quick questions about hx35 rebuild *pics*

[turbo98eclipse]

just a few quick questions about my hx35 rebuild.

i purchased it damaged about 7 months ago and finally got it apart to see what it would need for a rebuild. from what i can see it needs a turbine w/ shaft

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this unknown plate-- WHATS IT CALLED??

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and a general rebuild kit.... inside the cartridge is what appears to be caked on/fossilized oil. i got alot of it off with my finger and soaking it in pb blaster and engine degreaser, but its very hard and wont come off. i can scrape it with a screwdriver, but it doesnt really do anything. its like coal now ... should i worry about this stuff or what?

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thats it. if you think i would need anything else, let me know. thanx guys

for clarification

 

[JusMX141]

That turbo is junk. With the amount of angle the turbine wheel has bent, the turbine seal lip in the center housing is likely ruined as well.

Throw it away, and buy another core with no wheel damage.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

That turbo is junk. With the amount of angle the turbine wheel has bent, the turbine seal lip in the center housing is likely ruined as well.

Throw it away, and buy another core with no wheel damage.

i dont know... im not a turbo expert, but nothing on the cartridge looks damaged, heres a few more pictures... by center housing did you mean the cartridge? or were you referring to the hot side housing? if so i planned on getting a .55 bep housing which would fix any scoring the blade did-- sound good?

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[JusMX141]

You keep showing pics of the inside of the center housing from the compressor side....flip it over and take some good pics of the turbine seal lip.

...and no, the center housing is not the turbine housing.

I still say to trash it no matter. You can buy another core with no wheel damage for the cost of a Genuine turbine shaft alone...and you still need the heat shield, internals, balancing, etc.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

oh, gotcha-- sorry for the confusion

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as far as the parts, i was looking at some things really quick on ebay

Turbine Wheel Holset HX35 70.00mm Ind 58.00mm Exd - eBay (item 180520981464 end time Mar-11-11 21:37:14 PST)
and

Holset HX35 HX40 HY35 Turbocharger Turbo Rebuild Kit - eBay (item 120693379568 end time Mar-11-11 10:41:07 PST)


the turbine says its already balanced, and the kit contains all the parts id need minus that cap i showed a pic of about on the turbine side. no good?

there is also a new, fully assembled cartridge on ebay for about $295. im not sure if thats a good deal or what.

Turbo Cartridge CHRA Holset HX35 HX35W 3537817 by BAE - eBay (item 170491143788 end time Mar-21-11 16:50:12 PDT)

 

[JusMX141]

Second pic confirms it- your turbine seal lip is wrecked. If you put a new seal into that housing there would be a 1/16" gap at the seal end. This will never fly.

Stay away from those BAE assemblies- there's nothing Genuine about them. I'd rather chance a used HX35 than a new Chinese CHRA.

Going back to what I touched on a few hours ago, scrap this entire project and buy another HX35 with no wheel damage and start over.

 

[bastarddsm]

Could he buy a cheaper h1c and use his compressor stuff on?

 

[turbo98eclipse]

so as a good rule of thumb for my next purchase i should:

-avoid anything with compressor damage

-what about side to side play?

-in and out is acceptable as im assuming it would just need a rebuild?

 

[bastarddsm]

Pretty much. Also scince your using the BEP housing, you could get a 7 or 8blade hx35, wh1c, or big h1c. Any of them will make basically the same power in that housing. The last two will be the cheapest, and are upgradeable to a 60mm, 60lb.min compressor for $200.

 

[JusMX141]

Could he buy a cheaper h1c and use his compressor stuff on?

That's also a possibility, but he would have to find a H1C with the exact same inducer spec, and that can be a difficult task.

so as a good rule of thumb for my next purchase i should:

-avoid anything with compressor damage

-what about side to side play?

-in and out is acceptable as im assuming it would just need a rebuild?

Right. This basically only applies to Holsets because you can still find a good core cheaper than what replacement parts cost (turbines, center housings, etc).

You don't want extreme play in any direction...if there's enough side-to-side movement that the wheels have rubbed the housings, avoid it like the plague. Same goes for in/out play as you've got about a .020" buffer before wheels meet housings.

I'd even go as far as to say a turbo with compressor damage from debris would be OK (NOT damage from play) because you can find new takeoff HX35 compressor wheels relatively cheap...it's the turbine damage that is the killer.

Pretty much. Also scince your using the BEP housing, you could get a 7 or 8blade hx35, wh1c, or big h1c. Any of them will make basically the same power in that housing. The last two will be the cheapest, and are upgradeable to a 60mm, 60lb.min compressor for $200.

The 60mm upgrade would be a horrible idea for someone staying with an HX35 and using the bolt-on housing. You'd get all the lag without the added airflow benefit.

I'd say the 54mm 8-blade or 56mm 8-blade H1C / HX35 are your best option for the housing you have while keeping price in mind.

 

[bastarddsm]

The 60mm upgrade would be a horrible idea for someone staying with an HX35 and using the bolt-on housing. You'd get all the lag without the added airflow benefit.

It has the same size exducer so it shouldn't be much laggier, and if he moved up to a t3 setup it wouldn't be restricted on the exhuast.

Well I at least, am probably going the route of a 60mm compressor with a 14cm twinscroll.

 

[JusMX141]

It has the same size exducer so it shouldn't be much laggier,

You'd think, but there are guys who bi*** about the lag difference between a Big 16G and 20G, two compressors which also have the same exducer...but the difference in the inducer between a Big 16G and 20G isn't nearly 4mm.

Well I at least, am probably going the route of a 60mm compressor with a 14cm twinscroll.

Then you have plenty of turbine flow there to support the 60mm compressor. Anything with more than 52-53 lb/min airflow potential is a waste with the DSM bolt-on turbine housing on a HX35 turbine. The HX35 turbine is only around the size of a TD06 Mitsu turbine.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

Wow thanks for all the info in this thread guys!

So from what I've gathered, running anthying under a 60mm turbine will be identical/similar to running a hx35 with the bep housing?

With this in mind, is there ANY reason I should look for one over the other? I'm looking to get into the 4-450+ HP range ... I'm assuming both would be able to get me there according to other threads.

In my situation, I was going to go with a bep housing to work with my manifold, which is around $2-250... should I stick with that or get a t3 flanged manifold for about $100 more and stick with the stock hotside on the Hx35/h1c? In your opinion which would make me happier in the long run, as a track car?

 

[JusMX141]

If you want 400-450 easily out of a HX35, you're most likely going to need a T3 turbine housing in order to gain flow. Not saying it isn't possible with the DSM bolt-on housing; there are 68HTA users out there making between 400 and 450 at the wheels but they're well-tuned at around 30psi and running E85 or race fuel.

If your requirements are 450whp with a DSM bolt-on turbo and your only available fuel is Super Unleaded, that changes things a bit...I'd recommend the HX40 or H1E.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

If you want 400-450 easily out of a HX35, you're most likely going to need a T3 turbine housing in order to gain flow. Not saying it isn't possible with the DSM bolt-on housing; there are 68HTA users out there making between 400 and 450 at the wheels but they're well-tuned at around 30psi and running E85 or race fuel.

If your requirements are 450whp with a DSM bolt-on turbo and your only available fuel is Super Unleaded, that changes things a bit...I'd recommend the HX40 or H1E.

I planned on running 93oct and meth, does that change anything? sheesh, everytime I read a post from you I'm forced to do research on what info youre feeding me . So you'd recommend the hx40 and t3 manifold on 93oct?

 

[JusMX141]

Meth changes everything.

...but I'm still going to say either the HX35 in a T3 .70 a/r housing or a HX40 in a DSM bolt-on housing. You could go with the 8-blade 58mm HX40 and enjoy better airflow at lower boost levels than the 6- and 7-blade 60mm wheels, as well as slightly quicker spool....but the HX40 turbine will still have far less backpressure in the DSM bolt-on turbine housing than the HX35 with the same .55 a/r housing.

Here's a 7-blade HX35 in a T3 .70 a/r turbine housing at around 28-30psi with an ERL manifold on a bone stock 6-bolt with 139k on it mounted in a full-weight 1G. The only engine mod aside from balance shaft removal was Comp 101200 cams:

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The 2G in the far lane was also a full-weight car but was 20G-powered at 22-24psi with an even more beat-up stock 6-bolt.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

All this new info is frying my brain ... I feel like I'm back in college cramming for one of my engineering tests hahaha...

Anyway, I did some research and I agree with what you said... the t3 hx35 or the bep hx40. There's a 6blade hx40 with bep in the classified ads for 675+shipping.... I don't know if that's a deal or not considering how cheap these can be had and then rebuilt.

I'm honestly feeling like I want to go hx40, but I will prob end up going hx35 + a new manifold and meth---- that'll be my final decision unless someone can convince me that ill regret chosing the 35 over the 40

I diddddd say I was looking for 450hp but I wouldn't mind entering the 5s with the hx40

 

[JusMX141]

There's a 6blade hx40 with bep in the classified ads for 675+shipping.... I don't know if that's a deal or not considering how cheap these can be had and then rebuilt.

I don't know if you've checked lately, but HX40 cores are not $100 anymore...and the stainless DSM bolt-on BEP housings are hovering around $300 a pop due to demand and rising costs of nickel.

 

[turbo98eclipse]

I don't know if you've checked lately, but HX40 cores are not $100 anymore...and the stainless DSM bolt-on BEP housings are hovering around $300 a pop due to demand and rising costs of nickel.

So you'd say this is a good, reasonable buy: both price wise and for my goals?

 

[JusMX141]

There have been better buys, but if it's what you're looking for it's definitely not a ripoff at that price. You could easily sell it for what you have in it if it ends up being too much.

 

[Absit]

I'd like to add that's a decent buy if you want that housing, I paid $500 shipped for an unused HXSuper40 with the stock housing.

But I really want to know how exactly the turbo in the original post suffered that damage!

 

[JusMX141]

But I really want to know how exactly the turbo in the original post suffered that damage!

Could be a number of things- the most common of which being something large (like a valve) passes through the housing at full boost.

Other common problems which cause such damage would be overspeeding or a sudden lack of oil which causes the shaft speed to slow while the turbine momentum remains high, twisting the shaft like a pretzel....I've also seen such damage from cheaper turbos that did not have the turbine wheel fused to the shaft properly- what you're seeing is the beginning of a turbine wheel that is attempting to break loose from the shaft.

This is NOT a common trait on a HX35, although I've seen a couple HX40's do this when pushed to the max as a result of the large turbine wheel / small turbine shaft ratio. This only happens to a handful of these turbos and most are having some underlying problem which causes the shaft to twist.