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2G Quaife LSD Install Questions

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DashLaflash

15+ Year Contributor
311
7
Jul 4, 2007
Millbury, Massachusetts
Hey guys I bought a quaife LSD for my 1995 Eclipse GST that I am building, and I had a few questions about installing it. The transmission is already out of the car and taken apart. The vfaq got me most of the way through the install but I'm stumped on a couple things. I already have the speed sensor gear pressed onto the quaife and the final drive gear bolts torqued to spec. The thing I'm not sure on is how to press on the bearings and space them. Reading the vfaq it seemed like he put on a spacer and then pressed on a bearing. Your supposed to use a piece of solder on the bearing race and bolt on the case to check for play and add the spacer of correct size. (factory service manual) Now what I don't get is if you need a different spacer do you have to press off the bearing, use the correct spacer, and then press the bearing back on again. I don't have a press but i can get access to one. I will have to travel though to press bearings on and off. Also there was something that looked like a spacer on top of the outer bearing race (passenger side) just sitting on top of the race. This was on the stock differential and very thin. Is this the only spacer that I have to deal with. Sorry for the long post I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing.

Some other questions about the quaife:
1. What type of gear oil to use in my trans.? (I heard redline is good what kind to get)
2. Is there a break in procedure? (No because its not a clutch type LSD???)
3. I already tried to order spacers from mitsubishi but I was unsure what I actually needed. I got a spacer set part #MR954819. Think these go inside the actual stock differential though not bearing spacers. Do I have the right part?

Well I did some more reading of the Factory Service Manual and I placed the quaife in the tranny without the bearings on it. I seems like after pressing the bearings on without spacers things will line up. The FSM only mentions a spacer on top of the passenger side bearing race (not between the bearing and the diff.)to take up any play between the differnential and the transmission case. A spacer between the bearing on the speed sensor side of the diff would increase how the final drive gear lines up. The vfaq definately says he uses one inbetween the bearing but the FSM makes no mention. Since no one has replied yet I'm going to try to get my bearings pressed on without spacers and go from there. Anyone that can help and give me a definate answer please chime in.
 
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The F5M22, F5M31 and F5M33 FWD 5-speed transmissions have tapered roller bearings on the front differential that get pressed onto the housing; the shim should be placed between the front differential bearing race surface and the transmission case passenger side receiver groove. It doesn't get pressed on the front diff with the bearings. Normally, you can get away with reusing your stock shim for the front diff, as it isn't too huge of a deal. If you are using new tapered roller bearings, be sure to replace the bearing races as well; you cannot mix and match used bearing races with new or bearings -- they should be matched to each other.

If you are concerned, then prior to installing the shim, use a 1/16" thick plumbing solder and cut off two 1/4"-1/2" long pieces, and place them gently on the outside of front diff roller bearing race (which should be sitting on the tapered roller bearing) between the bearing race and the receiver groove on the transmission case and hold them in place with a bit of grease. Have them equally spaced apart to get accurate measurements of thickness. Then, carefully install the main case section and install your case bolts to 29 lb/ft torque, then remove bolts and case, and carefully measure the pieces of solder for thickness using a micrometer to a minimum of .001". I normally go to the ten-thousandths when measuring my shim/preload/endplay numbers so I can get the preload or end-play proper. Your two numbers should be fairly close to each other in overall thickness. Add the two numbers together and divide by the number of pieces you put in there for measurement.

So, lets say for example sake, you have two measurements of 0.0355" and 0.0387", you would add them together to get 0.0742". Now divide by two to get a measurement of 0.0371" as your average shim thickness needed. Now, spec calls for 0.002"-0.004" of preload, meaning you would want a shim thickness of 0.0373"-0.0375".

In this circumstance, Mitsubishi offers 16 different shims for front differential PRELOAD on F5M22, F5M31 and F5M33 transmissions, so you will need to find the shim thickness that closest matches your measured number. It is better to go a bit tighter than too loose with a tapered roller bearing shim as thrust is what kills gears and bearings (which is what you will get when you give a tapered roller bearing too little preload). With the example numbers I used above, the best shim would be a "95" shim, which measures 0.0374" in thickness and puts it in the middle-ground of the preload specifications.

If you want, you can measure your numbers -- do it twice with fresh solder pieces each time so that you get confirmation measurements for accuracy, and I can give you the shim part numbers and thicknesses for the three shims in your range (loose, medium, tight) so that you have a bit of headroom when you reassemble the transmission.

I have all the part numbers and thicknesses for all mitsubishi transmissions (I have JDM and USDM CAPS Mitsubishi Parts Lookup Programs) and would be happy to provide you with the part numbers or shim kit you would need to order to complete the shimming process.
 
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Awesome! Thanks Twicks for your time and your very detailed post. I have new bearings and races that I ordered from roadrace engineering. I'm going to have them pressed on and hopefully I can reuse the stock spacer. If not I have all the part numbers for the different size spacers. For the record, and for anyone looking, I have the F5M33 transmission which is nearly identical to the F5M31 and the procedure is the same. Also Tim do you have any insight on some of the other questions I asked in my first post. What's the best gear oil to use in the dsm transmission especially with an LSD? Is there a break in procedure with the quaife? I'm assuming not because its not a clutch type LSD. And The spacer kit I have is definately not the correct thing I need. Any one looking disregard the part number #MR954819 I asked about.
 
Awesome! Thanks Twicks for your time and your very detailed post. I have new bearings and races that I ordered from roadrace engineering. I'm going to have them pressed on and hopefully I can reuse the stock spacer. If not I have all the part numbers for the different size spacers. For the record, and for anyone looking, I have the F5M33 transmission which is nearly identical to the F5M31 and the procedure is the same. Also Tim do you have any insight on some of the other questions I asked in my first post. What's the best gear oil to use in the dsm transmission especially with an LSD? Is there a break in procedure with the quaife? I'm assuming not because its not a clutch type LSD. And The spacer kit I have is definately not the correct thing I need. Any one looking disregard the part number #MR954819 I asked about.

Yeah, I edited my post because I was thinking it was a F5M33, but I know that the 3000GT FWD 6G72 non-turbo transmissions were the same model number while I thought the 1G and 2G DSM FWD's were the F5M31's. Oh well, thankfully the F5M31 and F5M33 transmissions utilize the same front differential tapered roller bearings, races, and shims for preload.

Since the Quaife is torsen-style diff, I would stick with a mix of Redline Lightweight Shockproof (1 quart), and the other 1-1.5 quarts being a synthetic 75W90 (Royal Purple), or 80W90 synthetic gear oil (Pennzoil Synchromesh or Mobil 1, etc.). I personally use straight Lightweight shockproof in my trans, but I have it apart much more regularly than most people, so I can clean up all the sludge it leaves behind in the hub and sliders, oiling passages, hub keys, etc.

The Quaife LSD front differential and center differential units do not require a break-in period, but I would take it easy on the transmission for a little bit to get used to how the transmission is going to react under no-load/load conditions just so you can learn how to drive with the changes.

As for the shims you would use on the front differential of F5M22, F5M31 and F5M33 transmissions, here are the list of the part numbers, shim "ID" and its thickness in SAE measurement (inches).

Shims:
MD727661 -- "80" -- 0.0315"
MD720937 -- "83" -- 0.0327"
MD720938 -- "86" -- 0.0338"
MD720939 -- "89" -- 0.0350"
MD720940 -- "92" -- 0.0362"
MD720941 -- "95" -- 0.0374"
MD720942 -- "98" -- 0.0386"
MD720943 -- "01" -- 0.0398"
MD720944 -- "04" -- 0.0409"
MD720945 -- "07" -- 0.0421"
MD710454 -- "J" -- 0.0433"
MD700270 -- "D" -- 0.0445"
MD710455 -- "K" -- 0.0457"
MD710456 -- "L" -- 0.0468"
MD700271 -- "G" -- 0.0480"
MD710457 -- "M" -- 0.0492"
 
Ya I actually have a F5M33 bottom and top case but the middle case says F5M31. The kid I got the car from said he rebuilt the transmission so I'm thinking he might have blown gears out the side or something. The inside looks brand new though and the shift fork says F5M33 so he must have gotten a used F5M31 middle case and rebuilt the internals. I will look into getting some of those gear oils, I like to use sythetic oils. My trans actually has a lot of sludge in it at the moment. I cleaned out the parts of it that I could reach with a paper towel but I don't know how I'm going to clean the part near the gears without taking them apart. I was thinking maybe I could spray break cleaner in there to blast out the sludge betweeen gearing. Let me know if this is a really bad idea. I will be taking it easy when I install the transmission because its going in next spring with a fully rebuilt engine so no worries there.
 
My trans actually has a lot of sludge in it at the moment. I cleaned out the parts of it that I could reach with a paper towel but I don't know how I'm going to clean the part near the gears without taking them apart. I was thinking maybe I could spray break cleaner in there to blast out the sludge betweeen gearing. Let me know if this is a really bad idea.

Yeah, the most important parts that would be beneficial to clean would require full disassembly of your gear clusters to clean the input and intermediate shaft oiling passages, and disassembly of the hub and slider assemblies to clean the assembly keys.

Is it required? No.

Would I do it if I had a snapring pliers end shaft nut socket, roll pin punches and hammer, pry bars, gear splitters and a shop press? Yup.

As for the sludge, where are you finding all the debris? In the transmission case filter? The trash magnet? Or is it floating everywhere in the transmission? Is it just oil residue, or is it metal shavings, debris, etc?
 
Ya I have some of those tools but not all. I don't really want to take everything apart though. I don't really have any debris or metal shavings floating around in the case, its just a thin layer of gear oil left on the walls of the case that looks kinda like sludge. I don't know if that's just how gear oil looks being thicker than regular oil though. I wiped down everywhere I could reach and I will continue to try to clean around the gear stacks without taking them out.
 
You'll be fine.

Worst case scenario, fill it up with 80W90 when it is installed in the car, run it for a bit and then drain it after like 25 miles or so and put in synthetic gear oil. Then you essentially did a transmission flush.
 
Reviving this thread. I'm installing my Quaife LSD (QDH8B) in my 1991 FWD (F5M33 trans). Everything was going smooth, I opened the case, removed the stock diff, and removed the final drive gear from the stock diff. Then when I went to put the new diff bearings (MD710663) on the Quaife LSD, they are nowhere near the right size, they are way too big. The new bearings are the exact same size as the old stock bearings, but way too big for the Quaife. I thought I had ordered everything correctly. Am I missing something?

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To update my question for anyone searching: The factory bearings don't work with the Quaife. I called up ShepTrans and they have a custom sized bearing that they use with the Quaife. They were about $80 for the pair shipped. I don't know why I never found anything about this on the forums or VFAQ.
 
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Have you already installed the bearings and differential? Do you have the bearings still accessible to pull the manufacturer and part number off the bearing and its bearing race? I can do a cross-reference search for you and other members to get the right bearings next time.
 
Have you already installed the bearings and differential? Do you have the bearings still accessible to pull the manufacturer and part number off the bearing and its bearing race? I can do a cross-reference search for you and other members to get the right bearings next time.

I finished up the install about 2 weeks ago (Thanks for the phone advise! Everything is working great now, well except the Driver's side axle started leaking, I have a new one on the way). I didn't write down the bearing numbers at all. All I know is that it fit perfect. Whenever I pull the trans apart again I will take a look for you, although I hope it's not anytime soon!
 
Sorry of posting in this resolved topic but I'm doing the same thing and need same help.

Putting Quaife LSD (QDH8B) in my 1990 FWD (F5M33 trans) and don't know what bearing to use..
I found this in other topic:

"I'm planing on ordering front AWD quaife diff. That should fit my FWD trans, only difference is instead of using tapered roller bearings, Sealed bearings have to be used."

Does anyone know part number or dimension of that sealed bearing that I should be using?
Thanks.
 
Crap, I forgot to check the part number when I was working on a Quaife FWD trans yesterday that I already shipped out.
 
To bad :(
If anyone else will be doing similar thing, please have me in mind.. :)
I still have next month to find out what bearing to use, then the operation starts.
Thanks.

Call Shep, (330) 832.2366, that is who I got mine from.

To update my question for anyone searching: The factory bearings don't work with the Quaife. I called up ShepTrans and they have a custom sized bearing that they use with the Quaife. They were about $80 for the pair shipped. I don't know why I never found anything about this on the forums or VFAQ.
 
I just emailed shep, but if someone could post the info here, part # for speedo gear? Or is MD710663 it that I found above in post #11 where poster may have obtained the larger turbo version of this bearing, which would be what I'm looking for as I've the turbo quaife (& subsequently am getting turbo axles, taking me a couple steps towards a turbo conversion yeah!).
 
I just emailed shep, but if someone could post the info here, part # for speedo gear? Or is MD710663 it that I found above in post #11 where poster may have obtained the larger turbo version of this bearing, which would be what I'm looking for as I've the turbo quaife (& subsequently am getting turbo axles, taking me a couple steps towards a turbo conversion yeah!).

The info below is for F5M33 and W5M33 Quaife models.

AWD Quaife Model: QDH8B
Bearings Used: MD706566
Speedo Ring Gear Used: MD717879

FWD Quaife Model: QDH7B
Bearings Used: MD710663
Speedo Ring Gear Used: MD717879
 
Twicks, I am curious if the F4A33 automatic takes the same differential bearings as the manual transmissions talked about In the posts above? I don't want to get my trans taken apart and then not have the proper bearings for the rebuild. In other words I don't want to wait till It's apart to figure which bearings I need to order just to be able to finish another day.

I'm about to start my Quaife LSD install (QDH7B) and IPT performance rebuild and the only thing I'm lacking now is bearings and proper sized shims.
 
The automatic FWD also uses MD710663 bearings.

I have most of the bearing shaft shims, but the auto snaprings/spacers for the clutch assemblies are special order parts.
 
Okay awesome, thanks!!! :thumb: I'll have to order 2 bearing sets tomorrow!!

What are the auto snaprings / spacers for the clutches that you are referring to? this is my first auto car to mess with so I'm unsure of all the internal parts, but I've had to fix my camaro 5 speed a few times Lol. Am I missing something else I didn't think of?

Also are there any special tools I'll need for my rebuild process?
 
Okay awesome, thanks!!! :thumb: I'll have to order 2 bearing sets tomorrow!!

What are the auto snaprings / spacers for the clutches that you are referring to? this is my first auto car to mess with so I'm unsure of all the internal parts, but I've had to fix my camaro 5 speed a few times Lol. Am I missing something else I didn't think of?

Also are there any special tools I'll need for my rebuild process?

Umm yeah there are several special tools required for rebuilding a DSM automatic. Read up!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...64GQAQ&usg=AFQjCNEe_U1nzXJQX_Lilz6HnvKmZIQnzg

Save file, read.
 
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