Noob Logger Question

[blackmirage]

Ok, I'm trying to decide what logger to purchase.. right now all imma do is get a keydiver chip an afc and a logger.. just not sure which one I need. My first baby step in my goal of higher power is just to obtain 15psi on the 14b, and then continue to go from there as money allows. I'm going to follow the path that is laid out on this page.. But I've seen alot of logger software and machines.. I saw one on DSMParts and then I hear about MMCD on a palm pilot type deal.. Which one is better for my first steps here?

 

[Eastwood95]

660's would be usable with a 14b, that's about the max injector size you can tune reliably with the SAFC on that small of a turbo though.....

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Yes, with DSMLink there are a lot of charges that most people don't factor into the equation which will push the price well beyond the $7-800 that most people figure on. But properly set up, it's a really nice tuning/logging package. It would consist of DSMLink (~$600), EPROM ECU (~$200+), a laptop (~$100+), WB O2 (~$200, no display), 3BAR MAP minimum (~$100) brings it up to ~$1200 on a 2G (~$1000 for a 1G since you probably have the EPROM ECU) for a complete setup. Well beyond the ~$4-500 for a chip/SAFC setup, which does a fine job, especially if you're not quite sure if you'll be sticking with a DSM. Plus the SAFC can be transferred to another vehicle type if you scrap the DSM.

If you're going with a Keydriver chip and fine tuning with the SAFC (which is really the only way to go with the SAFC) then I would suggest "popping" for a set of 850s minimum as the price difference is not much. That way you have room to grow.

 

[blackmirage]

would the 850's work while I had the 14b though?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Yes, as long as the "injector compensation" inside the chip was setup for 850s, then they would work fine.

 

[DSMunknown]

Yes, with DSMLink there are a lot of charges that most people don't factor into the equation which will push the price well beyond the $7-800 that most people figure on. But properly set up, it's a really nice tuning/logging package. It would consist of DSMLink (~$600), EPROM ECU (~$200+), a laptop (~$100+), WB O2 (~$200, no display), 3BAR MAP minimum (~$100) brings it up to ~$1200 on a 2G (~$1000 for a 1G since you probably have the EPROM ECU) for a complete setup. Well beyond the ~$4-500 for a chip/SAFC setup, which does a fine job, especially if you're not quite sure if you'll be sticking with a DSM. Plus the SAFC can be transferred to another vehicle type if you scrap the DSM.

I'm sorry Jim, but I must be a little confused. Why must one use, at minimum, a 3BAR MAP? I was under the understanding that the MAP (Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) only came into play when opting for the GM MAF sensor. Does the MAP simply replace the MDP?

If so, I don't understand how the MAS can be configured (without a lot of work) with a MAP sensor and work well together. It just seems almost impossible to me, because they're trying to do similar things in two very different ways.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I'm sorry Jim, but I must be a little confused. Why must one use, at minimum, a 3BAR MAP? I was under the understanding that the MAP (Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) only came into play when opting for the GM MAF sensor. Does the MAP simply replace the MDP?

If so, I don't understand how the MAS can be configured (without a lot of work) with a MAP sensor and work well together. It just seems almost impossible to me, because they're trying to do similar things in two very different ways.

The OEM MDP sensor that came on the car is a "manifold differential pressure" sensor, which basically checks the operation of the EGR valve. It's not a very accurate sensor to make tuning judgment calls off of.

While a GM 3BAR (or better, also different makes and models) MAP "manifold absolute pressure" sensor is a lot more accurate. Think of it as the difference between a NB O2 and a WB O2 sensor as far as accuracy is concerned.

It is NOT necessary to use either the WB O2 or a MAP sensor to tune with DSMLink as there are plenty of sensors on the car to log which will ensure a nice tune. However, if you want to push things to the limit you will require a WB O2 so you can get an accurate A/F ratio which the OEM NB O2 will not provide. The MAP sensor is just another more accurate sensor to base decisions off of as you will see exactly what boost or vacuum you were running at any particular time. In stead of trying to keep your eyes on the road and on a gauge at the same time.

Yes, I replace the rear O2 sensor input with the new WB O2 sensor. And I replace the MDP sensor input with the new MAP sensor. I would have to double check to see which pin numbers they are associated with respectively.

DSMLink is a great package by itself and will give excellent results in a short amount of time. However, with the addition of a WB and a true MAP sensor you get the final piece of the puzzle that will change a nice tune into a great tune.

I said 3BAR minimum since 14.1 (or whatever it is) is atmospheric and equals 1BAR. So a 3BAR sensor will be accurate to roughly 28-30PSI boost, which is more than I and a lot of people run. Even though I run a GM 3.3BAR MAP just in case I want to run a solid 30PSI one day and log it accurately if I do.

Bottom line: with the MAP sensor you get more accurate vacuum/boost reading compared to "boostest" inside DSMLink. That's why people install a MAP sensor.

 

[DSMunknown]

^^ Great response and explanation. Always helpful and thorough, Jim. Thanks.