pick a turbo (FP Green, BR20G, ETE32)

[IPT]

ETE32 = Heads
Green = Tails

Flip the coin. You will make power with either turbo (like Aslan says) Then it comes down to what is cheaper. You the answer to that... But then there is the "Proven" Turbo thing.. FACT: The green has been around longer. Who will give you better service.. I would see what FP has to say about your Big T-28...


Lastly. Make your own choice. I know what I will be running when I get my car back together... And most likely it will state a sercret for awhile. I will way this; It will spool extremely fast and have tons of top end power. One day I will show it off, until then you will have to wonder.

 

[NDgsx]

Try this, ets don't measure hp, mph does. Shepard ran 151mph last time out. He just likes to keep the same tranny for more than a few runs .

Larry get what will make you happy, if it doesn't that's what the parts trader is for right? All the information you are going to get is avaible to you.

On the "proven" topic, yes a few of the mutts have parts that are very good individually. That doesn't mean that they will work well in the real world AS A COMBONATION. Does anyone remember the franks anymore? That was Robert's early ideas, the green and red were the finished product after a lot of trial and error. They all looked good on paper, but did not do as well in the real world. The compressor sides of the mutts are full garret, with combos that have run well on full garret dsms in the past. The turbine wheel looks good on paper, and works well in it's native housings. The 7cm turbine housing works well, it's on almost every dsm turbo. They have mitsubishi turbine wheels though.
No one has any proof that the T3 wheels (plural as in any of them) and 7cm housing are a good combonation. Will they be large enough to keep the compressor off of the surge line of it's map? Will they have to much backpressure?
Maybe they will work great, maybe they won't. Very few of us have a good enough grasp of engineering and aerodynamics to know if a selection of parts will work well in reality. I know I'm not one of them.
Someone can tell me all the formulas and equations they want for what "should" work, but I won't care. All of it will sound like greek to any of us.
Ok now it's time for all my statements to be taken out of context in an attempt to make me look like an idiot.

 

[NDgsx]

[edit] nevermind, not important [edit]

 

[larryd]

what did you edit out and say nevermind??

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by IPT
I have not found a page with some one that has a Green with a FWD car yet.

Curt "the man" Brown ran an 11.6 @132 last week on a 2.0 60ft. Or were you talking about someone's homepage?

 

[jdmawd]

The turbine wheel looks good on paper, and works well in it's native housings. The 7cm turbine housing works well, it's on almost every dsm turbo. They have mitsubishi turbine wheels though.
No one has any proof that the T3 wheels (plural as in any of them) and 7cm housing are a good combonation.

Ivy went 10.5 on a t3 mitsu combo, agp is quietly posting times with this very same t3 mitsu combo would that not (since you guys like the word prove so much) prove that the t3 mitsu comb works? These are not fluke situations. It either works or it doesn't, the quantity of times it is done is not relevant.

 

[Revenant]

the quantity of times it is done is not relevant

True to a point, if you don't mind rebuilding your turbo often...power and performance are obvious factors, but so is reliability...especially on a daily like larryd's talking about.

It would be interesting to see how many of all these turbos under discussion require rebuilds and how often....

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by rdrkt

Curt "the man" Brown ran an 11.6 @132 last week on a 2.0 60ft. Or were you talking about someone's homepage?

I was talking about some ones homepage that list all of their modifications.

Does Curt Brown have two DSMs?? I see on the times page that he has times on the FWD list and the AWD list. What kind of mods does his car have?? Is it gutted, lightened, have a couple of hundred pounds of stero equipment and other junk in the car??

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by Revenant


True to a point, if you don't mind rebuilding your turbo often...power and performance are obvious factors, but so is reliability...especially on a daily like larryd's talking about.

It would be interesting to see how many of all these turbos under discussion require rebuilds and how often....

All of the turbos being disscussed should be reliable. The Mutts (which are just garrett parts, the ones that wear out any ways), The greens are from the franks and that technology has been around for years and the 20G if a factor turbo.

The only ones that might cause some consern are the Ball Bearing turbos. They are VERY picky about oil flow. Too much, They are pissed off to little and they are dead. Oh and the ball bearing center sections are NONREBUILDABLE!!

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by IPT
Does Curt Brown have two DSMs?? I see on the times page that he has times on the FWD list and the AWD list. What kind of mods does his car have?? Is it gutted, lightened, have a couple of hundred pounds of stero equipment and other junk in the car??

Curt does have two cars a red powered awd and a green powered fwd. Both have built motors, trannys, and use a vpc/afc combo. I believe his cars are pretty light. From what I have seen on Curt’s fwd car his biggest limiting factor is traction.

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by larryd
what did you edit out and say nevermind??

I actually forgot I could edit my post, I added to it then noticed the edit button. So I edited them both

Uh last time I checked AGP was using GT chras and wheels. I highly doubt it's a T3 wheel since the shaft and turbine wheel are one piece and a T3 wheel is used on standard shaft chras.

 

[NosLaser]

I'm just glad you didnt start with that steel thrust bearing wearing out the shaft non-sense again.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by NosLaser
I'm just glad you didnt start with that steel thrust bearing wearing out the shaft non-sense again.

give him time im sure he will

 

[NosLaser]

I was reading those posts on DSMTalk a while back about the steel thrust bearings wearing out the shaft. I was thinking to myself "has this guy ever taken apart a turbo before?? Who told him that???" On either side of the thrust bearing, you have a thrust washer and thrust collar (both made of steel by the way) and the thrust bearing in the middle. Most thrust bearings are made of brass or copper, and Lord knows it is DESIGNED to be brass, not because it's COST EFFECTIVE for manufacturers to do it that way. Point being, the shaft can't even come in contact with the thrust bearing in the manner he was describing. That's like saying you spun a rod bearing and it scored your camshaft journal. It's in an entirely different area. Nick words things on the internet really well, and to someone who doesn't know any better, he really sounds like he knows what he's talking about. And people were eating that crap up on DSMTalk! "Oh wow, you really know your stuff!" If the theory he was trying to use did happen, and the turbo got such shaft wobble that it touched down, it would hit the washer or especially the collar first, and those are made of steel anyway!!!! God it irks me what people believe just because they don't know any better.

Regards,

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by NosLaser
I'm just glad you didnt start with that steel thrust bearing wearing out the shaft non-sense again.

Well they don't even have a stell thrust bearing anymore because they are garret center sections.
I guess you really ran out of arguments this time, you are pulling up things that have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Those were the first mutts, totally different than what they sell now.

If we're going to rip into each other about things from a year ago, you didn't know what fuel pressure regulator over run was and thought that 100psi fuel pressure was just great. People eat that up too.

No I hadn't, a local turbo diesel shop. That was their explanation in the winter of 00 as to why my 20g failed. They rebuit it and it got shaft wobble 1k later. Probably had something to do with the failing thrust bearing in my engine sending metal through everything . Needless to say they aren't getting any business from me.
You forgot to note that the stock brass thrust bearing has a steel insert IN it which the shaft passes through.

Ok so now it's time to bring up arguments that have nothing do to with the what we are talking about. You can make me look as stupid as you want, but it isn't relavant to the arguments I brought up. Have fun boys.

 

[NDgsx]

arg double post

 

[Revenant]

Nick words things on the internet really well, and to someone who doesn't know any better, he really sounds like he knows what he's talking about. And people were eating that crap up on DSMTalk! "Oh wow, you really know your stuff!"

What's with the personal attacks, Noslaser?

I thought this was a polite, well moderated board...whatever point you are trying to make is not going to be helped by attacking those who wish to debate you. IMO, doesn't look good.

Besides, it's tres gauche .
Shall we get back to our discussion?

 

[NosLaser]

...If we're going to rip into each other about things from a year ago, you didn't know what fuel pressure regulator over run was and thought that 100psi fuel pressure was just great. People eat that up too. ...

When did I say I didn't know what FPR over-run was? And when did I say 100+psi fuel pressure was just great? It's horrible because you run a huge chance of locking up your injectors, and doing all sorts of bad things. However, it was a reality on my car, and I got away with it. Would I ever set up a car like that again? No. When people ask for nitrous advice, I tell them to run a wet kit, even though I ran a dry kit. My car was producing some wild fuel pressure; unsafe yes, but I got lucky and got away with it.


...What's with the personal attacks, Noslaser?

I thought this was a polite, well moderated board...whatever point you are trying to make is not going to be helped by attacking those who wish to debate you. IMO, doesn't look good.

Besides, it's tres gauche .
Shall we get back to our discussion?...

Renevant,

Nick and I go wayyyy back. Personal attacks between him and me are sort of the norm. If there wasn't any, I think that people on the board would assume that one of us has some form of debilitating disease. I've been doing my best to not use any personal attacks lately, but Nick is an exception.

Regards,

 

[larryd]

wow.. can you guys like for once, not argue and cut each other apart in a turbo discussion thread??

So are the new turbos from AGP (ball bearing) not reliable becuase of the center catridge?? the last thing I want is to have to rebuild another turbo in 5 months..

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by larryd
wow.. can you guys like for once, not argue and cut each other apart in a turbo discussion thread??

So are the new turbos from AGP (ball bearing) not reliable becuase of the center catridge?? the last thing I want is to have to rebuild another turbo in 5 months..

The ball bearing turbos are reliable. they are just really sensitive to the oil. It has to be good clean oil. That is why AGP and DSM P (not sure what FP will do with the FP30) both include an extra inline oil filter that is in the oil feed line. ALSO GET A TURBO TIMER. You will have to idle down those turbos they will continue to spin for awhile after youshut down the motor. I Heard that you can blow on the turbine wheel of these turbos and they will spin for a couple of minutes.

Bottom line... If you use good oil and change it when you should and let the turbo idle down they should last a ling time.


PS DSM Performance has the ball bearing mutts available NOW!

 

[Z1500]

IPT-

Oh and the ball bearing center sections are NONREBUILDABLE!!

WHAT?

IPT-

The ball bearing turbos are reliable.

You came to your senses


Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[IPT]

Kevin I tried to call today I never got an answer. Any ways.. IF one of the new GT turbos fails for any reason can you replace the cage and bearings or do you have to order a new center section??

 

[Ben K]

IPT,

Yes, we can rebuild the ball bearing cage assemblies.

 

[IPT]

OK cool... That sounds better. Thanks.

 

[Z1500]

FYI on contacting us. We got about 100 emails and phone calls today. So email or leave a message and sometime between 1-3AM we will call you back I don't think I put the phone down for more than about 10min. all day.

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com