psi in a 420a

[napkinthief]

at 8 psi how does the 13b fare? it spools faster than the 14b and is built for automatics what are its downfalls, does anyone use it? does it make for an easy 14b upgrade later on?

and for ic piping, how much power would i be losing if i dont use mandrel bends? i am planning to use those exhaust piping sections from autozone, would that be a good idea?

 

[DSMcrazy3]

It may spool 200 rpm faster than a 14B, not a big difference. You can usually find good 14Bs for 100-150 so I would just go with that if that's what you're in the market for, but as GSgoinfast stated, T3's are much easier to find, and find parts for. You can also get T3's for 100 if you look.

As for piping, any crease like that in a pipe will cause irratic air flow which is why mandrel bent is the way most people go. I'm not sure if press bent pipes would really matter or not though on 8 PSI. I've read that only major amounts of air flow are effected a noticable amount with press bent piping.

 

[napkinthief]

well i just got a 13b off ebay for 47$ shipped, guess ill live with it and upgrade later...does a 14b or a t3 bolt on or would I need another exhaust manifold?

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Word of advice. It really isn't wise to go and order something, THEN ask questions about how it will be. Whether it be $47 or $200. What if we were to tell you it wouldn't work for some reason, you'd be out most of your money, because I doubt you would get the same amount you paid for it, back.

Anyways, if you want to go from a 13/14b to a t3 you will have to have a new manifold flange. Usually with 420A turbo manifolds you can just get it reflanged. I'm not sure how easy it is to even find a 13b flange though. If that's all you have I stil say save yourself some headaches and get a T3...

 

[napkinthief]

does the 13b and 14b use the same flange?

 

[redeclipse7782]

Just to clarify a few things from first hand experience. No you do not have to upgrade your stock internals to run boost, anything over 8lbs of boost and i would highly recommend it. I shattered all 4 of my piston landings on 10lbs of boost with 70,000 miles on my engine. Air/Fuel ratio is key. If you plan on buying an safc then plan on buying a wideband o2 and/or having it tuned by a proffessional. There is no other way to accurately tune a car then with a wideband. Also the SAFC is great but it advances timing under boost, which is very bad, and you should purchase an upgraded ignition or standalone computer to retard timing under boost.
What you need to realize is this sport of modifying cars is a VERY expensive sport, you think to yourself oh i am only going to buy this, well if i get this then i need to get this, oh and i need this to. Everything individually is reasonable but all together it is a lot of money.
I can not tell you how many hours I have spent on this board and others, researching and learning as much as I can. Always review a product or an install before attempting it so you know what to expect and you can research questions you will come across in the install.
I did not plan on re-doing my block but I was driving it at 10lbs and the car just shut off luckily i was on my street and i coasted it into the driveway, attempted to turn it back over and hopefully none of you have to experience this, but there is a distinct difference in sound when you turn over your car with compression and when you turn it over without compression. When people tell you to upgrade your internals it is for a reason. The advice is usually coming from someone who NEEDED to upgrade there internals because of destroying them under boost. Even though you dont PLAN on upgrading your internals, dont rule out the fact that one day you may NEED to upgrade them.

 

[napkinthief]

found a guy on ebay selling 420a manifolds for 200 a pop, welds any flange any there that you need, including the 13b, going to go with it.


question about fuel, with a walbro 190 or 255? (leaning towards 190) would i need a fpr with 190?

 

[BigRand]

Post the link about the manifold on ebay, because some of those are prone to crack. And a lot of the guys on here will tell you which ones they've had good success with.

As for the Fuel pump, you should lean towards the 255, get it installed once, and not worry about your fuel pump again. That way if you go biggger, later, you already have what you need back there.

Price can't be that much of a difference. as I can find one for about $100-$130

And yes you would need a fpr with any fuel pump upgrade,

 

[napkinthief]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neon...33742QQitemZ8018030326QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


thats the guy selling the manifolds, they are welded so im guessing subject to cracking? every article i read about cracking is because there was not enough support for the weight of the turbo and downpipe, is that the reason?



p.s. what brand fpr is best for my application? would an autozone one work?

 

[BigRand]

Well I'm a big fan of the Aeromotive FPR, if your going with the 1:1 style fuel setup.

If your going with the FMU style, go for the SFMU for adjustibility.

 

[napkinthief]

We provide a full hassle free 1 year replacement warranty against cracking as long as the manifold is not modified/milled or molested in any way, and yes I will change the flange to another type turbo free of charge at any time you wish to change the turbo ,shipping charges are to be pre paid by the customer!!

That is a quote from his reply to my question of is there a warranty and can you change the flange. Seems reasonable enough, gonna start saving for the manifold right now.

All I have left to get is:

Manifold: 200$ + shipping
Walbro 255: 99$ shipped
Oil lines: still looking for a full kit
SAFC: cheapest one I can find from now till I have everything else
FPR: Aeromotive so far, 100$

thats 400$ + safc and oil lines, should be done within month and half, just in time for spring wooo

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Do you have an Intercooler yet? I can't remember if you did. Anyways you left out piping. IC and Downpipe. You'll need couplers, clamps, bolts, nuts here and there, gauges. There's probably more that you will need. I just can't remember LoL...I don't want you to forget anything then remember and be like CRAP! More money!

Where you getting the oil lines, and how much for them?

 

[napkinthief]

I got an intercooler, and I am just going to get the piping from autozone's exhaust section and piece it together like that, it may not be mandrel but at 8 psi, there wont be too much difference.

I saw a 3 gauge kit with an A-pillar on ebay for 115$, but I am still looking around for better than no-name gauges.

As for oil lines, I am not sure at all yet. Kits on ebay running 80 dollars seem like they wont be what I am looking for since I found at least 4 threads about people who got them and still had pieces missing. The piece that goes into the block to split the oil feed and oil pressure line costs 20$ on ebay. That where I am starting. SS lines are a good way to go, but I cant find longer than 16", and I am not sure if that will be long enough.

 

[napkinthief]

O and for the oil return line, my school buddy showed me how he put a oil return into his oil pan without taking off the oil pan. Simply drill a big hole for the return, put the fitting inside, then screw the fitting in on the sides. It may sound wrong but I seen how he did it on his car and it works fine for him. He used a magnet oil pan screw to pull out any metal shavings that were inside.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

What did he screw the fittings in? I don't think the pan is thick enough to tap. If you can tap it, I definitely would NOT recommend doing that because, well it's just not smart...Just pull the pan, clean it while it's out. Drill the hole have it braized or an o2 bung welded on, CLEAN THE SHAVINGS OUT and put it back on.

It really isn't that hard to pull it and put it back on. Don't take short cuts or you'll end up with no ride

 

[selmerguy]

I got an intercooler, and I am just going to get the piping from autozone's exhaust section and piece it together like that, it may not be mandrel but at 8 psi, there wont be too much difference.

I saw a 3 gauge kit with an A-pillar on ebay for 115$, but I am still looking around for better than no-name gauges.

As for oil lines, I am not sure at all yet. Kits on ebay running 80 dollars seem like they wont be what I am looking for since I found at least 4 threads about people who got them and still had pieces missing. The piece that goes into the block to split the oil feed and oil pressure line costs 20$ on ebay. That where I am starting. SS lines are a good way to go, but I cant find longer than 16", and I am not sure if that will be long enough.

dood........... for the tee in the back of the block go to home depot. buy a 3/8 npt tee and make it yourself. 10 bucks max

and i second taking the pan off to tap. weld a fitting in as well. no since in doing it wrong. a magnet will not get all the shavings out. plus you can't screw a fitting into the pan it will not seal. your buddie will have a oil leak very soon.

 

[XMasta19]

...and while you're fixing these things we're telling you, do yourself a favor and get an intercooler piping kit off of ebay and not those crush bent pipes that will probably cost just as much

 

[BigRand]

MMMMMMAAAAANNNNNNDDDREEEELLLLLLL........>You make my DDDAAAAYYY!

 

[napkinthief]

yea I was thinking he was going to have a leak soon, and I am still wanting to take it off and weld in the fitting. I have a short while to think about it, but since you guys are the smartest I will probably pull and weld.

What are the exact parts from home depot?

and I cant find any kits for the 420a piping

 

[XMasta19]

you can't find any 420a piping kits....because nobody makes one (unless it's hahn or star kit)


just go to ebay and get a universal 2.5" intercooler piping kit w/couplers. Then go ahead and get some of the nice silicone couplers from atp for the important connections.




LOWES KNOWS

 

[selmerguy]

yea I was thinking he was going to have a leak soon, and I am still wanting to take it off and weld in the fitting. I have a short while to think about it, but since you guys are the smartest I will probably pull and weld.

What are the exact parts from home depot?

and I cant find any kits for the 420a piping

ok i will try to tell you all the parts from home depot.

3/8npt tee, male to male 3/8 npt fitting,(with the nut in the middle) and a reducer for the the oil line. i think i had to get a male 3/8npt to female 1/4 npt and then a male 1/4npt to male 1/4 tube fitting. trust me... when you get there and look at it it will all make since. if you want to put a oil pressure gauge you have to make another tee and put the two togeather. look at gs going fast turbo how to. there is a good pic of the tee he made i think.
i have oil pressure sensor, oil temp sensor, and the oil feed for the turbo all tee'd in. you should figure out what size feed line you are going with so you can take it with you and get the right size tube fitting (an).

 

[napkinthief]

ok i stopped by lowes after work and got a headache, but now reading your explanation and gs goin fasts guide, its all coming together,

I was looking at my car today, where exactly is the tee supposed to go on the block and whats the easiest way to get in there?

 

[selmerguy]

ok i stopped by lowes after work and got a headache, but now reading your explanation and gs goin fasts guide, its all coming together,

I was looking at my car today, where exactly is the tee supposed to go on the block and whats the easiest way to get in there?

back of the block get there from under the car. you will need to go to autozone and get a oil sender socket. (some people use a 1 and 1/4 deep socket. )

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I was looking at my car today, where exactly is the tee supposed to go on the block and whats the easiest way to get in there?

Selmer is right, about behind the block. There are 2 sensors back there though that look almost identical, just one is shorter. When under the car the farthest to the left is it, or the longest.

You really don't even need that switch anymore if you get an oil pressure gauge. The switch back there triggers what we call a, "dummy light". There's a reason for the name If you get the gauge, skip getting another tee and just put the reducer where you would put the regular oil pressure switch I hope that didn't confuse you haha, if so let me know.

 

[napkinthief]

The switch to make the dash light go on?

now, I am looking to get 250 hp or as close as possible without touching anything internal on the engine, this kit will get me near 200, what else can I do after wards? which guide would I follow now, the turbo 2g or n/a 2g

and would having a air/fuel gauge be enough to tune with if I just keep it slightly more towards the rich side for now?