Punishment goes roadracing, where to start?

[punishment]

Ok so I've caught the road racing bug and we have decided to put together a time attack shop car for next season. The plan is to hand over driving duties to someone more qualified at the major events and drive it myself at regional events.

My main question at the moment (and I'm sure there will be hundreds to follow ) is I want to get out on the track this year, what would be a good car to pick up to drive until our shop car is finished? I'm not looking for anything blazing fast just something that would be a good to learn the ropes in and work my way through the NASA groups.

Tim

 

[123abc]

Miata or Civic in my opinion.


Hope to see some good innovative things on this shop car.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Miata or Rx7

 

[asian312]

I concur with the Miata or even a civic, but if you are planning on tracking an AWD, I would recommend an AWD base. Reason being is that there are different techniques to different drive trains and adapting to those early on can only be a plus.

 

[Sam@RRE]

Miata. nuff said.

 

[bluegs03]

Yea i mean you can pick em up for about 3k throw some tires on there and learn the ropes! after the shop car is ready sell it for 2.5k and you haven't really lost all that much. If you need a awd base i would recommend an early subaru, but its gonna be more expensive

 

[1992awdlaser]

I concur with the Miata or even a civic, but if you are planning on tracking an AWD, I would recommend an AWD base. Reason being is that there are different techniques to different drive trains and adapting to those early on can only be a plus.

In my expaeriance rwd and awd are pretty equal when it comes to a stock/mild suspension set up. Also, with an under powered (compared to the car they will be building) rear drive car like a miata you can learn how to control a slide. A under powered awd you would have to try hard to make it slide like the miata to learn how to control it. But with the car they build I am sure even though it is awd it will be able to slide pretty easily. I'm not saying that they are going to be trying to drift with the car they build. But with a miata they can intentially break the rear end loose to learn how to control it. I am sure they will need to know how to control a slide since they do happen on accident.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

whatever car you go with, keep it in near stock form with some sticky tires and good brakes.

 

[silver bullit]

Miata with a 4g63?

 

[underradar92]

Ok so I've caught the road racing bug and we have decided to put together a time attack shop car for next season. The plan is to hand over driving duties to someone more qualified at the major events and drive it myself at regional events.

My main question at the moment (and I'm sure there will be hundreds to follow ) is I want to get out on the track this year, what would be a good car to pick up to drive until our shop car is finished? I'm not looking for anything blazing fast just something that would be a good to learn the ropes in and work my way through the NASA groups.

Tim

The "time attack" car, is it intended to be a DSM?

I've seen people on Road America with stock-looking Intrepids so, one can learn/play in any car apparently. Put race compound pads on your winter car and drive the wheels off it.

Miatas, if you can get past the girlie-car factor, seem to be the tool of choice if you must buy something.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Miata with a 4g63?

+ 1

 

[asian312]

In my expaeriance rwd and awd are pretty equal when it comes to a stock/mild suspension set up. Also, with an under powered (compared to the car they will be building) rear drive car like a miata you can learn how to control a slide. A under powered awd you would have to try hard to make it slide like the miata to learn how to control it. But with the car they build I am sure even though it is awd it will be able to slide pretty easily. I'm not saying that they are going to be trying to drift with the car they build. But with a miata they can intentially break the rear end loose to learn how to control it. I am sure they will need to know how to control a slide since they do happen on accident.

At the beginners level, all cars are pretty much taught the same classic line around a track. This is for safety and a way to ease the driver and get them acclimated to tracking. I started out with a very mildly tuned AWD platform and picked up a few things along the way. Throw in some rain though and you'll get some of the best lessons in AWD slides. The way an AWD recovers from a slide is different than that of a RWD. With AWD you add power (general principle) to straighten the car out. Heck 9-10 things that go wrong on track is solved by getting on the load pedal. Try that with a Miata and you'll swap ends.

Now with a slightly more radical setup (same power) those lessons really paid off. My brother tracks a Miata and he recently took out the Eclipse for a few sessions. It was pretty eye opening for him to see just how different it drove. Lines are much different between a momentum car and AWD platform when aiming for quick laps. And it will shine even more when you start to add power.

Seat time of any sort is paramount. But if you can find a 1G at your disposal or even a NT Impreza, playing around with squaring off corners (driving diamonds), learning just how much sooner you can apply power, or how to rotate the car in corners (can't steer with the rear) will be a benefit later on when you're doing this with 2-3 times the power and suspension setup that reacts quicker.

 

[1992awdlaser]

At the beginners level, all cars are pretty much taught the same classic line around a track. This is for safety and a way to ease the driver and get them acclimated to tracking. I started out with a very mildly tuned AWD platform and picked up a few things along the way. Throw in some rain though and you'll get some of the best lessons in AWD slides. The way an AWD recovers from a slide is different than that of a RWD. With AWD you add power (general principle) to straighten the car out. Heck 9-10 things that go wrong on track is solved by getting on the load pedal. Try that with a Miata and you'll swap ends.

The way I control a slide with an awd is the same as a rwd. Where ever the pedal was when I started to slide it stays. If I am at full throttle it stays full throttle. If I am at 50% throttle it stays there. This has worked fine for me. This worked fine the one time I drove a miata also. Its not like I am road racing all the time though so I am sure there is a better way.

 

[tsiboosted]

Miata. nuff said.

whatever car you go with, keep it in near stock form with some sticky tires and good brakes.

There you go. Miata for sure until you get the DSM track car up and going. Cant beat them with some "sticky" tires for the money and handling on AutoX & Tracks. Like talonTSIDriver said, keep it as close to stock as possible with some really good tires. You'll have alot of fun and get some seat time before you get the DSM car ready. Good luck guys and keep us posted.

Sam - How good is Mike about returning E-Mails ???

 

[punishment]

Thanks for all the input guys, this stuff is all new to me so it helps out a ton. After years of racing in a straight line I'm pretty stoked about this, it's a whole new challenge. I'm located between watkins glen and the poconos so I should be able to get out on the track quite a bit if I can dig up a car sometime soon.

Tim

 

[tsiboosted]

Good luck Tim. Cant wait to see what you guys come up with for the DSM track car. In the mean time, get your self a car and grab some seat time

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Thanks for all the input guys, this stuff is all new to me so it helps out a ton. After years of racing in a straight line I'm pretty stoked about this, it's a whole new challenge. I'm located between watkins glen and the poconos so I should be able to get out on the track quite a bit if I can dig up a car sometime soon.

Tim

once you get caught up in competitive road racing, you'll be hooked!

Good luck on the build, be sure to make a "project thread."

 

[schemauer]

I just did the Skip Barber one-day school at Road America yesterday. We drove the RX8 and the open wheel cars and also the Miata earlier in the day. (They kept calling them the "MX-5" - I didn't know what the hell they were talking about - probably a directive from Mazda's marketing department to get past the girly-driver reputation of the old "Miata"). Also drove the RX 8 and then the open wheel cars on the track.

Although the Miata was a competent car it honestly bored me to death to drive the thing. Seriously underpowered (in my opinion) to the point that I just didn't even enjoy driving it.

My point is that you might learn a lot in this car but it may not be the most fun. Take it for what it's worth. I like the idea of a close-to-stock 1g DSM with brakes and DOT slicks. You're already set up with spares and familiar with the car.

I'd get in contact with the local BMWCCA or other clubs that might have track weekends scheduled throughout the summer. They'll be able to provide affordable track time with personal instruction.

 

[chavez408]

pictures of the ride?

 

[punishment]

I've got nothing yet, the 2g we planned on using for the time attack car the seller decided to keep at the last minute. I'm looking for a miata to use for track days this season, hopefully I can dig something up in the next couple weeks.

Tim

 

[123abc]

You guys should try a 1g. Seems like everyone roadraces the 2g's just because of the better suspension design. I'd like to see some 1g love, see some innovative things I can apply to my own.

Nonetheless, keep us posted please.

 

[UofACATS]

Seems foolish to ask, but why are you looking to other makes of vehicle just to get on the track? Why not a DSM?

Seeing as how really any car can satisfy your requirements, my suggestion is an awd dsm. I understand the miata talk, I happen to own one which I like very much, even stock. Turbo is better, though . I tracked my GSX with Ground Controls and Konis as the only mods, and it was awesome. I spent all the time in the "slow group" which is great as far as I'm concerned. The learning curve is steep as long as the track time is plenty. Just being on the track with other cars has no substitute, so you guys have the right idea no matter the vehicle.

The stock tires scream for mercy (of which they get none), the stock brakes overheat quickly, which is a good, hard lesson to brake HARD and get off the brakes already! (I'm in the middle of this lesson, currently) The body roll is sweet, the power is little, it's perfect.

Idea for a track car while real track car is being built: Go rent something for the day?

It's awesome Punishment is going road racing!

 

[punishment]

I'm bringing this thread back from the dead.

We had to put our road racing plans on hold last year due to my lack of time to put into the project, keeping up with orders is always the main focus of the shop and last year it didn't leave any time left over to take on new projects. So I am going to give it another shot this year.

I've decided to pick up a clean 1g non-turbo to start out with, the plan is to enter every track day/auto x/rally x/hillclimb/time trial event I can this year and learn to drive and set up a car for this style of racing. I'm not concerned about winning anything this season just about learning.

As soon as I find a suitable car I will post up pictures and keep everyone posted on our progress through the year.

Tim

 

[tsiboosted]

Great. Good to see some DSM vendors step over into road racing. Hopefully you can find what you are looking for in a car soon and get started. Good Luck !!

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Well obviously your not going to win anything with that thing.
On a more serious note..good luck. have fun. be safe.