Possible street legal 200HP N/A?

[na90dsm]

200hp is do-able. im hoping for 300hp n/a with no nitrous on my setup im building now. gettin cams within the next 2 weeks

 

[GSGoinFast]

200hp is do-able. im hoping for 300hp n/a with no nitrous on my setup im building now. gettin cams within the next 2 weeks

uhh are you serious or joking?

if your serious... good luck with that

 

[dustyb]

Are you serious? this is the most uneducated, unfounded, rediculously stupid post I've seen in a while. Do some research man the 420a puts out about 150 at the flywheel, were the hell did you get the hp rating of 110? Having you been reading too many honda tuning magazines? I mean seriously if you're gonna flame someone at least do some research first.

And btw 200hp from the 420a is very easy to attain with some time and tuning, I'd say you can do it for about $2000 if you do the work yourself.

its 140 to the flywheel and 110 to the wheels. i had a few too many drinks that nite. anyways, i don't give a shit. you think you can obtain 200 hp out of $2000 bones if you do the work yourself. tell me, can you bore/balance/port/or dyno by yourself?

200hp is do-able. im hoping for 300hp n/a with no nitrous on my setup im building now. gettin cams within the next 2 weeks

www.2gnt.com is all i have to say for you child.

all in all, 200 hp on a n/t is doable with thousands of dollars to burn like firewood, gallons of c16, and a few heads. 12.5:1 compression pistons KNOCK at idle running c16 gas. tell me, how are you going to get to THREE hundred HP? pushing the compression up to 15:1 on jet fuel? or you just gonna constantly keep on hooking up propane bottles? i have a 50 gallon drum that you might be able to compress some propane in......

 

[GSGoinFast]

its 140 to the flywheel and 110 to the wheels. i had a few too many drinks that nite. anyways, i don't give a shit. you think you can obtain 200 hp out of $2000 bones if you do the work yourself. tell me, can you bore/balance/port/or dyno by yourself?



www.2gnt.com is all i have to say for you child.

all in all, 200 hp on a n/t is doable with thousands of dollars to burn like firewood, gallons of c16, and a few heads. 12.5:1 compression pistons KNOCK at idle running c16 gas. tell me, how are you going to get to THREE hundred HP? pushing the compression up to 15:1 on jet fuel? or you just gonna constantly keep on hooking up propane bottles? i have a 50 gallon drum that you might be able to compress some propane in......

umm 2gnt.com wont help him i dont think... hes a 1gnt

 

[defrag010]

Ok, here comes the thriller...

How many of you Own or have Seen With Your Own Eyes a 420A that dynoe'd 200+ whp without any poweradders (nitrous and turbo) ??????? Until you have, simply getting on here and saying higher compression with head flow work will magically give you 90whp just isn't going to do it. Real world Experience > all.

 

[GotSome-Turbo]

its 140 to the flywheel and 110 to the wheels. i had a few too many drinks that nite. anyways, i don't give a shit. you think you can obtain 200 hp out of $2000 bones if you do the work yourself. tell me, can you bore/balance/port/or dyno by yourself?

Not to be an @ss but yes I can, not sure if you know or not but my dad owns a body shop so my family has a lot of connections who will do the work as a matter of a fact I can run on a dyno whenever I want and as far as the port/polish/balance/bore work I can get it done for free too. I actually just got a perfectly good 420a engine for free from having these connections, I'm sure you were unaware of this so I won't flame you for it

to show you some of the stuff I've done, here's a link post from last year to my GST I rebuilt and sold last year(yes I had a GST and decided to keep the RS instead b/c the RS had fewer miles and was in better condition) I also have some pics of the RS rebuild and a vid of me painting the ghost flames on it, if anyone knows how to get DVC onto the comp I can put it up.

 

[dustyb]

Not to be an @ss but yes I can, not sure if you know or not but my dad owns a body shop so my family has a lot of connections who will do the work as a matter of a fact I can run on a dyno whenever I want and as far as the port/polish/balance/bore work I can get it done for free too. I actually just got a perfectly good 420a engine for free from having these connections, I'm sure you were unaware of this so I won't flame you for it

body shop works on BODY parts. Mecchanics shop works on MECHANICAL issues of cars. tell me, which one of your dad's do you have? how are you going to make enough displacement out of your car to make up for 90 whp? an f20 engine runs 12.5:1 compression, and has the best all-motor engine manufacturer (for a 4cyl) doing all the research and work, and are only pushing 210 to the wheels, ALL MOTOR. we're talking about a 30 THOUSAND dollar car.....

p.s. a GST is forced induction, so it wouldn't really matter in this thread now would it? and i am being an ass

 

[GotSome-Turbo]

body shop works on BODY parts. Mecchanics shop works on MECHANICAL issues of cars. tell me, which one of your dad's do you have? how are you going to make enough displacement out of your car to make up for 90 whp? an f20 engine runs 12.5:1 compression, and has the best all-motor engine manufacturer (for a 4cyl) doing all the research and work, and are only pushing 210 to the wheels, ALL MOTOR. we're talking about a 30 THOUSAND dollar car.

MAN, startin again huh? check this out dude http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/, that's alcoholic's anonymous. Quit drinking or learn to read better is all I got to say, seriously reread my post and then tell me if what you posted really makes sense, seriously. I'm not even gonna get mad, maybe I can send you some hooked on phonics to help you read better?

 

[DSMcrazy3]

body shop works on BODY parts. Mecchanics shop works on MECHANICAL issues of cars. tell me, which one of your dad's do you have? and i am being an ass

He said his dad has connections man...calm down, count to 10 or somethin...and to answer ur question..yes

 

[defrag010]

yes oh yee of little faith. i talked to someone on here who knows peoepl at polk performance. they have all motor cam sets for the n/t 4g63 which im seeing about. well cam specs. he has a guy in texas running a 2.4L block with a 4g63 head, stock 64 bottom end with a 63 head makes 11:0:1 compression. he has these cams and all other mods to support and is a hair over 300hp.

I don't belive that. Polk performance does alot of stuff, but "talking to someone on here who knows people" isn't cutting it. I've been to polk's shop, and I don't think don's gonna want to waste time and try to develop n/a cams unless someone paid him to do it. Why would he have someone in Texas be a test for him when the shop is in Bryant, Arkansas?

 

[defrag010]

no, I don't belive that the texas guy is making 300 horsepower with a 4g64/4g63head.. I said don would probably do it if someone paid him to, but I'd bet he doesn't have any sets of n/a cams laying around.
Until I see a dyno sheet, I won't belive it.

What are the specs to these magic n/a cams?

 

[bullettdsm]

Ok, here comes the thriller...

How many of you Own or have Seen With Your Own Eyes a 420A that dynoe'd 200+ whp without any poweradders (nitrous and turbo) ??????? Until you have, simply getting on here and saying higher compression with head flow work will magically give you 90whp just isn't going to do it. Real world Experience > all.

Yep, put up or shut up. and if you put up, let me know how you did it

 

[Thunderskull]

I think it's entirely possible to go 200-220ish to the wheels in a n/a 1g with significant mods. If the Honda boys are running 200+ hp with n/a 4bangers then the 4g63 shouldn't have too much trouble doing the same. This is especially true since we have a pretty decent head and intake right from the getgo. However, 300+ I think is pushing it a little unless you have crazy high compression, serious engineering, and are running on alcohol. Plus, you would have no low end to speak of. It would never be streetable. Many of the large displacement v8 engines are running 400hp with 10.5:1 compression. I can't see how a 4g64 bottom end with a 4g63 head and 11:1 compression can eeek out 300 horses even with other supporting mods. No cam in the world is going to make that happen.

 

[GSGoinFast]

I think it's entirely possible to go 200-220ish to the wheels in a n/a 1g with significant mods. If the Honda boys are running 200+ hp with n/a 4bangers then the 4g63 shouldn't have too much trouble doing the same. This is especially true since we have a pretty decent head and intake right from the getgo. However, 300+ I think is pushing it a little unless you have crazy high compression, serious engineering, and are running on alcohol. Plus, you would have no low end to speak of. It would never be streetable. Many of the large displacement v8 engines are running 400hp with 10.5:1 compression. I can't see how a 4g64 bottom end with a 4g63 head and 11:1 compression can eeek out 300 horses even with other supporting mods. No cam in the world is going to make that happen.

dont forget, the honda boys have that thing called v-tec... the 420a has a better flowing head right off the bat and no one has achieved 200whp yet.

 

[Redmachine]

I think it's entirely possible to go 200-220ish to the wheels in a n/a 1g with significant mods. If the Honda boys are running 200+ hp with n/a 4bangers then the 4g63 shouldn't have too much trouble doing the same. This is especially true since we have a pretty decent head and intake right from the getgo. However, 300+ I think is pushing it a little unless you have crazy high compression, serious engineering, and are running on alcohol. Plus, you would have no low end to speak of. It would never be streetable. Many of the large displacement v8 engines are running 400hp with 10.5:1 compression. I can't see how a 4g64 bottom end with a 4g63 head and 11:1 compression can eeek out 300 horses even with other supporting mods. No cam in the world is going to make that happen.

Just remember that this post was about the 420a making 200 horse not the 4g-63. Nobody ever questions your motors ability. Only the bastard child gets razzed and questioned......it's because they fear us BWWAAAAHAHHAHAHAHA.......ok i'm done

 

[na90dsm]

actually through all the stuff i read there are a few specs i liek about the 420a. has slightly higher compression, has a higher rocker arm ratio by a little bit, and actually has some goo dparts avalible for it in n/a trim.

i think the 420a in all honesty would hit 200-220 hp in a streetable form faster then the 4g63.

 

[Thunderskull]

Just remember that this post was about the 420a making 200 horse not the 4g-63. Nobody ever questions your motors ability. Only the bastard child gets razzed and questioned......it's because they fear us BWWAAAAHAHHAHAHAHA.......ok i'm done

, yeah I know. It turned into a 4g63 post which I was replying to. At least you guys have a reliable turbo kit that works outa the box. We have turbo kits, but I get the impression they're a little more rinky dink than what hahn or star are putting out.

 

[bullettdsm]

actually through all the stuff i read there are a few specs i liek about the 420a. has slightly higher compression, has a higher rocker arm ratio by a little bit, and actually has some goo dparts avalible for it in n/a trim.

i think the 420a in all honesty would hit 200-220 hp in a streetable form faster then the 4g63.

WOW!

 

[na90dsm]

not sure what your wowing but ill roll with it i guess. :laugh:


id actually liek to compare rod angles and such on the 420a vs the 4g63. who knows it may have a better angle also

 

[dr1665]

not sure what your wowing but ill roll with it i guess. :laugh:


id actually liek to compare rod angles and such on the 420a vs the 4g63. who knows it may have a better angle also

Maybe he's wowing your complete lack of punctuation and capitalization?

There is a long rod rebuild kit out there now with custom (JE?) pistons available for the 420A. I don't know the OE rod ratio or the new ratio for the long rod kit, but I've heard nothing but good things about it.

The fact of the matter is, and this was touched on in this thread briefly, until someone posts on here with legitimate dyno slips of a 420A putting 200hp to the wheels, I'm calling bullshit. It HAS NOT been done and it WILL NOT be done and be streetable for a long damn time. All this bench racing and talk of people who know people is ridiculous.

Also mentioned in this thread was a shop running an NA tune 4G64 block with 4G63 head. Of course that will have a better chance of making 200whp! There is no replacement for displacement. A 20% increase in displacement would make anyone's horsepower goals more attainable. But I'm pretty sure we're talking about #1) stock displacement and #2) 420A, as this is the 2G, non-turbo forum.

I'm also interested in seeing these cam specs you're talking about. The only poduct out there with the word "magic" in it that I can see being worth a damn would be the JIC suspension set up offered by RRE. Otherwise, we're all just pissing in the wind. I'm running Crower 2s on my stock displacement, all motor 420A. Per the Crower site, the specs are as follows:

Stage 2 - Agressive street use or nitrous. Idle 1000 to 7000+
Advertised duration: 240 / 240
Duration @ .050": 192 / 192
Gross lift with 1.75: .310 / .355

I'm being optimistic when I say I'm aiming for 160whp on the dyno before I bolt the turbo up this summer. I'm running 10.5:1CR Venolias and, given the textbook 4% gain per point increase in CR, I would expect jumping to 12.5:1CR (which WILL knock on pump gas at idle without a stand alone) to give an 8% gain, so ~13whp. A far cry from hitting the 200whp mark on stock displacement. I highly doubt that stepping up to the Crower 3s with another .050 lift and 18 duration is going to make up the 27hp needed to break 200whp NA. Now this is about as close to bench racing as I want to get, but I'm just trying to say, it's been put up or shut up time with this subject for years now, and until someone proves anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's all just a waste of time which serves to confuse and falsely empower new people who would be much happier with a turbo kit than a still slow after five grand all motor car. For what they are, they can be fast, but they will never be as fast as the turbo cars, and to flood the community wit all these hopes and dreams is just sad.

 

[bullettdsm]

Hey Dr1665 you got my wow! It's exasperation! I'll second your call for bullshit on the very same grounds. Stop bench racing (or in some cases "computer software racing") and prove it. Although, I know somebody who saw somebody who was in NASA and they said they knew someone who could give them a rocket ship to the moon! But don't tell anyone, it's a secret that they only told me

 

[dr1665]

ill post proof.

Unless it's proof of a stock displacement 420A 2nd gen breaking 200whp, you aren't proving shit.

when i get cam specs ill post em. and to dude 2 posts above me who posted his cam specs, there kinda small considering what im gnna run for all motor. all motor is completly different from a cam youd run in a turbo car.

They are kinda small in that I had no intentions of being the most bad ass all motor set up to ever grace the dyno, but it seems to me that .310 lift is a bit higher than the beloved HKS .272s everyone with a 4G63 is talking about. I had a set of the Crower 3s in hand to install, but you see, I figure I'd like a little low end power. I'm building a street car (unlike you), and to have the engine come into its own just as a huge turbo spools and the nitrous kicks in would be like getting rear ended by the short bus you seem to riding. Not my cup of tea. You're still arguing all motor in the wrong damn forum. You get that, right?

here are the specs i gave ffwd to tell him this is where i wanna be abouts with my cams making up for the increase in rocker arm ratio on my build up. these drarf your cams

Gross Lift w/1.55
Int-.472 mid Exh-.466 mid

Drarf, eh? Okay. Schnarf, schnarf. So educate me here. Call up one of these guys you know and ask how those lift numbers look at the same 1.75 of the Crower specs. I'm not going to pretend I know it all when it comes to that sort of math, but I'd guess that, when you raise that 1.55 to 1.75, your .472/.466 is going to get smaller. Just how small is what I'm curious.

those are honda cams which run 1.55 rocker arm ratio. the 4g63 dsm runs a 1.7 ratio. the 420a runs a 1.75 rocker arm ratio. all that info is dirrectly posted on crowers website.

So now we're comparing Honda cams in a 4G63 in the 420A forum. You still having a hard time grasping why you're taking all this shit? At least the rocker arm ratios were useful for a sense of comparisson. Although they mean nothing considering we're still all over the assembly line in terms of powerplants...

were not talkin running cams to turbo your car later. wer talkin all motor cams,with no hopes of turbo.

Admirable goals in my eyes, however there is no car out there which can not be turbocharged. It's all in the tuning. Sure, you might only be able to run 1psi on such an engine before it knock, knock, knocks on heaven's door, but it would still be turbocharged. If you want to go all out and build the mother of all NA tuned 4G63 cars, then more power to you, but why do you persist in arguing your apple engine build in the orange forum? Not everyone sees thing the way you do, and as a predominately all motor guy, I can appreciate what you're saying. I'm just concerned that some new guy with a 2GNT is going to read what you're posting here about an all motor build and think he can drop in some HKS cams or, worse yet, Honda cams, and make 200-300whp. It's not going to happen. You drive a totally different car than we do. Arguing your all motor plans and specs in this forum is hardly different than having this discussion on a Nismo forum. Like arguing an all motor set up for a SR20 in a B15 forum. It only serves to confuse those who are not in the loop all the way.

ill post the specs on my cams when i get em. they will be (sic) all out dragrace 4g63 all motor cams

Again. This is the 420A forum. Your specs and numbers are useless here. To make it worse, the other all motor 4G63 hopefuls who are browsing the 1G N/T forum here aren't likely going to see all this potentially useful information because you're sharing your research with the wrong crowd. It does not work for us and you're just confusing the hell out of new people. It's not right. Take your 4G63 all motor build and discuss it in all motor 4G63 land at the top of this forum, man.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Ok.

Stop talking about the 4g63 and stop trying to compare it to 420a.

This guy talking about 200HP on a 420a.

Let's focus on that instead of getting into a pissing contest.

 

[bullettdsm]

dr1665, bow down to your greatness! You said it better thaan I could ever have.

 

[na90dsm]

ok i appoligize for bringing up the 4g63. i went through and deleted the bullshit i posted. well the posts that had nothign to do with 420a. also wanna appoligize for posting in anger. made some not so good posts. all my shat is gone so dude can have his thread back.


i got one question though. are you askign whp or crank hp.


also you gusy think we can clean this up and try to make a good thread out of this. im kinda interested in seeing the output of this. from peopel with experience.