to run, it is absolutely no where as good as a multi-disk clutch. That is why I would recommend the Quarter Master 7.25" V-Drive twin-disk or the PowerTrain Technologies twin-disk clutch over any other clutch on the market at the price range of $900-1200.00. There are clutches much more expensive than this, and there are clutches less expensive than this. Don't expect a $300 clutch from Ebay to hold 600AWHP for long. As well, there is no need for a $6000 custom Carbon/Carbon 5.5" V-Drive triple-disk clutch from Quarter Master, Tilton, PTT, OS Giken, etc. either.

The QM and PTT 7.25" V-Drive twin-disks are a great product that will work well with your application, while being streetable enough to be run regularly, and have the heat capacity to withstand normal clutch slipping during stop-and-go driving and the abuse of drag racing on an AWD car. They are both servicable and economical to repair/rebuild. It is about as close to "the last clutch you are going to ever need to buy" as you can get. It will still require rebuilding as it is a wearable part just like any clutch. There is absolutely NO clutch on the market that is THE end-all-be-all clutch.

 

[mikelv]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100% as far as going with a twin disc setup. I’ve been planning and saving up the money for a while now and never planned to run a 2600 or any single disc setup for that matter. I didn’t even want to run it in the first place, but it was free.
That’s the main reason why I asked you about your original posting regarding the replacement clutch.

Thanks again!!