1G Rebuilt engine won't start unless pedal is floored.

[cficare68]

I rebuilt the engine in my 92 Talon TSi. I have installed everything and I can not get it to start. When I turn the key I can hear the starter but nothing else happens. When I floor the gas pedal the car turns over. However, it is really choppy and dies as soon as I let of the gas. As far as I know it is getting spark cause it will turn over with the throttle pushed in. I also know for sure that I am getting fuel,

At this point I am completely stumped. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had this car for 8 months and I am so close to getting her on the road that I can not stand it.

Thanks in advance

Alan

 

[Indian]

Make sure your timing is set right. It never hurts to double even tripple check.

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Do a compression test on the engine.

 

[yoshi_tony]

timing and compression check if your getting spark in all 4, and firing order, also fuel pressure i had the same problem in one of my rebuild i had 12psi and had to open full throttle for it to kinda turn on same sympthomes as you..

And it should be 35-39psi of fuel pressure...

 

[Alex7747]

Check for spark, fuel, compression, and timing.

 

[cficare68]

Make sure your timing is set right. It never hurts to double even tripple check.

We are far past the triple check on it at this point.

timing and compression check if your getting spark in all 4, and firing order, also fuel pressure i had the same problem in one of my rebuild i had 12psi and had to open full throttle for it to kinda turn on same sympthomes as you..

And it should be 35-39psi of fuel pressure...

Tried adjusting fuel pressure already. We had it up to 40 pounds and still no go.

I'll try the compression check and double check my plugs tomorrow and see if there is a difference.

Check for spark, fuel, compression, and timing.

I do know for sure it is getting fuel. We didn't have the FPR tightened all the way on the return line and it was leaking out a bit. So I am sure that is not a problem.

 

[g4ebguy90]

Sounds like compression, because compression would be highest with the throttle body open the most. A compression test would be the best way to go right now i think.

 

[werx]

You may also have a vacuum leak some where. Have you tried to keep it running or it just keeps dying. If you can get it running enough to listen for a hissing sound, listen and if you hear anything like a hissing from the motor and or turbo plumbing then it's a good sign you have a vacuum leak.

 

[gofer]

VERIFY ECU OPERATION

1. Turn the key to the "ON" position and watch for the CEL to illuminate, it should come on for approximately 5 seconds and then go off. In addition to watching the CEL, also watch the stock boost gauge, the needle should move halfway up the gauge.
   • It NEVER lights up: The ECU might have a blown sensor ground or the 20A MOTOR fuse, in the fusebox under the hood, is blown or missing (my friends like taking mine). The 2g ECU sensor ground is Pin 92 (2g ECU Pinout) and can be visually checked by pulling the casing off the ECU and looking at the solder run. Below is a picture of a REPAIRED sensor ground that was blown, thanks ECMLink! You can check continuity with a multimeter between pin 92 and the solder point where the red arrows pointing.
   • It DOESN'T go off: The ECU has a DTC stored on it and you'll want to hook up a scanner to see what it is.

VERIFY SPARK AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. You'll want to check that spark is getting to the engine as its turning over. Everyone has their own way to do this however, I've found the easiest is to use two people to make it effective. One person should be sitting in the front driverseat to crank the car over, the other should be under the hood watching for the spark. To do it, remove a spark plug (start at 1 or 4 and work your way down the engine) and plug it back into the plug wire after its out of the motor. While holding the spark plug wire, ground the threads of the spark plug on the valve cover, then cue the person to crank the car over. Verify that there is spark between the electrodes, then repeat for the other (3) cylinders and write down your results.
   You might need to just swap plug wires depending on the model year of your 2g and the CAS you're using, follow the below figure and make sure they are hooked up correctly.
   • None or TWO have spark: Continue to step (2).
   • ALL have spark: Jump to VERIFY FUEL.
2. Its time to start testing a few sensors, pay close attention to the following links and how-to's. Its very easy to skip a step, which will give you different results, pay attention to detail and take your time.
   • Coil Pack testing
   • Power Transistor (PT) testing
   • 1g CAS testing / 2g CAS & CPS testing
   • Noise Filter (Capacitor)- Reduces "noise" created by the coil/alternator on 12v power line. Ensure its plugged in and grounded/bolted to something so its secured in your engine bay.

VERIFY FUEL AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. First you'll want to make sure you're even getting gas to the fuel rail, once again you'll want someone helping you do this. Remove the fuel line going to the passengerside of the fuel rail, be careful doing it because if there is pressure in the rail it will spray fuel. Once you remove the line going into the rail, put it into a small gas tank (or old cup if you don't mind ruining it) and have the person helping you crank the car over a few times.
   • NO fuel:Check for 12v at your fuel pump connector when the engines cranking, you'll want to check for voltage at the pin going to the BLK/BLU wire.
     • 12v is there: Replace the fuel pump.
     • 12v is NOT there: Pull your MFI/MPI relay and test it OR replace it.
   • Fuel: If there is fuel to the rail then put the line back on (make sure the o-ring isn't cut) and tighten it up so it doesn't leak. Un-bolt the fuel rail from the head, leaving the injectors in the rail and plugged in, after you remove the rail. Set the injectors on the head, facing the front of the car, once again placing them toward a bucket so it can catch the fuel as it sprays out. Have someone crank the car and watch the injectors, ensure ALL of them have a nice spray pattern and pulse as the engines cranking. Wearing eye protection while doing this check isn't a bad idea either, there is a chance you get sprayed with fuel.
     • Some or NONE work: Don't give up yet, there are still a few things to test with a multimeter to make sure its working.
       • Test your injector resistor pack
         
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       • Measure resistance across the injector terminal with the plug disconnected, it should be 2-3 ohms across it.
     • ALL of the injectors work: Put everything back together, making sure none of the o-rings are torn, and go to the next step.
     
     CHECK MECHANICAL TIMING
     1. 2g timing belt replacement
        
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     2. If you've got a '97-'99 CAS, check that the camshaft position cylinder is oriented the way it should be on the intake cam. The paint stripe on it should be FACING the CAS when the engine is at TDC, like so...
        
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     3. If you've got a 1g CAS, make sure its at TDC with the engine and the timing marks on it are lined up as well.
        
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     IF EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE SO FAR HAS CHECKED GOOD DO A COMPRESSION CHECK.
     1. Disconnect your spark plug cables, spark plugs, & CPS connector to disable all fuel/spark getting to the motor.
     2. Thread in the compression tester in one of the spark plug holes, with someone cranking the car and giving it WOT, measure the compression on each cylinder.
        • Upper Limit: 178psi
        • Lower Limit: 133psi

Hopefully with ALL of the above information it will be enough for you to find the issue. If anyone see's anything else they can add PLEASE add it!

 

[cficare68]

You may also have a vacuum leak some where. Have you tried to keep it running or it just keeps dying. If you can get it running enough to listen for a hissing sound, listen and if you hear anything like a hissing from the motor and or turbo plumbing then it's a good sign you have a vacuum leak.

Can't keep in running it dies as soon as I let off the pedal.



Could this be related to the O2 sensor? A friend thinks it has to do with me not have an O2 sensor hooked to the ecu. The only O2 I have is hooked to my wideband. But it is not hooked into the ECU

 

[tenn-gsx]

If the car isnt running then How do you know that your running 40psi? The fuel pressure drops due to Vacuume once you crank or start the engine when the throttlebody is closed. I dont remember how much but it is a few psi, and is dependant on your setup.

Yes not having the o2 sensor could be your issue. Especially if you havent gotten the car running long enough to know everything else is right.

 

[cficare68]

If the car isnt running then How do you know that your running 40psi?

Fuel Gauge on the FPR.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Ok but once the car turns over that pressure drops if your getting any vacuume yet. Have you watched it while the car is kinda running?

 

[cficare68]

Ok but once the car turns over that pressure drops if your getting any vacuume yet. Have you watched it while the car is kinda running?

Not sure about that. I was the one cranking the car. My friend was watching the gauge since it is underneath the hood. All I know is that when I cranked the car at first it was only getting 24psi. After he adjusted it a bit we where able to get it to go upto 40psi once the key was turned to start it.

 

[zimfro]

I had this happen to me once. It ended up that my friend was goofing around with me and unplugged my MAF Sensor.

 

[cficare68]

I had this happen to me once. It ended up that my friend was goofing around with me and unplugged my MAF Sensor.

My MAF is plugged in. I have a 3" GM Maf that is plugged into the factory harness by a conversion cable from ECU Tuning.

 

[tenn-gsx]

40 should suffice but I dont remember how far it drops. Also make sure your firing order is correct. It will kinda try to run with the order jacked up.

 

[cficare68]

40 should suffice but I dont remember how far it drops. Also make sure your firing order is correct. It will kinda try to run with the order jacked up.

Going to look into that tonight as well. Also going to try a different set of plugs that I had before I rebuilt the motor since I know the car would start with them. Might not be the issue but at least its something I can try.

On a side note I think it is funny that you and I are troubleshoot the same problem on two different forums. Although you are coming up with different things on each one. . Never the less I appreciate all the feedback that you are providing me.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Well both forums went in different directions from input from other folks. That and with the link forums the best thing to do is post a log.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I see you also started another thread on here that I read before this one...

Honestly sounds like your going to get yourself confused real quick asking for advice without providing all the information or making more then one thread...

Have you done everything that Corey(Gofer) said to yet? I see so many threads that could have been resolved by simply doing what was suggested at the start.

As I said in your other thread an said above post a log of you trying to start the car. And Also setup your Narrow-band Simulation.

 

[cficare68]

I see you also started another thread on here that I read before this one...

Honestly sounds like your going to get yourself confused real quick asking for advice without providing all the information or making more then one thread...

Have you done everything that Corey(Gofer) said to yet? I see so many threads that could have been resolved by simply doing what was suggested at the start.

As I said in your other thread an said above post a log of you trying to start the car. And Also setup your Narrow-band Simulation.

No I haven't yet. The car is at a friends house right now and I haven't been over to work on it yet today. I am definitely going to try everything that is mentioned in golfers and coreys post.

The reason I started the 2nd thread is because my friend is adamant that the O2 issue is the problem. I however do not feel that it is since the car ran before without any O2 sensor in it on the same ecu minus DSMLink V3. So I started it to get feedback to see if that could be a possibility.

Well both forums went in different directions from input from other folks. That and with the link forums the best thing to do is post a log.

Yeah I can understand that. I haven't even installed the V3 software on my laptop yet (I am getting ready to do so right now actually). Until last night the car wasn't even at a point where I could use it. Its all so new to me it so I just need sometime to figure it out.

 

[tenn-gsx]

Just make sure that the software is configured correctly. Also check for any dtc that come up. This will help you diagnose. Just had a thought. Are you sure that your coolant temp sensor is plugged in. This will cause your issue because the edu will think your seeing- 40 temps.

 

[MY1GDSM]

After doing the Full install of the Laptop software I would recommend updateing the software to the Early access - v3.21.109 <--- (win download) and checking that your V3 firmware (See firmware log Here)is the current version as this will give you the most functions and control.

If it's not See Here

 

[94talontd]

This happend to my car about 40 miles after I Rebuilt it, turned out that my timing belt jumped a couple teeth.

 

[cficare68]

Just make sure that the software is configured correctly. Also check for any dtc that come up. This will help you diagnose. Just had a thought. Are you sure that your coolant temp sensor is plugged in. This will cause your issue because the edu will think your seeing- 40 temps.

Yes it is plugged in. I actually had to replace the clip cause the wires stripped out of it.

This happend to my car about 40 miles after I Rebuilt it, turned out that my timing belt jumped a couple teeth.

Highly doubt that's the issue. Brand new timing belt and brand new cam gears. Plus we have turned set it at top dead zero several times and I haven't seen any teeth missing.