[RESOLVED] Not a happy camper today.

[baker27]

Well, I just got my dsm a couple of months ago for a fun to drive daily driver, and I love it. Great car, fun to drive, nice power when you want it and good fuel efficiency otherwise. Wouldn't have had it any other way. Up until today I have had no real problems, but today when I was going to pay rent for my apartment, I am pretty sure my car experienced the dreaded crankwalk . I was only going about 20 mph at about 2k rpms, if that, and all the sudden when I made my right turn into the parking lot of the main office my engine made a sound like a jackhammer and bogged down rapidly.

Of course I killed it in about a second or two, but I really had no idea what had happened. I thought maybe my ball joint separated and it was all because of that or maybe even transfer case lockup, so I threw the parking brake on and went to inspect everything. Wheel was where it should be, nothing laying on the ground under or behind my car, no fluids dumping out.. Just steam coming off the downpipe (it was raining), and the sound of coolant gurgling that I usually get when I shut it off. So, my next thought was either its the t-case or crankwalk.. I was praying for a t-case failure. So I did what I probably shouldn't have done and turned the car back on to see if the noise was engine or drivetrain and it instantly started making the jackhammer noise again and it got worse quick. It was only on about a second before I turned it back off, but I am pretty sure it is crankwalk (correct me if I am wrong).

I got it towed to my building to park it out of the way and checked the timing belt, thats all fine.. No fluids leaking, It wasn't overheating when it happened and the oil pressure was fine, no lights until it happened.. The clutch didn't do the drop on left turn thing at all leading up to this either.. I have been watching for that. So I guess that I am pretty f***ed, eh?

I think my next course of action is to go get a 6 bolt block and crank and all those other parts from a local junkyard (he quoted the parts at $200! I'm excited about that) and I found an awd 6 bolt flywheel on the classifieds for $40.. used stock, but I don't really have a need for anything more of now. Is there anything I should be worried about besides whats on the Magnus guide to a 6 bolt swap? I don't need a new clutch or tranny/t-case, do I? I just don't want to do this wrong... I was kinda hoping the 7-bolt would live a little longer so I had more time to get acquainted with my engine, but I guess things don't always go the way you want them to and I am going to have to dive right in to this.

Oh well... thats my story, any input would be appreciated. I still love my dsm, btw.. Just need to give her a heart transplant now, hah.

-Adam Baker

 

[gorf]

jackhammer sound? Sounds like a rod, rod bearing, swallowed a piston......

 

[baker27]

Yeah, like a loud knocking noise... You think its a rod?

 

[interex]

This is the problem with people and DSMs... They run the shit out of them and then "OH NO CRANKWALK!" when it doesnt hold up for too long.

 

[Jeff@Slowboy]

I agree that it is probably a rod. Its hard to diagnose over the internet but that is where my money would be. The Magnus guide is very good for the 6 bolt swap, but if its not walked just re-build it. My 95 went 158k before I took the 7 bolt out and it was MINT inside.

Oliver
[email protected]

 

[baker27]

Actually, I have babied my car, so I don't really appreciate the accusations.. I was just looking for advice, I did state that in my post, did I not? I wasn't 100% sure it was and was open to suggestions. And now I have one.. So when I take it apart either this weekend or in the next few weeks, I will see exactly what the problem is and know what to do to fix it.

So if its a rod, isn't there a potential for some block damage still? Just wondering what to expect when I open her up.

 

[silverbullett]

This just like what happened to my cousin's 97 GST. Turned out to be a rod bearing. He drove it like that for 4 miles back home. It destroyed the crank. Not saying yours is ruined though. That's just what happened to him. Fast-forward 6 months and now it's a 2.3L 7-bolt ready to be dropped in. He looked at it as an excuse to build the bada$$ motor he always wanted. Good luck with yours bro.

 

[baker27]

Well, I guess I am hoping for the rod being the issue and that there isn't substantial damage from me starting the engine back up.. Thank you guys for the speedy replies.
Do 6 bolt rods work in a 7 bolt engine? Just wondering because I have heard those are beefier and I know I can get some used ones from a junkyard.. Or do you suggest getting new rods?

 

[interex]

Well, I just got my dsm a couple of months ago for a fun to drive daily driver, and I love it. Great car, fun to drive, nice power

Trust me I don't need anything else to tell me how you drove your car. I'm just saying the first thing most new DSMers say when their engine starts to knock is "CRANKWALK" and it's soooooo over rated. I've just seen it too many times, I've read too many people going on and on about how they babied their DSM, they didn't get on it, and it just died, and I am just so sick of thinking B/S!.

I do wish you the best of luck and hope your engine swap, or rebuild works well for you.

 

[wolvee123]

Actually, I have babied my car, so I don't really appreciate the accusations.. I was just looking for advice, I did state that in my post, did I not? I wasn't 100% sure it was and was open to suggestions. And now I have one.. So when I take it apart either this weekend or in the next few weeks, I will see exactly what the problem is and know what to do to fix it.

So if its a rod, isn't there a potential for some block damage still? Just wondering what to expect when I open her up.

The sound would make me think a rod but either way the engine needs to come out and be rebuilt I guess it doesn't really matter. A few of the vendors here have some really good prices.

 

[baker27]

Trust me I don't need anything else to tell me how you drove your car. I'm just saying the first thing most new DSMers say when their engine starts to knock is "CRANKWALK" and it's soooooo over rated. I've just seen it too many times, I've read too many people going on and on about how they babied their DSM, they didn't get on it, and it just died, and I am just so sick of thinking B/S!.

I do wish you the best of luck and hope your engine swap, or rebuild works well for you.

Not saying I never got on it, just 80% of the time I drove it like an old lady, I shifted at 3k rpms and stayed out of boost probably about half of the time for gas efficiency reasons. But I understand where you are coming from, sorry if I gave the wrong message.. But I just don't want people to think I am a leadfoot that doesn't think about what he's doing to his car and then is pissed at the car for f'ing up when something goes wrong.

Also, thank you for the luck, I appreciate it.

 

[baker27]

Well this whole thread is a relief to me now.. It sounds like the general consensus is a rod and not the crankshaft... A buddy said that if you spin a rod bearing, it usually ends up in the oil pan and it is a good idea to check that, is this true with our cars?

 

[Jeff99GS]

Well this whole thread is a relief to me now.. It sounds like the general consensus is a rod and not the crankshaft... A buddy said that if you spin a rod bearing, it usually ends up in the oil pan and it is a good idea to check that, is this true with our cars?

Haha sorry to laugh...it's just funny that anyone new to DSM blames EVERYTHING on CRANKWALK hahaha Somebody can just run out of gas....and right away the first thing they say is "it's CRANKWALK".

If you spun a rod bearing the crank is garbage anyway IMO

And It sounds like a spun rod bearing to me.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Well this whole thread is a relief to me now.. It sounds like the general consensus is a rod and not the crankshaft... A buddy said that if you spin a rod bearing, it usually ends up in the oil pan and it is a good idea to check that, is this true with our cars?

No, your buddy is wrong. Don't take car advice from him from now on... Okay?

When a bearing spins, it does just that, it spins. It most cases one half of the bearing goes under the other (at least in all the spun bearings I've seen) To find a bearing in the oil pan, you would have to break the rod bolts off, which would be a much more serious problem. (unless he was talking about bearing shavings, which would look like glitter in the oil pan)

But it definatly sounds to me like you spun a bearing. Either that or you bent a rod. When I bent a rod, (was comming around a corner when I got the symptoms) it sounded like someone threw a bunch of rocks in my oil pan. The piston skirt was hitting the rod every stroke.

Any how, good luck, and don't reuse the crank if its bad. Don't listen to ANY machinist if they say they can repair it, because they can't do it... properly at least...

 

[deviousgst]

Well this whole thread is a relief to me now.. It sounds like the general consensus is a rod and not the crankshaft... A buddy said that if you spin a rod bearing, it usually ends up in the oil pan and it is a good idea to check that, is this true with our cars?

yah, its the same..drop ## oil pan and check from there..

 

[baker27]

No, your buddy is wrong. Don't take car advice from him from now on... Okay?

When a bearing spins, it does just that, it spins. It most cases one half of the bearing goes under the other (at least in all the spun bearings I've seen) To find a bearing in the oil pan, you would have to break the rod bolts off, which would be a much more serious problem. (unless he was talking about bearing shavings, which would look like glitter in the oil pan)

But it definatly sounds to me like you spun a bearing. Either that or you bent a rod. When I bent a rod, (was comming around a corner when I got the symptoms) it sounded like someone threw a bunch of rocks in my oil pan. The piston skirt was hitting the rod every stroke.

Any how, good luck, and don't reuse the crank if its bad. Don't listen to ANY machinist if they say they can repair it, because they can't do it... properly at least...

Haha, sounds good.

I guess I can look for shavings then.. We are going to have to pull the engine one way or another though, right? So its more just a look to see if anything is obvious.

Well, it was definitely knocking very loudly... but I cant imagine how I would bend a rod at such low rpms.. Does that just sort of happen?

Does dsmgraveyard or anywhere else carry single stock rods? I dont exactly have the money to replace all four rods with aftermarket ones and then have to buy pistons. I guess I might be happy with even 4 stock rods, if I could find that.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Jeff99GS]

You should just find a shortblock on craigslist or something. If the rod bearing spun, then the main bearings aren't far behind.
Especially NOW after all the bearing chips went thru the oil pump and got to the main, and the rest of the rod bearing. It can also destroy the bearings in the Turbo.

 

[baker27]

Ouch... That doesn't sound good.. no way to flush the system then?

I can get a shortblock from the local junkyard pretty cheap, it will just require me to overhaul some things, I'm sure...

 

[Jeff99GS]

Yeah you can just flush it out and rebuild it. Sometimes its just Easier/Cheaper to get a new engine. Its up to you. Since you didnt run it LONG after the knocking started Im sure the turbo and head are probably fine.

You'll have to just drop the pan and inspect the motor. It could even be a balance shaft bearing.

 

[baker27]

And thats not as major an issue, but still going to have the problems with the shavings in oil, right? Hm. Well I am not sure what I will find, I guess... Hopefully its not a massacre in the block when I open it up.

Thanks for all the input and help guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[T is for TURBO]

And thats not as major an issue, but still going to have the problems with the shavings in oil, right? Hm. Well I am not sure what I will find, I guess... Hopefully its not a massacre in the block when I open it up.

Thanks for all the input and help guys, I really appreciate it.

If I were in your shoes, and it WAS a bearing failure. I would, at minimum pull the eninge, take it to a machine shop and have them check out the block. If you have low miles, it was probably due to poor maintenance.(previous owners are usually the cuplrit) in which case, the cyclinders MAY need to be bored, or at least honed. If the block checks out, I would get a new crank, bearings (main and rod bearings) oil pump with new oil pump gears, and definatly and new oil filter housing, as they are notorious for holding on to chunks of bearing material even after they have been flushed. Also, new rings and have the pistons checked for roundness. Since it is out, I would elimante the balance shafts and get the head milled and block decked. It would also be a good time to have the head rebuilt but that's not necessary if it was in good working order, and replace major gaskets (head and main seal particularly). Rods are usually okay, but they can bend. I personally bent two rods, each from seperate engines.

It may cost a little more, I don't know what your budget is, but I will speak for many of us, don't cheap out... Do it right the first time, it will save to in the long run. Also, it should go with out saying, but this would be a great time to do the T-belt, T-belt pulley and idler, water pump and tensioner.

Hope this helps.

Or like a few others have said, just find a new/used shortblock. Your head is 'probably' okay, as they are fairly rugged...

 

[baker27]

If I were in your shoes, and it WAS a bearing failure. I would, at minimum pull the eninge, take it to a machine shop and have them check out the block. If you have low miles, it was probably due to poor maintenance.(previous owners are usually the cuplrit) in which case, the cyclinders MAY need to be bored, or at least honed. If the block checks out, I would get a new crank, bearings (main and rod bearings) oil pump with new oil pump gears, and definatly and new oil filter housing, as they are notorious for holding on to chunks of bearing material even after they have been flushed. Also, new rings and have the pistons checked for roundness. Since it is out, I would elimante the balance shafts and get the head milled and block decked. It would also be a good time to have the head rebuilt but that's not necessary if it was in good working order, and replace major gaskets (head and main seal particularly). Rods are usually okay, but they can bend. I personally bent two rods, each from seperate engines.

It may cost a little more, I don't know what your budget is, but I will speak for many of us, don't cheap out... Do it right the first time, it will save to in the long run. Also, it should go with out saying, but this would be a great time to do the T-belt, T-belt pulley and idler, water pump and tensioner.

Hope this helps.

Or like a few others have said, just find a new/used shortblock. Your head is 'probably' okay, as they are fairly rugged...

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I really wish I could afford to do all of this, but I simply have no money right now.. I am tapping into my college loan right now just to get her running again because i need a daily driver. Come this summer, when I have a job again and an income, I will probably pull the engine again when i paint it and I will go through and do these things.. Hopefully it all holds up until then. I will replace the oil filter housing most likely.. I suppose I probably should do the oil pump also, for good measure. However, the machine work would probably put me in a bit over my head right now.

Doesn't balance shaft delete cause vibrations through the car while running? I know it eliminates rotating mass so you lose less energy so you get more where you need it to go, but I am not making a race machine (not yet at least). I just want my dd back, hah. If it has other practical applications, let me know though.. I just kinda need something comfortable to drive to school and back and home and back for now.

Damn being a poor college student.. I was hoping by not doing any performance mods that I would avoid things breaking on me. Guess it happens with aged cars with questionable histories though. Thanks for the help though, TURBO. I appreciate all the advice I can get.

 

[crimsonGST]

"OH NO, NOT CRANKWALK!" Really doubt it was that seeing as only about 5% of the time it really is. Maybe your one of the chosen ones. I would not jump to the conclusion of it being a rod bearing though.

IMO find yourself a shortblock and go ahead and have the head rebuilt at the same time. Better safe than sorry!

They talk in this thread about what a spun rod bearing would sound like.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/280783-spun-rod-bearing-loud-lifter-tick.html
It's not even close to the noise your describing.

 

[Defiant]

my engine made a sound like a jackhammer and bogged down rapidly.

Doesn't sound like a bearing to me. You jumped timing.

 

[bastarddsm]

Doesn't sound like a bearing to me. You jumped timing.

but if its timing would it start right back as the op said it would?