Replacing head. Need some advice on how to increase hp

[juntjoo]

I'm completely new at this so I just need advice on how/where to learn about tuning/upgrading, and since i'm replacing my cylinder head I figured now is a good time to start before I start putting things back together. I just want to know what I can do without doing a turbo conversion to get an extra 50+ hp. I was thinking maybe some upgrades to the intake and exhaust maybe ignition components. Just some advice on where to start. Everything is stock btw. Thanks.

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[91stocker]

Any difference between the 1g and 2g 4g63 heads?

Yes, the 2g head has smaller ports and smaller head studs. There is some modification required to use the 2g head on a 1g 6 bolt block. Besides the gains are disputable since the jury is still out on which is better.

Also, suppose one day I decide to go turbo, maybe now would be best to just grab the turbo head. Ebay has one with gasket set from J&C enterprises for $400 including shipping.

You have the turbo head...

I guess you missed post #16 where jusmx141 laid it out for you. Or where he mentioned the stock head made 850whp. You will not find any hp in head work on a n/a application.

And if I never go turbo, what... will I just end up with more low end torque and less higher end?

No, you will have no low end and no top end. 140hp is nothing to brag about, and you'll be lucky to break 200hp on a full out race build.

 

[goodbye]

Don't spend a penny trying to upgrade without doing a turbo conversion. The parts are dirt cheap, it's simple, there's no reason not to do it. You'd be completely wasting your money trying to add any horsepower to that engine NA.

 

[jcarmichael]

Like everyone else said no point in doing head work to it. if you do convert over to a turbo, you will have to look into turbo pistons and rods as well and in a na motor it doesn't have the oil squirters. so unless you go to forged pistons that could create an issue. theres a little more work to be done then just throwing the turbo on and going with it. If you choose to take that route, if you want more horsepower you will have to. Do as much research as you can.

I just got a 6 bolt na motor to build for my car and the guy fried the pistons in it not sure if something catastrophic happened or the oil squirters are just that important.

 

[juntjoo]

Like everyone else said no point in doing head work to it. if you do convert over to a turbo, you will have to look into turbo pistons and rods as well and in a na motor it doesn't have the oil squirters. so unless you go to forged pistons that could create an issue. theres a little more work to be done then just throwing the turbo on and going with it. If you choose to take that route, if you want more horsepower you will have to. Do as much research as you can.

I just got a 6 bolt na motor to build for my car and the guy fried the pistons in it not sure if something catastrophic happened or the oil squirters are just that important.

No, I HAVE to replace my head. It's shot. And I'm aware if the turbo conversion process, and down the road I'll want the option to be cheaper (than having to replace the head again) So..if I get the turbo head, will it be compatible with my N/T IM?

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[1990AWD]

No such thing as a n/t intake manifold.

 

[jcarmichael]

No such thing as a n/t intake manifold.

yea there is the n/t intake manifold doesnt have the extra nipple for the bov, as stated above.

however to the other thing the only difference between 1g 4g63 n/t heads and 4g63 turbo heads our the cams. some ppl run the n/t cams on a turbo setup with no issues. for long term I would suggest getting turbo cams but from what I have read it doesn't hurt it any.

 

[1990AWD]

yea there is the n/t intake manifold doesnt have the extra nipple for the bov, as stated above.

Exactly, an extra nipple for the BOV. woooooo big deal

 

[jcarmichael]

Exactly, an extra nipple for the BOV. woooooo big deal

nothing you can't drill and tap yourself same as doing a fitting for a map sensor. just drilled and tapped a fitting in a cpl days ago for a map sensor.

 

[1990AWD]

nothing you can't drill and tap yourself same as doing a fitting for a map sensor. just drilled and tapped a fitting in a cpl days ago for a map sensor.

exactly my point all along. didn't you get my sarcasm in my last post?

 

[jcarmichael]

yea I picked up on it just thought I would explain it so if any one does a google search and comes across this thread.

got the sarcasm though def. figured ppl should know there is a small difference nothing that can't be fixed/added in 5 mins and about a 3 dollar part.

 

[juntjoo]

Yes, the 2g head has smaller ports and smaller head studs. There is some modification required to use the 2g head on a 1g 6 bolt block. Besides the gains are disputable since the jury is still out on which is better.




You have the turbo head...

I guess you missed post #16 where jusmx141 laid it out for you. Or where he mentioned the stock head made 850whp. You will not find any hp in head work on a n/a application.



No, you will have no low end and no top end. 140hp is nothing to brag about, and you'll be lucky to break 200hp on a full out race build.

No,I was never under the impression I'd get any significant gains with a different head. Just trying to figure out if I should get a "turbo" head for possible future turbo conversion, which apparently doesn't exist. And if I could get close to 200(w?)hp I'd be more than satisfied. I've been pushing around around 130hp all of my driving life. 16yrs

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[juntjoo]

Don't spend a penny trying to upgrade without doing a turbo conversion. The parts are dirt cheap, it's simple, there's no reason not to do it. You'd be completely wasting your money trying to add any horsepower to that engine NA.

The parts are cheap, but DON'T spend a penny?

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[juntjoo]

Okay thanks. I got a better picture now. I'll grab that head I found on Ebay probably then figure out what minor mods/upgrades I can do with the intake and exhaust(air filter to throttle body & right after the exhaust mani to tail pipe and ecu??) that can carry over to a future turbo conversion. I'll start by going on a diet...

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[91stocker]

No,I was never under the impression I'd get any significant gains with a different head. Just trying to figure out if I should get a "turbo" head for possible future turbo conversion, which apparently doesn't exist. And if I could get close to 200(w?)hp I'd be more than satisfied. I've been pushing around around 130hp all of my driving life. 16yrs

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Stock turbo set up can probably be grabbed up for $200. I've scrapped some stock turbo stuff because it wouldnt sell. $100 for a 14, another 100 for stock smic, turbo water pipe and lines, etc.

Not bad for what will work out to be a 100hp gain.

Anything other then the turbo conversion is just pissing in the wind.

 

[juntjoo]

Well what do you make of the thread alluded to earlier on that "trip to 200hp" for the ... what's it called... the a420 or something which someone said also applied to the 4g63? That thread is about about bringing up the power on the car without turbo.

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[GSXftw]

Electric Supercharger 5 PSI Vortex
TADA!!!!

 

[juntjoo]

Electric Supercharger 5 PSI Vortex
TADA!!!!

That looks kinda cool. Anyone ever use it?

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[GSXftw]

Yes. Do it.
You wanted 50 horse without a turbo, there ya go

 

[jcarmichael]

Electric Supercharger 5 PSI Vortex
TADA!!!!

I would personally spend the 200 on a 14b turbo setup, for one its the smarter route as you give yourself room to expand in the future. #2 that thing just looks pointless to me, I am sure it would give you some benefits but nothing a turbo setup wouldn't give you plus more.

 

[juntjoo]

I would personally spend the 200 on a 14b turbo setup, for one its the smarter route as you give yourself room to expand in the future. #2 that thing just looks pointless to me, I am sure it would give you some benefits but nothing a turbo setup wouldn't give you plus more.

$200? With a turbo charger I'd have to change my pistons and rods too no? All that for $200?

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[gusu]

You wouldn't need to change pistons or rods to make 200hp. But then again I don't know how healthy your motor is and how much boost it would take, so you may have to.

You'd need a tuning solution and other than that I don't know too much about boosting a 1g nt. Hell I don't even know what tuning options you'd have.

 

[91stocker]

$200? With a turbo charger I'd have to change my pistons and rods too no? All that for $200?

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No you wouldn't need to change the bottom end for a 14b. The n/t has slightly higher compression so you will make more power on the same boost, which is nice. But the pistons are weaker. I've still seen people make 400hp on stock n/t bottom end though.

Just dig around in the classifieds, maybe in the part out section. And the local scrap yards. There are quite a few odds and ends. $200 is on the very low side really. Realistically it could be closer to $600.

Depends on the price you pay for the 14b itself with a manifold, o2 housing w/sensor, and turbo ecu. That will be the most of the cost.

The rest is the kind of stuff people give away or scrap. Like a 1g maf, stock smic with rubber intake hoses, stock 1g manifolds are cheap, so are 450cc injectors. If the local junk yard has a 1g gst in there, then your golden.

The only part that can be difficult is the wiring. Like wiring in a resistor pack for the 450's, and running a wire from the ecu to the maf.

Here's a parts list and write up:
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/freestyle/turboconversion.html

The parts list is a little redundant as most of the items on the list will come with another on the list. So dont let the list scare you off haha.

Resistor pack diagram.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...stor-pack-wiring-1g-n-t-turbo-conversion.html

Another write up, with pics:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...48231-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

Conversation thread, with common problems and questions:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1g-n-t-tech/55457-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

 

[GSXftw]

I would personally spend the 200 on a 14b turbo setup, for one its the smarter route as you give yourself room to expand in the future. #2 that thing just looks pointless to me, I am sure it would give you some benefits but nothing a turbo setup wouldn't give you plus more.

Yeah... I was pretty much joking with this . Youre not gonna find an easy 50 hp just sitting for you in bolt ons. Step up and get a turbo if thats the hp goal youre wanting

 

[juntjoo]

No you wouldn't need to change the bottom end for a 14b. The n/t has slightly higher compression so you will make more power on the same boost, which is nice. But the pistons are weaker. I've still seen people make 400hp on stock n/t bottom end though.

Just dig around in the classifieds, maybe in the part out section. And the local scrap yards. There are quite a few odds and ends. $200 is on the very low side really. Realistically it could be closer to $600.

Depends on the price you pay for the 14b itself with a manifold, o2 housing w/sensor, and turbo ecu. That will be the most of the cost.

The rest is the kind of stuff people give away or scrap. Like a 1g maf, stock smic with rubber intake hoses, stock 1g manifolds are cheap, so are 450cc injectors. If the local junk yard has a 1g gst in there, then your golden.

The only part that can be difficult is the wiring. Like wiring in a resistor pack for the 450's, and running a wire from the ecu to the maf.

Here's a parts list and write up:
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/freestyle/turboconversion.html

The parts list is a little redundant as most of the items on the list will come with another on the list. So dont let the list scare you off haha.

Resistor pack diagram.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...stor-pack-wiring-1g-n-t-turbo-conversion.html

Another write up, with pics:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...48231-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

Conversation thread, with common problems and questions:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/1g-n-t-tech/55457-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

Thanks. good info.

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[juntjoo]

So the cylinder head for the 4g63 is pretty much the same for all varieties of setups I gather. Would that also apply to whether or not the engine is a 6 or 7 bolt?

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