The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support ExtremePSI

Of scavenging effect, exhaust velocity and pipe sizing

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

91-GS

Proven Member
1,390
65
Jan 12, 2013
Paris, Tennessee
Have been reading a bit about how exhaust gases act in the system and learned that the so-called "scavenging effect" greatly increases low-end torque. The effect is produced by pulses of gas that create vacuum behind themselves as they rush through a pipe. That vacuum helps to pull exhaust gases out of cylinders to allow, reducing energy losses associated with pistons having to push the gases out.

Have also learned that as engine speeds up the smaller-sized pipes create alot of drag that hinders performance. So a larger pipe is needed for higher revving engines.

What are some of the choices when it comes to getting the "best of both worlds" and combining scavenging effect of a small pipe with free flow of a large one?

One thing that comes to mind is a valve that diverts gases into a smaller pipe al low RPM and into a larger one at high (or just dumps it outside). There is a drawback to this, however, in the fact that if the car is a street car then it practically needs two separate exhaust systems.
Another idea is to have smaller pipe right after the header where pulses from all cylinders get together and help each other. After some lengths the small pipe will go into a larger one since a pulse is already past the small section (and pulled another pulse in it's place) and is no longer "useful". So now it can rush out unrestricted more or less. Issue with that however is the tuning since lengths and sizes of all components would have to be tuned to that exact engine setup, unlike the valve idea where it is simply a matter of opening/closing the valve at different times and tweaking that timing for best performance.

What else can be done?

*Please note that this thread goes together with this intake design thread
 
Last edited:
I have nothing to add except to say the word you're looking for is scavenging, not "savaging." Just a heads up.
 
I have nothing to add except to say the word you're looking for is scavenging, not "savaging." Just a heads up.

:ohdamn:
Thanks! Have corrected the spelling.

This is more of a theoretical discussion. Let's assume that we are trying to build a time trial car that has to stay street legal.
 
And you both knew what he was saying. This thread could get interesting if it stays on track

Agreed. Since this is a topic that's rarely discussed in the dsm world.

The big thing is that scavenging is going to be most important pre turbo, 2 exhaust systems isn't necessarily the case since post turbo the pulses are not going to be nearly as severe (read: still semi-important), but scavenging is going to come into play in the exhaust manifold the most. This is where you can get into equal and unequal length manifolds. I'm by no means an expert, especially not in FI scavenging, but I have helped in the 3g community building headers for the 6g72.
 
The other point you are missing is the intake. A "true" ram air pushes the air into the cylinders after the air charge "bounces back" off the valve, its not just a couple badges and vents in the hood :). Couple that with your "scavaging" and you could have a significant increase in overall power.

That's way too much for me to get into, especially after a few brews... but that's what google is for! Enjoy reading up on that one too!!

Btw, if you google it. Google "intake runner tuning". Comes up with the most results and explanations
 
Agreed. Since this is a topic that's rarely discussed in the dsm world.

The big thing is that scavenging is going to be most important pre turbo, 2 exhaust systems isn't necessarily the case since post turbo the pulses are not going to be nearly as severe (read: still semi-important), but scavenging is going to come into play in the exhaust manifold the most. This is where you can get into equal and unequal length manifolds. I'm by no means an expert, especially not in FI scavenging, but I have helped in the 3g community building headers for the 6g72.

You saw he was referring to a non turbo header??

The other point you are missing is the intake. A "true" ram air pushes the air into the cylinders after the air charge "bounces back" off the valve, its not just a couple badges and vents in the hood :). Couple that with your "scavaging" and you could have a significant increase in overall power.

That's way too much for me to get into, especially after a few brews... but that's what google is for! Enjoy reading up on that one too!!

Should have positive pressure in the intake runners if its all setup right. Nothing like a boosted setup and the wrong intake could hurt a setup rather than giving it any positive power.
 
Have noticed an interesting effect. Removed stock muffler and some piping to convert to a side-exit exhaust and performance decreased. Replaced resonator with a 2" (inlet and outlet) muffler and performance increased. Increase/decrease was judged based on average MPG over about 10 gallons of same grade fuel.

That was really surprising since mileage was expected to drop dramatically after choking the exhaust down from normal 2.25" to 2".

Breezio69, let's take it one step at a time and move on to intake after exhaust is figured out. :) And enjoy those brews. From reading another thread sounds like you could really use couple of them.
 
Haha, I take it you are referring to the thread in the hang out?

Either way, that situation is dealt with, new locks!

But, I figured if you were divulging this deep into an exhaust system you may as well round it out with a perfect intake/intake manifold as well.
 
Breezio69, glad you got that sorted out.

I'll start another thread that would be dedicated to intake system.

Edit: thread about intake system started, see first post for link.
 
Last edited:
Google volumetric efficiency and dynamic flow, your answer is there :)
 
Come to think of it, do remember seeing some high performance cars where the headers were (seems like) six feet long. Probably because of that same reason. Although those were straight-er.
 
More or less to get the length they need for the powerband of that engine.

There's so much more to it than that...

Come to think of it, do remember seeing some high performance cars where the headers were (seems like) six feet long. Probably because of that same reason.

Go ahead and read some articles on the subject, as I stated above. That'll clear up any confusion and broaden your understanding.
 
Have noticed an interesting effect. Removed stock muffler and some piping to convert to a side-exit exhaust and performance decreased. Replaced resonator with a 2" (inlet and outlet) muffler and performance increased. Increase/decrease was judged based on average MPG over about 10 gallons of same grade fuel.

That was really surprising since mileage was expected to drop dramatically after choking the exhaust down from normal 2.25" to 2".

Breezio69, let's take it one step at a time and move on to intake after exhaust is figured out. :) And enjoy those brews. From reading another thread sounds like you could really use couple of them.

I do have one thing to add to this, or clarify in this. You based this off mileage from before and after a large change to the exhaust.

Whenever I add a new "go fast" part to my car, the mileage drops substantially... for instance, mbc + injectors + safc on my own car set to 15 psi. Before, 275 miles on ten gallons give or take. After install, barely saw 200 miles on the same amount of gas (always fill to 10 gallons and reset trip). Now that I'm not fast, or furious and tuned at 18 psi, last tank saw 305. I'm tuned a hair lean on my cruising and 10.9-11.3 throughout wot.

I know you are talking about nt, but the principle is the same... the car gets louder, the foot gets heavier. The only claim you can make on a performance loss is straight up dyno numbers. Not gas mileage.

Edit: and I'm sure once I install my open dump that's sitting on my desk, ill be back in the low 200 range :) that's just how it works...
 
There's so much more to it than that...



Go ahead and read some articles on the subject, as I stated above. That'll clear up any confusion and broaden your understanding.

Oh I know there it. I myself have barely tapped into header design. I know displacement and rpm range play a factor in the design. Maybe some links to good articles would help out here for some to get a better understanding.
 
Can do.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency]Volumetric efficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics]Fluid dynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Quite a lot to swallow, but fairly well described.
 
You're* You were saying?

While I don't claim to be knowledgeable on the subject, as I've not got an engineering degree, you're in no position to scrutinize my level of intelligence. Which if we're basing that purely on what we're reading here I'd say between you and I, you're lacking.

Safe to say I'm not an idiot, but thanks for the insult.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top