Performance cams in a stock engine w/ stock ECU.

[DKING14]

Like it says im a newbie and in need of some assistance. Im looking into a cam swap in my stock 4g63t motor. Im looking at the 268/272 but am unsure about if there is any machining required and if the stock ECU will work. Any help is greatly appreciated -Dustin

 

[92AWDHX40]

Do you have a way to tune the car, have you looked at cams that idle like stock? Or drop in without any mods?

 

[Dsmj89]

Dropping in cams will not get you barely any power gains. If i were you i'd follow the tech guide and go from there. When you get to the point where you want to make 350+ then cams can come in to play to help.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/1g-dsm-turbo-upgrade-path

 

[DKING14]

Turbo yes I have. Thats what I had seen on a website but I forget what the name was and it said that it was like a bolt in application but It neglected to say if it could be used with the stock ECU and im unfamiliar with anything tuning since im new to turbo cars in general. And im not really looking for power yet essentially. Im doing my research before I jump into anything that will blow my wallet out of my back pocket.

 

[DKING14]

The original post was just a plan for further down the road. I plan on trying to get the most out of what I have at the moment. Although making my car sound like its got a little lump to it does sound like a great goal.

 

[JusMX141]

Don't do it without some way to tune.

The increased cam overlap will lean out your idle fuel trims and make the car nearly undriveable. Be ready for lots of stalling an an idle of 400-500rpms if it idles at all.

This also messes with the fuel mapping of the ECU because the cams will alter the engine's torque curve, and the factory fuel and timing maps are matched to the factory cam profile.

 

[DKING14]

Would an injector upgrade be a solution or partial solution?

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Would an injector upgrade be a solution or partial solution?

Did you even look at the link he gave you with the upgrade path? Just stick to that and no bigger injectors with no DSMLINK(tune) will be even worse.... You need a tune plain and simple.

 

[Phantom DSM]

A fuel management device will help you to compensate for bigger injectors and what the guys are saying is that you will need a way to tune with due to bigger cams. I would suggest of having supporting mods and get the most out of the turbo you have before you feel the need to have bigger cams. You wll notice the benefits if your pushing a higher limit in rev and boost range. Start with small upgrades and you can use bigger injectors and fuel management to go further. Use the Tech guide on this forum

 

[92AWDHX40]

Get a way to tune down the road and youll be all ready for mods.

 

[DKING14]

Ive done some more research. It seems like cams are the last thing to do when It comes to gain. I think im look more for how to reach an obtainable amount of horsepower with the stuff I have but upgrade the little things. Im not afraid to spend some of the money now for the ###### and better stuff later. If that makes any sense

 

[Phantom DSM]

Ive done some more research. It seems like cams are the last thing to do when It comes to gain. I think im look more for how to reach an obtainable amount of horsepower with the stuff I have but upgrade the little things. Im not afraid to spend some of the money now for the ###### and better stuff later. If that makes any sense

Thats a good way to start. Update your profile.What mods do you have currently? stock 14b turbo ? How much power do you want as a goal?

 

[DKING14]

Phantom currently no mods. Im all stock as it can be. I heard a safe obtainable limit is 250 h.p.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Phantom currently no mods. Im all stock as it can be. I heard a safe obtainable limit is 250 h.p.

Start with the tech guide from above on this thread. There is a lot of power to be made from basic mods. You can raise boos after fuel and intake mods to support it. You will be satisfied for a good while before you need cams.

 

[Clinical]

From what I'm gathering based off what I can tell from your posts alone 250hp sounds like a good goal for you especially until you learn more about these cars.

My advice for you:
550/560cc injectors
walbro 190/255lph (need a FPR if you get the 255)
2g MAF
MBC
2.5" Exhaust/Downpipe
Boost Gauge/Wideband
either better intercooler piping or get a cheap FMIC
EPROM ECU & a 91/93 octane Chip for a tune from one of the freelance tuners on the site.
Also do some free mods.
All in all I'd say $1000 could get you to a respectable 250whp area if you try to pick up some used stuff from the classifieds.

 

[Breezio69]

Ok, so I don't want to jack this guys thread what so ever, but I figure my question will answer some stuff for both of us and its about pretty much the exact same thing. Sorry op, but I think it will help us.

I have a set of cams sitting 3 feet away from me. A set of dks 264/264, which I have read to be almost a direct regrind to hks specs.

I am at a point on my car where this guy "needs" to be to throw them in, all the fuel mods, exhaust, intake, ex manifold, keydiver chip with safc to compensate any alterations, my mods are up to date except the recent install of the tubular ex manifold.... I also have a set of 660's sitting with the cams to go on in one shot (keydiver is set for 660's, I have evos in the car right now, so when I swap the safc should be zeroed out) my main questions are two.

1) is it ok to swap the 264/264 combo on the stock valvetrain
2) having the keydiver chip, will the safc be sufficient to tune for the cams at idle and anything else wot?

I have all the stuff to do the job, waiting on a set of injector seals and a timing belt to do it all in one big mess of a day or two. Have cam seals in hand, pulleys, etc... I've been reading the last week about cam installs and threads will say sure that's fine, and anothers will say pull it and rebuild the head etc etc.

Btw, my goals are just hoping to hit 350hp with my 16g, and run between 20-25psi when its said and done, I think after around then ill probably lose traction all the way through third instead of just the start. Just enjoy it as a highway beast for a while.

Thanks all, thanks op for having similar questions!

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Ok, so I don't want to jack this guys thread what so ever, but I figure my question will answer some stuff for both of us and its about pretty much the exact same thing. Sorry op, but I think it will help us.

I have a set of cams sitting 3 feet away from me. A set of dks 264/264, which I have read to be almost a direct regrind to hks specs.

I am at a point on my car where this guy "needs" to be to throw them in, all the fuel mods, exhaust, intake, ex manifold, keydiver chip with safc to compensate any alterations, my mods are up to date except the recent install of the tubular ex manifold.... I also have a set of 660's sitting with the cams to go on in one shot (keydiver is set for 660's, I have evos in the car right now, so when I swap the safc should be zeroed out) my main questions are two.

1) is it ok to swap the 264/264 combo on the stock valvetrain
2) having the keydiver chip, will the safc be sufficient to tune for the cams at idle and anything else wot?

I have all the stuff to do the job, waiting on a set of injector seals and a timing belt to do it all in one big mess of a day or two. Have cam seals in hand, pulleys, etc... I've been reading the last week about cam installs and threads will say sure that's fine, and anothers will say pull it and rebuild the head etc etc.

Btw, my goals are just hoping to hit 350hp with my 16g, and run between 20-25psi when its said and done, I think after around then ill probably lose traction all the way through third instead of just the start. Just enjoy it as a highway beast for a while.

Thanks all, thanks op for having similar questions!

I know that the stock top end can handle them,(atleast hks 264/264) the thing is i've never used that tuning system, I would recommend dsmlink if its feasible but if not i'm sure someone else can tell you if that will work.

 

[Breezio69]

I know that the stock top end can handle them,(atleast hks 264/264) the thing is i've never used that tuning system, I would recommend dsmlink if its feasible but if not i'm sure someone else can tell you if that will work.

Dsm link is feasible or in the budget if you will....but its that on the fence thing that I'm stuck on, already have a tune for the injectors and whatnot to justify not spending the $500, or having zero clue what I'm doing and spending $500 on software to tune to the setup I'm already tuned for... , sounds one sided... that's why I'd like to utilize the safc if possible. Im assuming it will only be minor tweaks in the fuel delivery.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Dsm link is feasible or in the budget if you will....but its that on the fence thing that I'm stuck on, already have a tune for the injectors and whatnot to justify not spending the $500, or having zero clue what I'm doing and spending $500 on software to tune to the setup I'm already tuned for... , sounds one sided... that's why I'd like to utilize the safc if possible. Im assuming it will only be minor tweaks in the fuel delivery.

can you adjust all the fuel trims? If you can I'm 90% sure it would work.

 

[Breezio69]

The safc uses "points" to tune at, you can set them yourself, up to I believe 8 different ones on my model. 1k, 2k 3k etc... then it averages the value between each point, so if at idle or 1k I tune -5%, and it ends up at only -3% by 2k, then it smooths it out (in theory) to where 1.5k would be -4% correction..

But no, I can't go in and make infinite points to dial in fuel trims at each one.

I could tune in a couple percent at idle to compensate, then at wot if it gets lean do a smooth map up to redline by bumping it a few percent, which I don't go over 7k.

Basically, right now my safc is being used to detune my keydiver chip... its tuned for a 660 injector and I have 560's in it right now... clogged injector, already had the evos to swap, so its corrected to take out the roughly 20% fuel difference. So if I can tune it to show no knock in that situation, I'd belive I can tweek it for the cams. I just want 100% before I do it and have it run like crap... that's all

 

[DKING14]

Clinical thats pretty much what I had wrote down on my parts to get paper. I think im going to be looking into that all fairly soon. Thanks all

Clinical. I have everything youve stated wrote down on a piece of paper. Im going to look into it more. Thanks all

 

[newtodsm97gst]

Before modding try do some maintenance first.. Nuff said...

 

[DKING14]

Since ive gotten some people to respond to this, what brand does everyone seem to go by for hard intercooler piping?