[RESOLVED] rocker arms loose or something??? W/ PICTURES

[rob1621]

I took off the valve cover and i was checking things out and noticed that the rocker arms (i think that them) on the top furthest to the left ones are loose and have a gap if they aren't being turned over, idk how to explain it really good, so im gonna post some pictures.....



I mean all the other ones are touching all the time, but these two touch when you turn it then don't, and are all loose and you can wiggle em around.


But yeah the pictures.....are kind big so ill do it in a different post.

 

[rob1621]

<a href="http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/?action=view&current=rockerarm4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/rockerarm4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/?action=view&current=rockerarm3-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/rockerarm3-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


<a href="http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/?action=view&current=rockerarm2-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q78/rob1621/rockerarm2-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Those are your lifters and they are hydraulic meaning that as the motor runs and builds oil pressure these pump up and should take away the gap you are seeing between the roller and the camshaft lobe. They should pump up once you run the motor again. While you've got it apart you might want to replace the lifters with new ones since they are known for having problems "pumping up" and being noisy.

 

[rb25det510]

could be a collapsed lifter, try and push down on it and see if it goes down at all/ see if you can pull the lifter up (the lifter is the thing that i under the rocker arm that the rocker arm rocks on) and by pull up i mean pull the tip out of the lifter iself. the cam lobe might be crazy ground down also but your best bet is a collapsed lifter. how may mile s are on the motor those are stock cams to right? (they look all nasty and have that aged oil where thet don't get touched).

 

[tqmx1]

The roller on the rocker has failed. Check to make sure the cam lobe has not been . If you caucht it early enough (no cam dammage) remove the rocker and the lifter deflate the lifter and reinstall the lifter and replace the rocker with a good 4g63 DOHC rocker and go.

The bits that broke off the rocker are big enough thet will harmlessle fall into the pan. If it chewed up the cam that will have to be replaced also.

I had it happen to our 91TSI about 70K ago and after being changed no further problems

 

[rob1621]

ok gravedigger, you're saying once i run the motor they will be ok? and the rb25...whatever, you're saying it could be a collapsed lifter, so do i get just new lifters for that? and tgmx1, you're saying the roller on the rock has failed? so what do i exactly do now? how do i check which one of these it is?


btw my car has 127500miles, and what should i do about the old oil on there?

 

[slcorman91]

How does the car run. Is it loud, noisy, run horrible. That is a nice size gap in between the rocker arm and cam. Are you sure you dont have a bent valve? It is possible you have collapsed lifters. I would buy a set of 3g lifters. I picked mine up for $90.00.

 

[rob1621]

ok well im looking at the lifters, all of are good and have contact at one point, but it i turn the sprocket, the two lifters on the outside top, stop touching the rocker. There is no visible damage to either of them. they look fine just like all the others except these wiggle around it the rocker arms are turned in a certain position. It all looks ok, no wear or anything.

well we havent started because all the belts are off cause we were trying to fix something and ran into this. But my dad was looking at it when i was at work and he said he started it before, heard a weird noise and the car shut off. Turned it back on and said it was running weird. We suspected it might be a bent valve, but we arnt a 100% sure how to check that.

 

[steve]

Also measure the heights of the valve tips. If they match the other valves then the lash adjusters have to be collapsed or the cam lobes worn. If they aren't the same height then the valves may be bent.

 

[rob1621]

ok well i took out the lifters, and im guessing they are supposed to be able to be pushed in and out with my hands, but mine dont. idk if they are faulty or rusted so they can move, but is this supposed to be able to move?

 

[desolateboosted]

I just had this exact problem with my car. It ended being a collapsed lifter.

 

[Mr Peepers]

They shouldn't be able to be compressed, certainly not with your hands.

It looks to me like the lifter is pushing up almost all the way on the rocker arm, meaning it tried to compensate for a bent valve that isn't seating. Hopefully not

Bleed them before you put them back in or you may ending up bending a valve if you haven't already, and it may be some dirt that made them collapse, who knows. Doesn't cost anything to try.
YouTube - Bleeding 4g63 lifters

A compression test would be a good idea once it's back together as well.

 

[TheBagelGuy]

Is your timing belt loose? Did it jump timing? If so, then you may have a bent valve. I hope not, but it is possible. I don't think the lifters are the problem because they look like they are completely extended and the valve doesn't look like it is sitting high enough for some reason. And I don't think that the roller on the rocker arm failed because the contact points still look very smooth.

 

[kenamond]

The lash adjusters are spring-loaded and should spring up to take any slack up in the cam/rocker/valve assembly. This doesn't require oil pressure (it requires oil pressure to do its job in normal operation, but the spring should fully extend the adjuster when it's just sitting there).

It may be fully extended and the problem is either with the cam, roller, or valve, but if all of those are okay, I'd blame the lash adjuster. I'm suspecting that you bent the intake valves on #4, though.

EDIT: A thing you should be aware of...those rockers can come out if you get too much free space between the cam/roller. There's nothing holding them in except the lash adjuster, the valve spring compression, and some lips and so-forth on the underside of the rocker body...I'll post a close-up...

 

[rob1621]

ok so i found out it was a bent valve...which makes me wanna cry.


So what do you guys recommend i do now?

 

[TheBagelGuy]

ok so i found out it was a bent valve...which makes me wanna cry.


So what do u guys recommend i do now?

I'm sorry man, that sucks. But its not that bad of a job to do. Just buy a set of standard sized stainless steel valves, and a set of valve stem seals, then pull the head, and drop it off at your local machine shop, and tell them that you need to replace your valves. They wont charge out the ass to do it, just like $150-$200 for the labor.

But before you do that, I would check to see why your engine jumped time

 

[rob1621]

mmmk, how do i check WHY it jumped?

And cant i just replace the valves my self? i took off the head and all that, took out the valves, all are straight but 2. so cant i just buy the valves and vale stems and put them in myself?

 

[Mr Peepers]

If the valves are bent, the valve guides may be cracked as well. That's something you DON'T want to try replacing yourself, plus they need to be machined since they are no longer be within spec after being pressed into the head. You could browse around for a 2g turbo head in the classifieds, it may end up being cheaper than machine work. Also, check the tops of your pistons, if the damage is minor, just clean off any burrs left from the valves coming into contact. This is the cheap way of doing it.

Jumped timing could be caused by debris/contaminants, worn out tensioner and/or improper adjustment, even the timing belt being installed a few teeth off to begin with. Balance shaft belts are known to take the timing belt with it as well. If you do repair/replace the head, be sure to get all new timing components and timing belt+ all other required gaskets of course. It would be wise to at least have a machine shop check the surface of the head.

 

[rob1621]

What do you guys think about these valves....


eBay Motors: 2.0 Eclipse, Galant & Turbo 4G63 Intake Exhaust Valves (item 360024662283 end time Feb-26-08 17:30:52 PST)


also should i replace all the gaskets since the head is off?

 

[Mr Peepers]

If there are only two bent valves, try PartsDinosaur, Phoenix, Arizona, wholesale engine parts and kits

 

[rob1621]

ok one more question.

I found out that one of the valve springs are shorter than all the others. Should i be concernd, and if i am to replace them, do i replace em all, or just that one? where is a good place to get them?

 

[Mr Peepers]

What made you check under the valve cover in the first place?

Are the valve springs removed from the head or are you comparing them while still attached to the valve stem?

 

[rob1621]

i have the springs out, and when i line em up one is shorter than the rest. my question is, is this normail,do i replace just one, all 16, or what.


took off the head ### the timing belt jump ### the tensioner is bad. so we had to check if the valves were still good,

 

[Mr Peepers]

That seems a bit odd to me. To be safe, I would definitely try sourcing a fairly priced set of new OEM springs or go with an aftermarket set if you plan on upgrading to more aggressive cams (for insurance).

OEM springs in good condition (which it seems yours are not) have treated people pretty well even with higher than stock rpm and slightly more aggressive cams, but if you already have to replace them, why not kick out a little extra change for more headroom later?
BC springs and titanium retainers are reasonably priced. I can't remember which vendor had the best price anymore, and there are more options than just them, they're just what I was looking at for my particular setup.

Think about what you want to do with your setup and plan accordingly.

 

[rob1621]

well should i replace all of them, or just 1 or 2?