possible motor/sensor trouble

[95TSi_AWD_717]

alright been awhile since i've posted anything but having trouble with my car we've tried a few things nothing worked going to do a few more but wanting some opinions/ideas from everyone else.

We went riding around last week car worked great, next day went to start my car it turns over but won't start. we had thought the motor had crank walked seeing how i put my act clutch and flywheel in. first we tested to see if there was any spark coming from the coils, so we put my friends coil pack on seeing how mine weren't giving enough spark, changed the plugs still nothing. so a friend of mine came over who's really good with dsm he pulled some stuff apart to check the crank, the crank was fine, he sprayed some stuff in the plugs it started for like 2 seconds so he checked the crank sensor also, he saw nothing wrong with it but who knows, so were going to do the 1g crank/cam sensor switch for my 2g, there's 2 other things he said we can try if that doesn't work, but i wanted some ideas from others on what could be wrong, any help would be appreciated to get this resolved.

 

[Brentenorris]

The other day my coolant temp sensor wires dry rotted and the car would not start for nothing. Got the wires back togather and started right up. Just a idea that something so simple could cause big problem.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

yea that's one of the problems they sayed we could try to, i'll see if we can try that first before we do the others, but i think im sill going to do the 1g crank/cam sensor deal seams like it would make thing easier on that if needing a replacement in the future

 

[sniver]

You added fuel via the spark plug holes, and it started??

And you think its a spark issue? Maybe I'm missing something. If it is able to fire on ether, then its getting cam/crank signal. Why don't you attemp to run in on ether for a bit? Pull a vacuum line, or the uicp and spray into the intake. Don't hose the throttle down, or you'll screw up the iac I've heard.

Are the injectors firing, and what's the fuel pressure?



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[95TSi_AWD_717]

yea he sprayed some stuff into the spark plug holes it started but sounded like shit for 2 seconds that's how he was gonna tell if there was a crank issue so he pulled the stuff apart checked the crank it was good he said he didnt see anything wrong with the crank sensor but he said who knows, so were just gonna run the 1g crank/cam sensor anyway even if that's not the problem, but i'll take that fixture into consideration and show him what ya'll say. i'm going to end up swapping my motor for a 6 bolt soon but just trying to get it running for atleast a month so i have a car to use for school

 

[jimbob_843]

You don't have crankwalk dude! Don't jump to the conclusion of that. You have spark so its not a spark issue. Most likely a fuel problem. Check the fuel pump and the FILTER. After sitting the filter may have caught some debri from the tank. Loosen the 2 bolts holding the line onto the fuel rail, get someone to turn the key to the on position (not turn over) and see if it is getting fuel to that point. Theres a start for ya.

 

[Dhan]

A car needs four things to start: fuel, spark, timing, compression. Like jimbob said, it sounds like your fuel pump has gone out or maybe the filter. Put your ear up to the tank and listen for the fuel pump to kick in while someone else turns the key.
If you don't hear it, drain the gas tank, remove the fuel pump, and apply power to it and see if it does anything.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

we found out it's not the coolant temp sensor or the cam/crank sensor, were getting enough spark, it's getting fuel, but the injectors arent firing so were going to put my ecu in another dsm see if that's the issue if not then its a mpi relay or injectors from what were guessing. does the mpi relay control the injectors or fuel pump.

 

[sniver]

I told you that you have a fuel issue 5 days ago. Did you verify its not a wiring, low fuel pressure,or clogged injector issue?

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

i just checked this thread the other day but, we checked fuel pressure and it's perfect, and my friend said he could understand 1 maybe 2 injectors goin out but he doesnt understand why all of them went out at the same time, so we plugged my ecu into another dsm the ecu was good, we did the 1g cam angle in my car didnt do the fix, did the temp sensor, coil pack, transistor pack/plug new spark plugs, mpi relay, nothings clogged, and it still doesnt want to start, compression was perfect to, so my friend is getting the ecu wiring diagram to see what leads to the injectors to see if any dry rotted pinched ect. and i have 2 other fuses to check, we just dont understand how it froze perfect then, the next mourning it doesnt want to start, were starting to run out of ideas, i'll get a video of it today on what it's doing, maybe that can help

 

[sniver]

I understand why cars run, turn off don't restart. everything pulls more power when its "turned on" (ex:blower pulls 10a to start, and 1.5 to run..)

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...le-talon-repair-manual-get.html#post152429017
I have 2g fsm links there if you don't have the schematics.

You are throwing money away, and you haven't even checked the fuses?!?!?!???? WTFWTFWTF ... anyways.

What is the psi output of the pump with volume bleed depressed? There is a button that bleeds fuel out a clear tube on he side to simulate fuel consumption. You need a gauge with this to provide worthwhile results on a none running motor.

Take your new 1g cas off the head, turn the key on. Spin the wheel in the direction the motor turns, and listen to the injectors. are they firing or no?

You not giving sound feedback, therefore I'm having a VERY hard time guiding you.

Is this exactly how you switched to a 1g cas?

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Ideas:
Wiring of the mpi system
Water, ect in fuel.
Skipped Timing
Bad ecu
Bad injector resistor pack(never actually seen one go bad fyi)

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

my friend wolfe has been workin on my car, he's on this site he said he was gonna write all the details on everything he has done, i'm still learning, but he set up the 1g cas, resistor pack was good, he took out the spark plugs shined some light down and told me to turn it over to see if the injectors are firing and they werent, but we checked the mpi sesnor put my friends good one in to check didnt do anything, he's going to come over sometime this week to try a couple other things and see if any of the wires are bad, and take a voltmeter to the spark plug wires to see if they're getting any power, i'll tell him to post in here tonight so you can have a better understanding of it since i'm not doing to great

and the ecu was good we put it into another guys car and worked just fine

 

[wolfdawg]

im the guy helping him work on the car. the injectors are not firing. therefore he may not be getting any voltage to them. i am planning on taking a voltage meter to test them.i know for a fact i wired the cam angle up right because ive done it in my womens 2g and a couple others. they work fine. i am going to bring another cam angle just incase that one is bad. i know where the one set of injector wires are going ...ecu..but im not sure where the other set for the power run...? i never really looked into it. there is nothing wrong with the fuel pressure. pump kicks on and its getting fuel to the rail.

 

[sniver]

Thanks for the details. That makes situation rather strait forward. Ill post up how to/what to check once I get home.

Basically, one wire gets voltage, and the ecu fires it by connecting the hot to ground.

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Key on, check pin 1 on the injectors plugs to ensure there is voltage, and thats its the same between the four. If so, then to the next. If not ,then we'll go from there.

Check resistance for these; should be less than 1 ohm
Injector1 -pin 2,green? &b-53pin 1
Injector2 -pin 2,yellow w /blue stripe &b-53pin 14
Injector3 -pin 2,green w/ yellow stripe &b-53pin 2
Injector4 -pin 2,green w/ red stripe &b-53pin 15

If both of those check out fine, and still the injector don't fire, but the spark plugs do, then the ecu is the culprit.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

when you said if we do all that and the injectors dont fire, how could it be the ecu if we plugged it into another dsm and the car was running fine injectors firing and all

 

[sniver]

Well if you take the ecu out of the picture, either there's a wiring issue, or the injectors are clogged up. There's nothing more to that system then injectors,ignition switch,mpi relay,ecu and wiring.

I can not verify your conclustion of no injectors firing. I'm operating on presumed truths.

Did you pull the cas and spin it, with the car off, key on? And listen to the injectors with a screwdriver, or similar?



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[95TSi_AWD_717]

i havent done any of that i'll tell my friend from above about this post and have him get back to you, but i don't remember doing anything like that

 

[sniver]

Alright sounds good.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

here's what we found out i'm getting 11.96v to the injector plug, but were not getting any power to the transistor pack, where is the power wire located for that and what pin, we check the mpi/mfi relay both are clicking, we also are thinkin it could have something to do with the ingnition switch so if anyone knows about any of this please let me know

and forgot to add the power that's comin out of the injector plug was 11.92v

 

[sniver]

This is the fsm, its all the same minus headlight wiring. 2g-El-FSM
Pg.115 is 2.0 turbo ignition

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Coils get there power from 1G1 on the ignition switch. Pin 2 black w/white stripe

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Could you verify if the ecu is getting power in pins 12&25?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/281763-2g-turbo-ecu-pinout-w-wire-colors.html
This would ensure the mpi is functioning properly and that the ecu should be on.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

i'll have my buddy check this out and get back to you on it, but we pulled the cover off the mpi relay and watched both of them click, i know this has happened to other peoples cars before and they gave up on it and got rid of there cars, but we want to get it fixed just incase it does happen to others in the future then they could turn to this on everything we did, so i hope we get this thing runnin so i can throw on a fp green turbo i'm gettin jittery with all the waitin

 

[sniver]

I'm helping another member here, were on post 50 ish trying to sort his issues out.Making progress though. Its a tough area that most people that work on cars for a living absolutely sucks at. I'd say in out shop of 25 people, maybe 15 of our techs might as well be illiterate in this are.

Then on here we try explaining what to do, but no one is able to follow our instructions because its not easy to go through circuit, from one end to the next, checking every plug along the way.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

yea we've gone through each step before we found out the wiring we check coils, plugs, temp sensor, crank/cam sensor,crank, fuel pump, then we found out that there was no power so check transistor pack, then we checked the voltage, so were starting to narrow it down, it's a lot of work, but i'd rather fix than have money i put into it go waste and then buy another one, so i dont care how long this takes, i got the car for 700, so now the problems are starting to pop up, and it's good that my friends own dsms and have spare parts and know how to work on them so i'm not having to waste money on new stuff when were finding out that my parts are good

 

[kidtsi]

power supply blue/green wire on pin 38.

 

[95TSi_AWD_717]

on the transistor pack or ecu? we do know where getting power from ecu to the transistor and the the injector caps are showing power also there's just no signal flowing from the transistor to the injectors, so were trying to find the wire that leads from souce "a" to the transistor