1G PTE Spool?

[ITSME4G63]

Ok I was looking on extremepsi and came along this http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16455&cat=0&page=1

what rpm you guys think this turbo will spool at? with a built eagle rod/ross pistons combo engine?

 

[nukefission]

I have this turbo, externally gated, and with stock 7.8:1 pistons it spools by 4k RPM in third gear. Big cams and no pre-turbo restrictions (i.e., MAS) help tremendously with spoolup.

 

[ITSME4G63]

It must be ####ing euphoria when you hit the gas at 4k

 

[ITSME4G63]

Question? Youre running a stock 4g63 with a turbo which is made to handle 600hp?

 

[nukefission]

That's correct.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by nukefission
That's correct.

Impressive tuning. Any idea of power output?

 

[Talondsm18g]

The avg person will not get near 600 hp on this turbo.
Theres tons of skill to tuning.
He can run this turbo on a stock 4g63 just fine if hes only pushing it around 400 or 500 wiht good tuning.

 

[blackgsxrcst]

i have that as well. spools up right at about 4 k. i love it. im not totally tuned yet but so far its haulin some good ass.

 

[nanokpsi]

99% of the guys that have this turbo don't need them. You won't get anymore noticeable hp over the 50 trim untill over 25 psi. At street boost levels, there is not going to be a difference unless you are running a stroker with a ported head and smim with cams. Throwing on a huge turbo instead of a big turbo will do nothing for you unless you are already maxing out the big turbo.

 

[blackgsxrcst]

well, i agree and dissagree. i agree with you that the 50 trim will make similar numbers as the 56 trim with boost levels under 25. but, what if some people want a turbo that they probably wont have to upgrade ever again no matter which path they take? (full race, streetable, etc...) right now, i have 720's 190lph pump, safc, gm maf, and this thing spools right up. just a tad bit laggier than my 16g. now, i dont have experience with a 50 trim, so my comments may seem a little centric on the 56 trim. pretty soon i'll be able to run 26 psi, then i will probably have a totaly new insight on this topic. a lot of people buy this turbo for the potential it has. majority, however, dont get all the potential out of it. but i can tell you that once i have all the supporting mods to run 25 psi daily, i bet it will run way stronger than a 50 trim.

 

[nanokpsi]

Depends on the supportind mods. On a 2g car with a 1g head/intake manifold and 272 cams logged the same airflow on dsmlink with the 50 tirm at 25 psi and a 56 trim turbo at 25psi. Both were flowing 45lb/min. That still leaves a good bit of air in the 50 trim before it would start to fall off. I don't believe the 56 is any more efficient at those pressure ratios so you wouldn't see any power increase. As you raise the boost even more, the bigger unit will start to pull away. On a good set up the 50 trim will max out around 28 psi. That nuber will be lower by a few psi with a 1g smim on a 1g head. That is all my point was. Most poeple think that the bigger turbo will always give you more air at the same psi and that is not true at all. If the larger unit is less efficient you would even lose power. If you are bolting this up to a 2g head, intake mani with cams the psi limits of the 50 trim will be even higher, probably 30 or so. Thus, no performance increase untill that point unless the 56 trim satrts to become more efficient at those pressure ratios.

 

[nanokpsi]

Oh yeah, and if you are worrying about needing to upgrade, when you start maxing out a 50 trim you should be clicking off some pretty impressive times with close to 500 whp.

 

[nukefission]

The whole point is that I probably won't have to get another turbo. That was the idea behind the purchase.

Right now I'm making 420 whp on a semi-fine tune and C-16/pump gas mix. I still have a lot of bugs to work out so I won't really get an ideal dyno number on my stockish setup for a few months.

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I don't plan on making 600 whp with this setup. I'll be happy if I ever hit 500 and everything holds together. I like messing with stock motors because if they break, they are cheap and easy to replace. Someday I want to build a poor-man's 2.4l and see what that will do with the SCM61 turbo. The exhaust housing will probably be too small which may choke the motor a bit at high RPM, but it would sure be torquey.

A friend dynoed his Magnus 2.4l with PTE63 turbo and made 606 whp.

 

[DSMDuDE4G63T]

Hey Guys i purchased a SCM61 and am going to be runing it on a built 2.4l

Wiesco 9:1 compression pistons
Eagle Rods
arp fasteners
780cc fuel injectors
safc
maft
FRH intake manifold
and all the other little goodies

Head has
Crower Springs
Crower Retainers
Crower 272 cams

Lemme know whatcha guys think

Car should be up and runing soon

Thanks

 

[kpt4321]

Nukefission, can you give us a quick run-down of your setup, and the boost level and information about that dyno pull?

Thanks!

 

[nukefission]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Nukefission, can you give us a quick run-down of your setup, and the boost level and information about that dyno pull?

SCM61 turbo (GT40 comp, Stage V (T350) turbine)
MAFT v1.37/3" GM MAF blow-thru
AFC
Walbro 255
AFPR
660s
HKS 264/272 cams
Crower valvesprings & retainers
SS valves (std size)
Custom 2.5" O2 w/ 40mm gate
Spearco 2-216 FMIC
3" exhaust, no cat
no emissions
no A/C
stock block (with balance shafts!)

For the longest time I had a B16G on this car, which is why at this point the injectors and fuel pump are too small, and it has a 264 intake cam. Only recently did I swtich the turbo, wastegate, and MAF. Future mods include 1000cc injectors with ECU compensation, Bosch fuel pump, 272 intake cam, among others. I will probably run it that way until the engine grenades, then do the poor-man's 2.4L.

As far as the dyno pull, that was made at 26 psi with about a 70/30 C-16/pump gas mix, in 3rd gear. Timing was falling off a bit up top but EGTs were dead-on at 900*C. I could have gotten away with 30 psi but decided not to risk it because at the moment this is my daily driver.

 

[Euphoric]

not true that you wont seem more power until over psi.

sure psi is psi but howmuch air/cfm is in that pound of boost determines power output .
and per pound of boost the sc61 will out perform the 50 trim from 1 psi all the way till it cant boost no more.(seen it in the honda camp) continously the sc61 puts out more power from low boost to high boost over smaller turbos(or similarly sized ones)

sure you dont NEED a turbo that size.

waiting 500 rpm more for this turbo to hit full boost aint that bad.

 

[nanokpsi]

On the more power vs same psi topic you are incorrect. I didn't make up the information that I posted above. It comes from a fellow dsmlink user that logged airflow with several different turbos. The 20g and 3040 (sc 61-65 lb compressor wheel both flowed the same amount of air at 25 psi on his car. 45 lb/min. I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass here buddy. Sure on a 2.4 L motor with a raised port race head with smim the difference will be made at a lower psi but that will only be when the 20g is flowing close to it's limit. For a typical car with a 1g head and hks cams you are not going to see a difference between two "big" turbos(20g, 50trim, 56 trim) At the trakc at higher boost (25+) the larger ones will start to pull away.

Now if you look at 30 psi on a good set up(big cams and smim, 1g head) the 56 trim (sc61-fp3065) will be flowing in the upper 50s while a 50 trim will be maxed out around 50lb/min a few psi earlier. That is all my point. at 21-22 psi there will be no difference between the turbos.

Most people think the bigger turbo will always be faster btu some people realized this isn't true when the 50 trims hit the market big time. going form a 20g to a 50 trim isn't going to be much faster at the same psi. Any power increase is from the compressor being more efficient at those levels.
cfm and lb/min are just a way of rating compressor wheels. Doesn't mean one turbo flows more at the same psi than the other that's why there isn't a difference between a 16g and b16g at pump gas boost levels.

 

[Euphoric]

i was talking about the 50 trim. i dont know anything about the 20 g


the 61 has the newer advanced comp wheel and will make more power per pound of boost then the 50. seen it over and over again in the honda crowd.

 

[GSXJEFF]

I just wanted to say that nanokpsi is right. I am also on the dsmlink forums and this has been discussed. Air flow is air flow and at a given psi only soo much air can be cramed into our motors (unless it's a 2.4 or has a bigger intake manifold or has a 1g head). So as long as the turbos are within their efficiency levels 21psi of boost on a huge turbo and a big turbo will put out the same air flow. A bigger turbo will not make more power than a smaller turbo at a given psi (as long as both are within their efficiency levels). This has been documented on the dsmlink forums. The bigger turbo will shine at higher boost when the smaller turbo is out of it's efficiency level and begins to blow hot air.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Euphoric is right. Nanokpsi and GSXJEFF, you guys are forgetting about the hot side of the turbo.

You would be right if you just changed compressor wheels, the only difference would be the efficiency of the compressor wheels.

But most big turbos have bigger turbines and exhaust housings this lets the engine breathe more up top. When the engine can exhaust more gases faster because of the turbo hot side, the same psi for a smaller turbo flows a lot less air then at the same psi for the larger turbo.

 

[GSXJEFF]

The stuff you are talking about affects the efficiency of the turbo. As long as both turbos are in their efficiency range 21 psi of compressed air is still going to be 21 psi of compressed air in our motors. Only a certain amount of air is in your motor when it is at 21psi. To get more air in the motor boost would have to be increased to 21+psi. That is my understanding from the dsmlink forums. A 20g, a 50 trim and a BIG SBR turbo (forgot which one but it flows 65lbs/min) were compared at 25psi on the same car. All flowed 45lb/min. Hopefully he'll see this thread and can explain further.

 

[STECARS]

Wouldnt the 50 trim spoolup a little faster(noticeable) ,
than the 56 trim ? Maybe aroung 3600-3800

 

[Euphoric]

yes the spool up would be faster by about 500 rpm.(Depending)

25 psi isn just 25 psi.

less restrictive exhaust is also right. It allows more power

 

[nanokpsi]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
Euphoric is right. Nanokpsi and GSXJEFF, you guys are forgetting about the hot side of the turbo.

You would be right if you just changed compressor wheels, the only difference would be the efficiency of the compressor wheels.

But most big turbos have bigger turbines and exhaust housings this lets the engine breathe more up top. When the engine can exhaust more gases faster because of the turbo hot side, the same psi for a smaller turbo flows a lot less air then at the same psi for the larger turbo.

This would be right in either direction. If the hot side on the 50 trim was really small (.48)with the .69 exhasut wheel then you went to a 56 trim that had .63 exhasut with the t350 wheel, you could make more power at the same psi due to the more favorable exaust manifold /intake manifold pressure ratio. The converse is also true here and you would make less power with the 56 trim and undersized hot side. That is why I left it out of the arguement. Not to mention this the main comparison was on the pte units with the same exhasut housing.

As for the Honda comparison, any peformance increase form going to a larger huffer is most certainly due to efficiency or a better suited hot side. Especially if you are refering to the low boost kits as they are no where near the max of some of the turbo manufatcures put with the kits.

My hole point is taht so many poeple out there are jumping on the sc 61 band wagon when most of the time it's not needed. I doubt there are many people that are to the point to where they need something like this instead of something like a 50 trim. If you are maxing out a 50 trim you probably have a bettrer timeslip than most of the people you regularly troll the forums. Plus some people are stock on "this turbo flows more at the same psi" thing and its just a bad way to think.