1G Oil temps on the track?

[Ludachris]

I'm curious as to what Greg was running in his. I've always used a little thinner oil in newer engines and went thicker as I put more miles on them. I guess the way to make sure you're okay is to measure oil pressure at various times (before a track event, after the last run of a track event, etc).

 

[nightspeed87]

Anyways, I run 15w50 full synthetic mobil1 right now, want to go up to 20w.50 full synthetic next, i am a strong believer in thicker oil being better on a turbo car especially one without a oil cooler considering oil breaks down anyways, miles.

Yea along those lines were what I was assuming... I get the walmart 15w50mobil1 5qrt also, but
I really believe id prefer 20w50 full synthetic I just havent found it yet local.
Ive also heard that the farther the numbers of the oil are apart the more additives in them and that the oil is more pure the closer the two numbers are..
For instance like 20w50 would be more pure than 15w50 since 20 is closer to 50 than 15..
Something like that... Just what i heard.

 

[KGB Pilot125]

You might want to use a thicker oil

Here is a quote from a local board

"What oil do you use?"
"Mobil 1 5W30."

Every time I hear that, I cringe. I mean, if my mom were to say that she used Mobil 1 5W-30, it would be OK... but when I hear that Little Billy Woodward Racer is using that same oil in his super-turbocharged whatchmacallit, I feel sorry for his bearings and journals.

Why?

Well, as far as 5W30 oils go, Mobil 1 is one of the thinnest. Maybe not at first, but it will thin out quickly. Yes, thin oil flows better... but under hard conditions, you don't want the most flow you can get... you want PRESSURE. Pressure is the resistance to flow. Am I saying that you should run the thickest oil available? No. What I *am* saying is that you want an oil that will remain thick enough to keep oil pressure up, even when the oil is at its hottest. When oil gets hot, it gets thinner... if it gets too thin, you lose oil pressure... when you lose oil pressure, you can spin bearings. This is why hardcore track racers use oils like 15W50... when you beat on your car for hours on end, the last thing you need is to lose oil pressure.

But my car starts easier with Mobil 1 !

Yes, I can see why some people would say this... oil gets thicker when it is cold. At cold temps, thin Mobil 1 5W30 will still flow without a problem. This is the reason that multi-viscosity oils were invented. 5W30 flows like a 5 weight oil when it's cold, and behaves like a 30 weight oil when it's hot. You want an oil that flows well when it's cold, so that your oil pump can do its job right after a cold start.

But... but... my oil cap says...

Yeah, screw your oil cap (pun!). Look in your owner's manual. The manufacturer of your car probably recommends thicker oils if you're using the car under "severe conditions". Simply put: racing = "severe conditions"... HOT = "severe conditions".

So, why does my oil cap say 5W30?

Mileage. That's pretty much it. Thinner oils are good enough for cars that run at reasonable temperatures, under reasonable conditions. My friend runs 0W20 in his newer commuter Honda that he *never* beats on. Why? It's thick enough for his needs, and it gives him a little extra boost in gas mileage. However, if he were to race his car, he would be stupid to keep the 0W20 in there.

So what oil should I use?

OK, here's the funny part. Not all 5W-30 oils are created equal. In order for an oil to be a "5W30" its viscosity has to fall within a range of values. Mobil 1 5W30 just happens to end up at the thin end of that range after some time in your motor, thanks to shearing. It may even shear down to a 20 weight.

The next time you're at the local auto parts store, look on the back of a bottle of motor oil. If it says "energy conserving", then it's likely thinner than another oil of the same viscosity that doesn't say "energy conserving". For example, very few of the oils from Redline or Amsoil are going to be rated as energy conserving oils, but they are excellent oils, providing very good protection. The hard-to-find German Castrol 0W30 is a very good oil. It is almost thick enough to be rated as 40 weight when hot, and it is nice and thin when it's cold to provide good protection on startup.

Take some time to look at the viscosity ratings from VOA (virgin oil analysis) and UOA (used oil analysis) reports. Look for trends... see which oils are breaking down.

To expand on what you said almost all of north american market oil will shear you will need to find a european market oil or oil intended for european cars like mobil 0-40 or mobil 0-30 to resist shearing. in north america its all about gas mileage in europe its all about oils that actually perform. this straight from our Mobil USA rep.

 

[Greg Collier]

I'm curious as to what Greg was running in his. I've always used a little thinner oil in newer engines and went thicker as I put more miles on them. I guess the way to make sure you're okay is to measure oil pressure at various times (before a track event, after the last run of a track event, etc).

Red Line 10-40

 

[Defiant]

To expand on what you said almost all of north american market oil will shear you will need to find a european market oil or oil intended for european cars like mobil 0-40 or mobil 0-30 to resist shearing. in north america its all about gas mileage in europe its all about oils that actually perform. this straight from our Mobil USA rep.

Sounds like horseshit. Europe's gas costs how much more than ours, now?

However, take your oil questions to:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
for real answers. Those guys are nuts about it.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Red Line 10-40

See? That makes me wonder if going to 20w50 is way too thick on an engine that has no leaks. If your running within factory specs in terms of clearance of the motor, running 20w50 would be too thick I would think unless you were running a "loose engine". I run 10w30, and while installing cams had a dsm shop owner say that under my valve cover was one of the cleanest and sludge free that he had ever seen even with almost brand new evos coming in.


I am new to understanding physics of oils so definitely this in my own non-professional opinion, but I would like to hear from other people. 20w50 is too thick, but ive considered 15w40.

 

[KGB Pilot125]

Sounds like horseshit. Europe's gas costs how much more than ours, now?

However, take your oil questions to:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
for real answers. Those guys are nuts about it.

I dont believe I have seen the energy conserving stamp on the euro spec bottles i can check tomorrow. Europe has achieved gas mileage through small displacement gas engines and clean burning diesels.

 

[nightspeed87]

See? That makes me wonder if going to 20w50 is way too thick on an engine that has no leaks. If your running within factory specs in terms of clearance of the motor, running 20w50 would be too thick I would think unless you were running a "loose engine". I run 10w30, and while installing cams had a dsm shop owner say that under my valve cover was one of the cleanest and sludge free that he had ever seen even with almost brand new evos coming in.


I am new to understanding physics of oils so definitely this in my own non-professional opinion, but I would like to hear from other people. 20w50 is too thick, but ive considered 15w40.

IMO on a brand new engine i would do 10w 40 or 15w 40 but i dont think id ever do 10w30 just because of the brake down factor even if synthetic.

 

[Defiant]

I dont believe I have seen the energy conserving stamp on the euro spec bottles i can check tomorrow.

Not likely you'll be finding American Petroleum Institute ratings on European products, no.

Europe has achieved gas mileage through small displacement gas engines and clean burning diesels.

Yeh. And they don't usually commute a hundred miles to work on freeways that close down a lane during heaviest density periods, nor drive cars carrying an extra quarter-ton of "safety" equipment. They tend to not drive around in small troop transport vehicles, or use two-ton trucks to drive around one person.
You'd think it was a different bunch of countries, or something. It's all so foreign.

 

[tsiboosted]

I personally run Red Line Oil 40 WT SAE Race Oil (15w40). My oil temps on a regular 20 minute session range from 240 - 250 degrees. Now I due race in the deep south where the temps are around 120 on the track. I do not (currently) have anything but the factory oil cooler on the car. I have never seen an issue with my oil even at higher temps. This 40 WT oil has done very well for me all of last season and I will continue to use it all this season. It is a synthetic oil as well.

My water temps are around 202 - 207 with 2 bottles of water wetter and regular water in the radiator. Again, this is on a regular 20 minute race for me. Those temps will come down with allot of things coming out of the car over the off-season to make more airway to the radiator. What temps are you running now on the track for Oil & Water?

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well, on my original chassis, I never broke ~205* water, an never over ~220 for oil. This was either a half hour session or an hour of "spirited driving". I downsized the oil cooler, but am using a more efficient one. I'm using a custom 2 pass radiator that will be better than the previous fluidyne, plus it has additional cooling in a rear mounted radiator and fan.

I'm currently planning on 20w50 valvoline race oil. We'll see how that works. The only thing i'm really worried about is the increase in oil pressure that the thicker oil will cause.

 

[tsiboosted]

Greg - Just curious, why are you going with a 20w50 and not something else? Why are you going to run such a thicker oil than normally? 220 degrees for oil must be nice. Mine never goes below 240. I also have no external after market oil cooler either. My car doesnt even get warm till around 185 - 190. I wouldnt change anything really. Like I said, I was just curious why such a thicker oil. Good Luck

What oil pressures are you seeing on track now? Under race conditions I mean....

 

[drivemusicnow]

My old oil cooler was 12"x12"x1" and I had a fan on it (it's for sale right now, as it was really overkill for me) Now i'm using a more efficient one thats like 10x6x2.

Talking to other racers, they all recommend going with the thicker oil. I had some concerns with it, but from what I gather, it's more of a "safer is better" situation. Heat thins oil, therefor start with a thicker oil you won't have an issue of being too thin. A 15w40 would probably be fine as well.

Oil pressures would top out at 100 psi at 7K or so. higher than I'd like, but not by all that much. That's with a ported oil relief valve.

 

[1LE]

I run Amsoil 10w30 and on a near 100/100 day My peak oil temp was just under 130C. 120C is more typical at a road course in the Summer. Highway cruising varies between 90-105C depending on the the outside temperature (and if the oil is nearing change time, you can add about 5C). With Mobil1, add 10C to everything above. With Royal Purple, just add 5C...

Coolant temps stay right at 83C when under racing conditions. In e-way, light throttle driving they fluctuate everywhere from 80-90C. Stuck idling in traffic, the fans don't kick on until 100C and the car's idle takes a nosedive from 750 down to 600rpms (where the oil pressure light sometimes flickers) as the temperature passes 95C. So, I have a switch and manually turn on the fans when I'm stuck in traffic. With the fans forced on, the coolant temps will stay between 80-85C.

 

[tsiboosted]

My old oil cooler was 12"x12"x1" and I had a fan on it (it's for sale right now, as it was really overkill for me) Now i'm using a more efficient one thats like 10x6x2.

Talking to other racers, they all recommend going with the thicker oil. I had some concerns with it, but from what I gather, it's more of a "safer is better" situation. Heat thins oil, therefor start with a thicker oil you won't have an issue of being too thin. A 15w40 would probably be fine as well.

Oil pressures would top out at 100 psi at 7K or so. higher than I'd like, but not by all that much. That's with a ported oil relief valve.

Wow, my oil pressures never get close to 100 psi. When I am sitting in the pre grid, my oil pressure sit right around 25 psi. I look to see if I have pressure during races and have never been anywhere close to 100 psi/ Interesting though. I talked to my oil sponsors (Red Line) and they wanted me to run 15w40 so that is what I run. I need to get a better oil cooler, but as of right now, I am trying to just get the car back running with the new setup and I will go from there. I understand that oil thins when it is heated, but if you are not getting your engine all that hot really, the thicker oil could cause an issue after extened use. Your temps dont seem to get anywhere what ours do at the track. Could be where you race and how you race as well. Red Line actually had concerns with me running 15w40 at first then I told them my oil temps and they suggested the 15w oil for my purposes.

I run Amsoil 10w30 and on a near 100/100 day My peak oil temp was just under 130C. 120C is more typical at a road course in the Summer. Highway cruising varies between 90-105C depending on the the outside temperature (and if the oil is nearing change time, you can add about 5C). With Mobil1, add 10C to everything above. With Royal Purple, just add 5C...

Coolant temps stay right at 83C when under racing conditions. In e-way, light throttle driving they fluctuate everywhere from 80-90C. Stuck idling in traffic, the fans don't kick on until 100C and the car's idle takes a nosedive from 750 down to 600rpms (where the oil pressure light sometimes flickers) as the temperature passes 95C. So, I have a switch and manually turn on the fans when I'm stuck in traffic. With the fans forced on, the coolant temps will stay between 80-85C.

I also have a switch to turn my fans on manually. It works out well for my racing. My car idles at about 1200 rpm when it is to temperature. On our warmup laps, my coolant temps will stay constant at around 190 - 195. Under racing conditions they go to 204F - 208F. Oil temps warm up are 210 - 220, racing conditions 240F - 245F. Well within operational specs but I want to bring them down a bit more. Its actually funny, my dad races a Panoz Esperante GTS and his oil temps are never under 250F under racing conditions. With an external oil cooler. But for him, it is well within specs.

The car last season ran really strong with what little we had done to it engine wise. The temps never presented any issues that we saw in the performance of the engine or what it looked like when we broke it down to rebuild earlier this month. Now I change my oil every event (practices and races) I go to, so last season I changed my oil around 20 times in a 7 month span. I went to 6 Grand Bayou Race Series events with another 4 testing sessions. With all of that, I put about 18 total hours; give or take, since August of 2007 to March of 2008. The car ran great...But all of this is how I have my car setup and you have yours setup and what we put them through. As long as your setup is working, I say stay with it you know? My car obviously is not a daily driven car and only sees race track time and raacing conditions.

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

Sorry to revive a fairly old thread, but I was curious what you've all found out since in regards to oil coolers? A few people mentioned wanting to go with a different set-up. Results? As for oil temp limits, I'm not sure if this helps at all but in my V (sorry it's the only car I've had any track time with), the oil temp warning went off at 280 degrees on the digital readout (gotta love the 101 degree Buttonwillow heat ). And that's the manufacturer set warning level, so I would assume the 260ish people have mentioned should be safe. Oil is oil regardless of the engine.