NT Engine on a Turbo Car [1G]

[Oblivion02]

I had some problems with my old turbo engine because the previous owner did not do proper maintainance. Now the thing is, I purchased a 90 Eagle Talon NT. I'm going to put in the whole engine into my Turbo car. Is there anything I need to look out for? Anything I may need to change? I'm getting new turbo pistons, and considering putting in the turbo cams of my old engine as well.

NOTE: This is not a NT to Turbo conversion... My car is turbo, Im just putting in a NT Engine.

Will the NT Engine in my Turbo car cause any problems? What about performance?

 

[19Eclipse90]

ECUs are different, harness has some differences, exhaust from the manifold to the catalytic converter is different, intake piping is different. Just a few things to think about.

Obviously the motor is not turbo, so you will be sacrificing some performance. Though if you do everything right, you shouldn't run into any problems.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I'm reading this different than the guy above, but I may be wrong.

You want to rebuild a NT block to replace your current motor? And keep the turbo right? SHouldn't be a problem, make sure you swpa all your sensors, like the knock sensor.

 

[dsmconvict]

If the car is going to remain pretty much stock just drop in some 1g turbo pistons and then your cams and you should be ok. Use all the 91 accessories because the 90's are different. The only known differences I can think of off the top of my head is there are no oil squirters, 9:1 compression, and you need to tap the block for a knock sensor.

Chris

 

[big_d]

NO tapping the block for the knock sensor, there is a spot for that on the n/t block, new pistons and cams and you will have a turbo motor (minus the oil squirters of course) ...big_d

 

[dsmconvict]

Doh I forgot... Don't forget to swap the oil pans

 

[MountainDew]

Another difference is that the 90 uses an external oil cooler, which I would highly recommend swapping into your turbo car.

Definitely switch your cams as well. Thats the biggest major difference between N/T and Turbo.

 

[GnArKiLL70]

if your going to use the STOCK nt bottem end it can only take about 10psi of boost ### the ring landings on the pistons are higher up and the compression is also higher.. but if your going to rebuild and dont want to spend alot go with the good old 1g rod 2g piston cheap and easy...

 

[19Eclipse90]

I'm reading this different than the guy above, but I may be wrong.

You want to rebuild a NT block to replace your current motor? And keep the turbo right? SHouldn't be a problem, make sure you swpa all your sensors, like the knock sensor.

Ha, I didn't even look at it like that. I saw the big NOTE he had at the end so I figured he was taking the turbo and everything out.

Yeah, if you are planning on keeping it turbo, buy a set of turbo pistons and swap them in. You will need to use the 91 coil pack, 91 CAS would be easiest to use, swap the throttle body, cams, oil pan, water pipe behind the turbo and oil filter housing if you do not get ahold of an external oil cooler.

Another difference is that the 90 uses an external oil cooler, which I would highly recommend swapping into your turbo car.

Definitely switch your cams as well. Thats the biggest major difference between N/T and Turbo.

90 N/T motors do not use external oil coolers.

 

[MountainDew]

Ha, I didn't even look at it like that. I saw the big NOTE he had at the end so I figured he was taking the turbo and everything out.

Yeah, if you are planning on keeping it turbo, buy a set of turbo pistons and swap them in. You will need to use the 91 coil pack, 91 CAS would be easiest to use, swap the throttle body, cams, oil pan, water pipe behind the turbo and oil filter housing if you do not get ahold of an external oil cooler.




90 N/T motors do not use external oil coolers.

Really I thought all 90's used the non-water cooled housing? I could see if the N/T didn't have the oil cooler, but I thought they still used the same housing?

My mistake if I'm incorrect.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Really I thought all 90's used the non-water cooled housing? I could see if the N/T didn't have the oil cooler, but I thought they still used the same housing?

My mistake if I'm incorrect.

They all use the non-watercooled housing, and all can use an oil cooler, but 90 N/Ts did not have the cooler. So if he is going to use the turbo and cannot get ahold of an external oil cooler, than he will need to change the OFH and the water pipe behind the turbo.

 

[wolf20043]

I'm getting new turbo pistons, and considering putting in the turbo cams of my old engine as well.

He undersatnds he need to use the Turbo pistons, hence the comment. Swap you old oil filter housing, cams, TB, and injectors and you are good to go. Cams, pistons, and injectors are the main differences. Minus oil squirters.
Mike

 

[dsmer1G]

So it is ok to use the n/t block without oil squirters, how much power would i be able to push it without them? Will it last as long as a dailey driven car if boosted everyday?

 

[Oblivion02]

Timing Belt is brand new. The turbo pistons are brand new, and the turbo cams are in great condition. I have no idea what oil squirters are.... How well will an NT Engine perform in a Turbo Car? I had really high hopes for my car, and I was hoping to really squeeze the most performance out of it... BUt now this is looking like a major set-back....

 

[allwheelTSI]

So it is ok to use the n/t block without oil squirters, how much power would i be able to push it without them? Will it last as long as a dailey driven car if boosted everyday?

Absolutely, there are lots of high horsepower cars out there running without them. Some people prefer to run without them for various reasons, mainly because it's one less part to fail.

 

[allwheelTSI]

Timing Belt is brand new. The turbo pistons are brand new, and the turbo cams are in great condition. I have no idea what oil squirters are.... How well will an NT Engine perform in a Turbo Car? I had really high hopes for my car, and I was hoping to really squeeze the most performance out of it... BUt now this is looking like a major set-back....

If you build it the same as you would the turbo motor there will be no difference in potential.

 

[Oblivion02]

Well, I'm putting the whole head, block, everything in the turbo car. The turbo car has all of its part fine... Its just the engine. I plan on switching the oil squirters as well. So with the turbo cams, turbo pistons, and oil squirters, I should have the same performance-wise, right?

 

[dsmconvict]

I don't think you can switch the squirters. The n/t block will be just fine just make sure you swap them parts out and you'll be good to go.

 

[Oblivion02]

I don't think you can switch the squirters. The n/t block will be just fine just make sure you swap them parts out and you'll be good to go.

"them parts" meaning the turbo cams and turbo pistons? Or do I need something else? Keep in mind that the car has all the stock turbo parts, the only thing is that I'm going to put in a NT engine.

 

[dsm-onster]

These guys made a good point I didn't mention in my PM to you. The 1990 n/t engine bay does not sport an oil cooler. So you should keep your turbo oil filter housing and all the lines and cooler (cooler and lines should still be in the car).

Of course swap pistons. You already have pistons. And you have 6 bolt rods which should be in good shape on the big end, if the n/t motor was a running motor. Don't waste your time cleaning up the turbo rods as the n/t rods are the same and you may have to cut on the big end bore since you're turbo engine apparently had bearing damage (you mentioned poor maintenance by previous owner).

It is true that the n/t pistons are "weaker". By weaker I mean that they handle power fairly well, but they don't handle detonation at a high power level. You likely wouldn't melt/crack an n/t piston because of too much power, but because of the force of any knock you would get at higher than stock power levels. It's like driving around a ticking timing bomb. The thin ringlands will crack and you'll have a scored block and worse.

The oil squirters apparently were what Mitsu felt is a good idea for a turbocharged 4g63. With that being said, I've had no issues running my brothers car without them. He's swapping to a small 16g and planing on maxing it out at around 350whp this year. I know of others with much more daily driven horsepower without squirters and have had no issue. If you MUST have them, there right in the turbo block. And there are dimples stamped out in the n/t block. So the machinest doesn't even need to measure the turbo block to put them in.

The n/t throttlebody is a good upgrade not because it is bigger. But, because it allows you to run 2.5" intercooler piping right to the throttleplate. It has a bead around a 2.5" external diameter inlet. It does neck down to 60mm by the butterfly and through to the intake manifold flange. You can even run stock intercooler piping with the n/t throttlebody. Since the n/t throttlebody accepts a 2.5" coupler, you can get a 1.75" metal mandrel bent elbow, flare the ends, clamp one end to your stock intecooler piping, and clamp the other end to a 2.5" to 1.75" reducer coupler. You're now read for larger 2.5" intercooler piping as a later upgrade.

You will need to install o-rings with lithium grease onto the TB shaft and then flip the seals over and install them if you are going to boost the n/t throttlebody. This worked fine with me. I forgot to give you the o-ring information in my PM to you. But here it is below:

1/2 X 3/8 X 1/16, #7 O-RING, STK NO 35724B, DANCO COMPANY

Go to Throttle O-ring Replacement and More for how to pull the throttlebody apart. This is for a turbo TB. But the rebuild, seal replacement is very similar. It is enough to get it done right.

Don't forget that you'll need the turbo water pipe. Everyone forgets that . Some oil filter housings have a water line to and from them. My brothers AWD A/T 1990 did. My 1990 FWD M/T did not. It doesn't matter to you because your turbo waterpipe matches your turbo oil filter housing already.

And as mentioned, don't forget that turbo oil pan, and turbo cams.

The n/t block I "converted" to turbo had a TAPPED hole ready for a knock sensor! I've heard of n/t blocks having just the boss, having the boss with a hole, or having a boss with a hole and it tapped with the correct thread. It's a hit or miss. But you should at least have the the boss.

Swapping in an n/t 6 bolt 4g63 with the right parts is FAR cheaper than hunting down a turbo 6 bolt engine these days. The n/t engines are a dime a dosen. And like the turbo 6 bolts, the 6 bolt n/t engines have those glorious big 6 bolt rods and the larger/stronger/reusable headbolts. Oops, now the cat's out of the bag.

 

[Oblivion02]

Sorry I havent been able to post up in a while... But I've been very busy with college.
My car is nowhere near done. The mechanic hasn't even taken out the N/T Engine to put it into my Turbo, which is very depressing. Hopefully within the next few weeks I'll have my car.
Thanks for all the help, specially the parts numbers and everything. I'll keep you guys up to date once I have my car, and once I've done the TB Upgrade.

Don't waste your time cleaning up the turbo rods as the n/t rods are the same and you may have to cut on the big end bore since you're turbo engine apparently had bearing damage (you mentioned poor maintenance by previous owner).

What do mean by this? I didn't know the previous owner personally, but I mentioned poor maintainance because the ENGINE head and block where pretty deteriorated. Does this necesarily mean that the enigne had bearing damage?

 

[Oblivion02]

My car will probably be out of the mechanic this week. The parts I put into the N/T Engine are: New Turbo Pistons, My Old Turbo Cams. I bought a few things as well, like the oil pump. Is there anything I should be worried about? You guys mentioned "swapping" some parts... Do you mean from the N/T to the Turbo? :S How come the N/T Engine will only be able to hold 10psi? Its a 4G63 just like the turbo, and it has turbo pistons and turbo cams and rods. The injectors are the turbo injectors, everything is TURBO because my car is TURBO. The only thing is that the engine core(head and block) come from an N/T.

 

[Dsm2nr89]

Oblivion here is a website where you can find a low-mileage 4g63t motor for your 2g. It might just cost the same as trying to swap in the n/t motor and getting it to work. RoyalJapaneseMotors.com JDM Top quality, high performance JDM Engines.jdm motors

It's really good. These motors come with harness and all. It will save you all these headaches. Direct drop in

 

[kronus]

^^^ I think he's going to be saving money in the long run if he just continues with what he's got right now.

 

[Dsm2nr89]

Well in my point of view the motors there are low-mileage, not even near the 60k mark where the "big maintenance parts" have to be done, and direct drop in. I would buy one but i'm broke and anyways my motor hasn't cw'ed 98k miles FTW !