Possible street legal 200HP N/A?

[dr1665]

ok i appoligize for bringing up the 4g63. i went through and deleted the bullshit i posted. well the posts that had nothign to do with 420a.

I'm sure this will help those who might read this thread in the future (hehe - those who use the search function will see it anyways). There is still some very good information to be found in this thread, and I don't think it needs to be edited.

I agree that there is no need to turn this into a pissing match. I have the utmost respect for anyone who would strive to push the limits of all motor tuning, be it a 420A or 4G63. It's just that technical specifics need to be used where appropriate and not thrown about in anger.

That said, there is a SLIM chance, if any, of a stock displacement 420A breaking 200whp without power adders. With the arrival and rapid development of the Megasquirt fuel and spark computer, there are turbocharged 420As running 23psi daily on 92 octane with 17* advance under full boost with no knock whatsoever, so I see this as the only tool which will allow the kind of fine tuning required to turn something which was generally believed to be unstreetable into a daily driven sleeper. It's just that no one has gone to those limits yet, as the risks (mainly financial imo) are too great. Give it time. The limits of the 420A have yet to be found. Current beliefs and numbers will fall up to a point, but only time and dedicated tuning will make this a reality.

 

[GSGoinFast]

i think he should first worry about 200whp, as that has yet to be achieved... then you can worry about it being street legal.

 

[na90dsm]

yea but to get to 200whp you need to get to the crank numbers first. to get those kind of whp numbers all motor is some high compression and a really thought out head setup. the bottom end is fairly simple. i mean you can build a stroker, but on the same note keeping it stock displacement or bored a little would imo go better with the revs a n/a motor would see.

200whp is difinately in standalone territory. im not positive the stock ecu setup could handle that. but then again standaloen isnt a bad idea either. take the electromotive for example. has ignition with it and can be adapted to many aplications. itll also take the duties of monitoring knock and so forth.

i have yet to see anyone claim to have found th elimits of the 420a, but with all motors i agree the limits will be found. more info will continue to be posted and found and more people will take to the motor. im interested to see the specs on the stock bottom end parts myself.

liek where the limits are abouts for the rods and pistons and such. granted with all motor 11:0:1 can still be run on pump gas. but at the same time without power adders the limits of that compression and fuel will come abouts, and it may be short of the set goal for that motor. custom pistons can be bought for any motor, just have to email or call the piston maker and see what they can do. je priced me a set of 12:0:1 compression pistons for $650 if i remember correctly.

once oyu up the compression and raise the lift of the cam though itll require more machine work definatly. youll have to watch the clearence on the valves so the added lift and the custom pistons wont hit eachother in the long run. youll have to fly cut em ect ect ect...

i havent browsed 2gnt yet and im sure its got some good info on it. 200 crank hp is reachable in street trim, 200WHP is a totally different ball game. but then again, what fuel is avalible where he is at. i can get 94 octane highest pump gas in jersey. sunoco has it. thats the highest ive seen locally. but the drag strips have the race gas on pump.

just so many variables to take into consideration when doing all motor just like any other motor build up, someone would pretty much have to be willign to go out on a limb and try it, be different and do soem hands on stuff, then post results.

 

[na90dsm]

i think he should first worry about 200whp, as that has yet to be achieved... then you can worry about it being street legal.

yea but how many of us have all legal parts on there cars. soem places limit the db your exhaust can be. not so much street legal but streetability i think is the key

 

[bullettdsm]

yea but how many of us have all legal parts on there cars. soem places limit the db your exhaust can be. not so much street legal but streetability i think is the key

Street legal? Doesn't that mean I get to drive it my car on a legal street?

 

[na90dsm]

yes but think abotu how many people on here run non street legal parts. if you get pulled over for somethign stupid and they see one part (well here anyway) that isnt legal, such as test pipes,external dumps for example, you get fined.

hopw many people on here are running test pipes or cat delete systems. i did myself. thats wehy i said streetability. but buy an inspection sticker and your good as gold :laugh:

 

[Jonathanlc05]

how much increase can you see with cams?

 

[SonySlave]

how much increase can you see with cams?

I'm normally the nice guy around here when I post but C'MON! This thread is 3 YEARS OLD! And the last post is OVER A YEAR OLD! Way to resurrect a 3 year old thread that has been dead for a long ass time! You specifically, Jonathanlc05, have personally asked multiple questions already that have been asked over, and over, and over again in the past and could have been easily searched for here and better yet, http://www.2gnt.com/! Now, you are not the only Newbie to be sitting here in this 2GNT forum asking every n00b question on the list, but I personally think you should be the last to do so... I think that if you are considered a Newbie, ALL of the posts you create, whether it be 420A or 4G63/4G64, Bolt-On Tech or Suspension, whatever... should have to be placed into the Newbie forum! Before the site rebuild, that's how it was and we didn't have n00b questions being asked here, they were in the Newbie forum... and now that the site has been redone and it was said that "New Members must limit their 420A tech posts to this forum", we have gotten every n00b question there is and numerous DEAD THREADS being brought back to life by none other than NEWBIES! Mods can take a look for themselves...

Well, I'm done venting... Nothing personal Jonathanlc05, I'm just tired of this!

 

[BigRand]

I just wanna say I like the new setup of having newbies allowed to post in the bolt on section for the 420a's That way you dont' have them getting lost in 4g63T land and still wanting to do a turbo motor swap.

I figure if we can get to them early then then they aren't buying ebay ecu chips, or trying to boost their cars at the same level as a 4g63 w/out building it first.

Newbie's just remember use the search button on dsmtuners.com and www.2gnt.com if you don't find what your looking for and still need more clarification then please dont' be afraid to post.

 

[dr1665]

Hey!
Let's not rip the new guy a new one for not searching when it's obvious that he was using the search when he found this thread. We can't be two-faced about this. If I got ripped for not using the search, then actually used the search and got reamed for bumping an old thread, I'd be pretty pissed. So f*ck that.

This thread is as good as any to discuss cam-related gains. (Although I will admit, I was hoping it was bumped because someone made some progress on the NA thing.)

John, it's nearly impossible to give you a number you can expect when installing cams. It has to do with several factors - cam profile, cam timing, and engine breathing mods - to name a few. I'd tell you that most people who install a first level cam (Crower 1, Crane 0010) say they wish they'd picked up the next level up (Crower 2, Crane 0012 or 0016).

Supposing you picked up a set of Crower 2s. You would also need to install upgraded valve springs and pick up a set of PT Cruiser hydraulic lifters and rocker arms. The increased lift and duration of these second level cams can do a number on your stock bits, and you don't want to drop a valve into the combustion chamber, now, do you?

So, how much power could you get out of them? It all depends. Supposing you had an otherwise stock motor (no porting, no intake, no exhaust, etc.), even a set of Crower 2s wouldn't give you much, but they would give you something. Now, uncork the intake and exhaust, and you'll see more power from the cams.

Here's how I look at it: You upgrade your intake to get air to the engine and you upgrade your exhaust to get air away from the engine, so the cams are what helps you get the air through the engine. You can't just say, "Installing Crower 2s will give you 20whp." There's too many variables, but let me tell you this much, if you have some portwork done, an open intake and exhaust, and you drop in a set of C2s, you will feel it - from idling at a stop light to merging onto the highway around 4000rpm. It's fun.

You just have to remember that cams, like any other engine mod, provide the best gains when a part of a well-designed and tuned system. They will give you something if you just throw them in, but to get the most out of them, you need to know what they do and how to give them what they need. In the case of cams - air.

Hope this helps.

 

[XMasta19]

WORD...you're not even a regular poster mr sony, why would you come outta nowhere and start bashing the new guys I also like the new setup, so that all of the 2gnt newbies are actually allowed to be surrounded by fellow members and not all 4g63 guys.

 

[SonySlave]

WORD...you're not even a regular poster mr sony, why would you come outta nowhere and start bashing the new guys I also like the new setup, so that all of the 2gnt newbies are actually allowed to be surrounded by fellow members and not all 4g63 guys.

Wow, make yourself look like a jackass and people will really tell you so! Alright guys, my bad... It does make sense that they would get stuck with 4G63 stuff... I'm not going to lie and say I was having a bad day yesterday, just made a bad move. So I'm sorry for posting that and making a complete jackass of myself. You guys all brought up valid points that I didn't think of when I posted that, so again, my bad! And Jon, my personal apologies to you! I guess the only reason I don't post a lot here is because there are other people with a lot more knowledge than me that can answer questions better than I can. I'm a regular on here, but I mostly read for my own study, and chip in whenever I think I can help someone...

So again, my bad... it won't happen again. Now I'd just like to go back to being the nice guy around here! Hell, I have rep points saying I had a "friendly demeanor"! I have to live up to that!

 

[XMasta19]

Your apology is accepted

 

[Jonathanlc05]

why the hell are you pissed for doing a search. seriously i cant ask a question regarding a thread. i may be a newbie on this site but not a newbie in DSM. but havent had too much in performance mods because i had probelms registering to the site and had a few car accidents with the old eclipse. now im back and you want to rag on me. just be glad that i didnt make another thread instead of not doing a search

but apology accepted

 

[Blitzeclips]

OK everyone let's just stop the youre a newb im sorry for being a retard posts. This isn't a thread on being accepted into the 420a community..

Everyone just listen to dr1665, DRIGGS has got more knowledge on the N/A potential of 420as then anyone I know. Just let him talk so this thread has some important and accurate information in it. I'm trying to learn here! Damn!

 

[WIDECLIPSE]

Everyone just listen to dr1665, DRIGGS has got more knowledge on the N/A potential of 420as then anyone I know. Just let him talk so this thread has some important and accurate information in it.

Yes, let the all knowing God (Humper of Cacti) of n/a 420a's talk and him talk only. Listen well no0bs, for the knowledge of the 420a is about to rain down on you.


j/k man.

 

[XMasta19]

w00t brian, we await your almighty wisdom

 

[Jonathanlc05]

praise him...

 

[GSGoinFast]

praise him...

Driggs, did you start a cult I wasn't aware of?

 

[XMasta19]

roffle waffles, you're out of the loop chris

 

[dr1665]

Driggs, did you start a cult I wasn't aware of?

This thread got funny really quick. No. I did not start any cult. I am going to intentionally keep my back to the wall the rest of the week, due to fear of overzealous ass kissing 'round these parts.

I do not engage in copulation with cacti, despite any glib commentary you might be privy to on other forums. "Humper of Cacti" does not work well, either. I like to think of it as going a little something like this...

"CACTUS?!?!?! ####er!"

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I'm one of the two guys who bring the most evil form of cactus known to man to a small town in Ohio just so drunken DSMers can "play" with it. It's called "Cholla" and you can Google that sh!t if you don't know what it's all about. (NOTE: This is not me.)

I don't have more knowledge than anyone else. If anything, I have more determination to see this all motor thing out to the very end. Turbo or non-turbo; if you want to make any waves in the DSM community, you're going to have to tear into that engine. For the money I've spent, I could be pushing 400awhp, but I'll be content to see 200fwhp one day.

I was actually thinking about trying the old, ghetto-ass 14b on a 2GNT exhaust manifold trick the other night. Just so I could experience my own DSM being "fast" for a little bit. I figure I could throw in larger injectors, snag a VE table from Terry, and throw some boost at those 10.5:1 snails, but then I thought, "Nah. Not worth the effort." I wish my Daisy was fast just like every other 2GNTer wishes their car was fast, but I've decided I'm going to be that one crazy guy who does something different.

No need to bash on each other, fellas. Don't be a p*ssy, but don't be an assh*le either. Just be good, old fashioned dicks, okay?

 

[XMasta19]

I guess we're all d*cks

 

[blkendgsx]

Temporary cheap way out ........NOS, have some fun ,cry about it later.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Haha I've met both of those guys in that picture, I was like "Thats not driggs"

 

[dr1665]

Temporary cheap way out ........NOS, have some fun ,cry about it later.

Oh come on, now. Everyone knows you can run as much as a 75 shot on a completely stock 420A. 140+75=215. Give or take a few ponies, or someone who has a couple bolt-ons, and it's not that far-fetched. Now, rephrase that to, "Retard's way out ..... NOS, be dumb about it, have some fun, cry about it later," and you're dead on.

Haha I've met both of those guys in that picture, I was like "Thats not driggs"

Good guys. Cas and Blueman.