1G Rebuilt engine won't start unless pedal is floored.

[cficare68]

I rebuilt the engine in my 92 Talon TSi. I have installed everything and I can not get it to start. When I turn the key I can hear the starter but nothing else happens. When I floor the gas pedal the car turns over. However, it is really choppy and dies as soon as I let of the gas. As far as I know it is getting spark cause it will turn over with the throttle pushed in. I also know for sure that I am getting fuel,

At this point I am completely stumped. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had this car for 8 months and I am so close to getting her on the road that I can not stand it.

Thanks in advance

Alan

 

[tenn-gsx]

When you get your laptop connected check your coolant temp in link. If you show something way different than ambient temp then fix that before you go any further. Being that you had to fix it there is a good chance there is still an issue there.

 

[g4ebguy90]

You can Rule out 02 sensors because for one thing the car would start in open loop, and wouldnt take readings form it anyways, until it is warm. The only sensor that would control fuel more then anythng is, coolant temp.

 

[GSXUAL]

Did you set your base idle. Typically if you need to open the throttle to get an engine running it's a faulty idle speed motor. At least that what it sounds like to me.

 

[cficare68]

When you get your laptop connected check your coolant temp in link. If you show something way different than ambient temp then fix that before you go any further. Being that you had to fix it there is a good chance there is still an issue there.

Ok will do. Haven't hooked it up yet cause the battery is out of the car. Ran the wires to hook the WB into the ECU and still in the process of hooking all my gauges back up. It might be the coolant temp though cause when I unplugged it to splice into the factory O2 connector the clip fell out again. I respliced it back together so I will give that a try tomorrow once I get the gauges reinstalled.

Did you set your base idle. Typically if you need to open the throttle to get an engine running it's a faulty idle speed motor. At least that what it sounds like to me.

Not sure if that is the problem. Although I am using a different throttle body now that I did before I rebuild the motor I am still using the same ISM and it worked fine before. I'll keep it in mind though if all else fails.

Ok here is the .elg file from my datalog. I don't even know where to begin with this thing. I am brand new to DSM Link and tuning in general so any help in the simplest form would be very much appreciated.

 

[And_44]

Dead or misadjusted TPS maybe?

 

[cficare68]

Dead or misadjusted TPS maybe?

When I put my Venom intake manifold on it didn't have enough clearance for the TPS. So I had to turn it to make the clip face the passenger side of the car instead of facing the drivers side and then extend the wires. Since I had to turn it around could that have affected it?

 

[And_44]

Yes. The TPS is very sensitive to movement. Its adjusted from factory to be set properly. You are going to have to adjust it according to the manual to get it to read the correct voltage. Even the slightest movement can make the car run like poo.

Follow your manuals adjustmet pocedure to get it back in spec.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Or if it is close you can use the tps calibration that is available in link. Either way you need to start a log with the key on but engine off. Fluctuate the throttle from floored to foot off of the gas. You should read 0%-100% ON link. If you get less than 98 or so or above 0 then you need to adjust till it is within the ranges specified.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Just do a full throttle swing while logging with the car off an Use the Tps adjust in ECMlink speaking of link you still haven't posted a log?

 

[cficare68]

Just do a full throttle swing while logging with the car off an Use the Tps adjust in ECMlink speaking of link you still haven't posted a log?

Check the bottom of the post from 05-03-2011, 09:37 PM and you will see a log that I already posted.

Already did a throttle swing and adjusted the TPS manually and in link. Here are the result from the swing and another log that I got after I adjusted some recommended settings.

From what I can see the TPS is fine. The car still won't start without flooring it though. I know I am getting fuel and spark too. I just can't figure out what else it could be. Maybe IAC or my GM MAF????

 

[MY1GDSM]

What size /type injectors do you have? In the first log looks like you have 345us deadtime But in the rest you have it set to 1000!

I see you enabled the narrow band simulation. But I don't see The Wideband as a Captured Item...Also is it properly hooked up now? I also see you noticed to lock the AIT an Baro in the Second log...

There's a few Items that you should add to your list of captured values... here's a couple Your LC-1, MAF Raw, CombinedFt, LTFT Low & high, Battery volts... I'll add a few later but thouse couple things would help for starters

Also How or where is your GM maf Mounted?
This can greatly affect how it reads an When used in a fashion that they where not designed to be(Mounted in IC pipes) they tend to no read very consistently or at least not liner...

 

[tenn-gsx]

Humor me on something. Losten the bolts that hold your cas in place. Have someone crank the engine while you slowly turn the cas through its whole range of motion. You might just have it too far out.

As is mentioned above. In reality on gasoline your dead time should be arround 350 or so.

 

[cficare68]

What size /type injectors do you have? In the first log looks like you have 345us deadtime But in the rest you have it set to 1000!

I see you enabled the narrow band simulation. But I don't see The Wideband as a Captured Item...Also is it properly hooked up now? I also see you noticed to lock the AIT an Baro in the Second log...

There's a few Items that you should add to your list of captured values... here's a couple Your LC-1, MAF Raw, CombinedFt, LTFT Low & high, Battery volts... I'll add a few later but thouse couple things would help for starters

Also How or where is your GM maf Mounted?
This can greatly affect how it reads an When used in a fashion that they where not designed to be(Mounted in IC pipes) they tend to no read very consistently or at least not liner...

I have 1000cc injectors in the car.

I am running a aftermarket wideband it is the only O2 sensor that I have in the car. However the wideband is wired into the factory O2 in the wire harness. I followed this document when hooking it up. The AIT and Baro is locked in the second one cause I was sent settings based on my mods from someone off of ECM Tunings form for the car. The first log was with no adjustment made what so ever.

ECMTuning User Support Forums

Last time I checked I tried to add LC-1 to my list of values and nothing was showing up. If you look at the log it is reading the front O2 so I am assuming that it is reading out of the wideband. Yes or No? Once I get off work I will add the of items to the datalog list.

My GM Maf is not in the IC piping. It is right after the air filter on the intake pipe. Here is how it is setup:

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Humor me on something. Losten the bolts that hold your cas in place. Have someone crank the engine while you slowly turn the cas through its whole range of motion. You might just have it too far out.

As is mentioned above. In reality on gasoline your dead time should be arround 350 or so.

I know we have tried adjusting the CAS previously but not since I have started messing with the tune. I will give that a shot tonight and let you know.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Make sure you also change your deadtime to aground 350. I have to ask....... why aren't you running your gm maf in the ic piping? The way you have it now will cause issues with the car going rich after a shift since your not recirculating your Bov.

 

[mathewdylang]

i found out the hard way that if your are trying to run a gm maf off a cable through ecmlink you gotta have v3 link.. idk if you have it just chiming in.

 

[cficare68]

Make sure you also change your deadtime to aground 350. I have to ask....... why aren't you running your gm maf in the ic piping? The way you have it now will cause issues with the car going rich after a shift since your not recirculating your Bov.

Also How or where is your GM maf Mounted?
This can greatly affect how it reads an When used in a fashion that they where not designed to be(Mounted in IC pipes) they tend to no read very consistently or at least not liner...

So your saying IC pipe MY1gDSM is saying no IC Pipe???? I put it there cause that was where the stock MAF was.

 

[tenn-gsx]

He wasn't saying no ic pipe. He was saying they can be testy there. My point is that you will have issues if you have the maf there and do not recirculate your Bov.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Your maf is fine where it is now. But like said above you'll have issues with it going rich between shifts but theirs things to work around this(Idle air clamp).

Also what exact injectors are you running 1000cc really means nothing as theirs lots of different brand of injectors that flow differently an have different deadtimes...


Edit:
This is gonna sound stuipd but figured I'd ask.

The pics is an old one correct? an you DO have IC pipes on the Car at the moment? Right???

 

[cficare68]

He wasn't saying no ic pipe. He was saying they can be testy there. My point is that you will have issues if you have the maf there and do not recirculate your Bov.

i found out the hard way that if your are trying to run a gm maf off a cable through ecmlink you gotta have v3 link.. idk if you have it just chiming in.

Your maf is fine where it is now. But like said above you'll have issues with it going rich between shifts but theirs things to work around this(Idle air clamp).

Also what exact injectors are you running 1000cc really means nothing as theirs lots of different brand of injectors that flow differently an have different deadtimes...


Edit:
This is gonna sound stuipd but figured I'd ask.

The pics is an old one correct? an you DO have IC pipes on the Car at the moment? Right???

The GM Maf isn't even going in the car anymore. I just finished ordering Speed Density. I am going to give that a shot instead. So I am going to have to wait for that to come in and install it and go from there. After talking to a few people it sounds like it will be a better option to go with over the MAF.

I have PTE 1000cc injectors.

The picture isn't really old but I do have charge piping now. We've have been putting the car back together over the last 3 weeks.

However I have been asking around and doing some research and have another question. Could the problems I am having at start up be do to a bad ECT failing or not getting enough power??

 

[MY1GDSM]

Let's keep this simple In those logs was your IC piping on?

Either way,
Speed Density is a much better option an what I've ran for many years now... was going to recomend it but it Has a bit steeper learning curve. But, you won't have to worry about the tune changing once you get it set...

Here's a Guide to get you started.

How to Tune a 1G V3 SD ECM LINK with no MAF

ECT? Do you mean Engine coolant temp sensor? if so it looked fine IIRC in the Log... if it wasn't working it would read -74* more then likely.

So you have PTE 980's...? They don't actually make a 1000cc injector an the 980's flow around 940cc @ 43psi base fuel pressure.

 

[cficare68]

Let's keep this simple In those logs was your IC piping on?

Yes it was on. I'm new to tuning not a moron. I just choose that picture cause with my IC piping on its hard to see.

 

[94talontd]

Yes it is plugged in. I actually had to replace the clip cause the wires stripped out of it.



Highly doubt that's the issue. Brand new timing belt and brand new cam gears. Plus we have turned set it at top dead zero several times and I haven't seen any teeth missing.

Mine was a new T belt and tensioner and my belt isn't missing any teeth either. I'm not saying this is your problem, just saying my car did the same exact thing and that was the issue.

 

[dsm0107]

This happened to a friend of mine. We could not start the car unless we pushed the gas pedal down more than 50%. Turned out he had a vacuum leak from the intake manifold. The gasket he had on was incorrect and was not sealing properly. We switched the bad gasket with the right one and car started perfect. Another car we had had a loose IC pipe and same thing happened until we replaced the clamp tightened it up and started up prefect. I would check all vacuum lines and IC piping to see if that will solve your problem. Hope this helps!!!

 

[cficare68]

This happened to a friend of mine. We could not start the car unless we pushed the gas pedal down more than 50%. Turned out he had a vacuum leak from the intake manifold. The gasket he had on was incorrect and was not sealing properly. We switched the bad gasket with the right one and car started perfect. Another car we had had a loose IC pipe and same thing happened until we replaced the clamp tightened it up and started up prefect. I would check all vacuum lines and IC piping to see if that will solve your problem. Hope this helps!!!

I've used the gasket before on my previous engine (its a thermal gasket) so I am not sure if that could be it. I might change it out just to be on the safe side to give it a try.

 

[cficare68]

Sorry I know it has been a while since I have posted. Between waiting on parts to arrive, finals week at school, and moving to a building at work I hadn't had the time to focus on the car. I had decided to get rid of the GM MAF an switch to Speed Density. I had talked to a few people locally that had told me that they had similar issues with the MAF so I decided to give it a try.

I also decided to block off the FIAV and the IAC just in case the IAC was cause the problem.

Also upon looking for vacuum leaks I noticed that it looks as if my thermal intake manifold gasket was bent. I am not sure if it was sealing properly so I replaced it with a felpro gasket to see if that helped.

I have an 2nd ECT sensor as well that I will try to change out if needed. But for the time being I am going to see if what I have already done helps with the problem. Going to try and fire it up tomorrow after I get my speed density installed all the way cause I need a couple more parts.