Noisy lifters are killing my gas mileage

[GooeyGus]

Ok, my lifters are SOOOO noisy that it has started to effect my fuel economy. I can feel the ECU pulling timing like crazy because it is sensing the noisy lifters as knock. Other than the noisy lifters the car is running great.

BUT the lack of timing is really starting to put a damper on my fuel economy. I'm losing up to 2-5mpg because of this.

Now, I know the solution is obviously to change the lifters. I plan on ordering the 3g lifters next weekend and swap them in the following weekend.

Is there ANYTHING I can do in the mean time to make things a bit better? I just changed the oil about 200 miles ago and added some lucas oil stabilizer, but it seems like it didn't help much. If anything it seemed to tick a bit less with the old oil in there.

Also, my ECU recently died and it seems like this ECU is doing a much "better" job of sensing knock and retarding timing.

Anyway, if anyone has some tricks to get me through the next two weeks it would be greatly appreciated. This is just my daily driver right now, it might see WOT like once every few weeks.

Thanks!

 

[bomper04]

Have you tried following the bleeding procedures for the noisy lifters? Mitsu had a TSB on it and found that most of the lifters were not bad and were turned in after improper diagnosis. They had procedures outlined. There's articles on here if you search for them.

 

[the_mork]

Get a can of seafoam and put some of it in your oil. There is a mega thread about seafoam on the forum if you search for it.

By the way the best place to pick up revised lifters when I did them this summer was from PartsDinosaur, Phoenix, Arizona, wholesale engine parts and kits Ebay has some which I assume will work for approximately the same price but they are from topline and a lot of forum members have had issues with other topline products even though I've never heard of HLA failures associated with them.

 

[92dsm1]

I have a set of the cheap ebay 3g lifters in my car and they seem to be working great. On cold startups they make absolutely no noise.

 

[hondaslayer1]

You can use a mitsu oil filter from a 3000 gt. they are bigger and help with lifter and valve noise.

 

[kneipperk]

my lifters were horriblein my 90 tsi awd, picked up the tick as knock and it was pulling my timing like crazy too. i ordered revised lifters and took the old ones out, cleaned the old 1's and put em back in.. still got the new lifters still in the package. the old 1's never started to tick and that was over a year ago

 

[BogusSVO]

when did the lifter tic start? have you checked the oil pressure at the side of the head?
you may have other issues that led to this.

 

[Blak Pearl]

^ i agree with BogusSVO. If you have a oil pressure gauge, what is it reading? The lifter tick could be just because they have gone bad over time or because the top end is being starved.

 

[Morphius]

What brand oil filter are you using?

 

[snakeyes711]

I use 10-40 oil, and did 3G lifters, and there is no more phantom knock, no more lifter tick. The highest knock count I get is 7, and thats at WOT at 5,500 RPMs. Well worth 80 dollars paid for a set of revised lifters. Just get them you'll never regret it I promise.

 

[GooeyGus]

I'm using a fram oil filter, 10-30 oil with a bit of Lucas oil stabilizer. It's really only just one lifter that is making all the noise. Sometimes it doesn't tick at all, sometimes it does. I don't have any gauge other than the stock one, but it is reading normally.

 

[Morphius]

I'm using a fram oil filter.

Fram is the absolute worst filter out there. I don't have the link handy, but there is a webiste where a guy breaks down the filter so you can see how crappy the quality is. The bypass valve often is open so it's not even filtering.

Mobil 1 filters are good quality. There are several others, but I don't remember which ones.

I've had several cars that I switched from a Fram to a Mobil 1 filter and the lifter tick disappeared.

 

[Morphius]

This isn't the exact site I read before, but has similiar info:

Engine Oil Filter Study

 

[BogusSVO]

get rid of the fram filter, I use Wix or Wix Racing or NAPA gold filters (the NAPA gold is still a WIX in a NAPA box) but my rides are Fords. fram is junk, i have cut them open myself.

get you a oil pressure gauge and tap it into the side of the head and check the oil pressure there.

Have you done a HG replacement? if so did the tick begin after that?

 

[kneipperk]

i wouldn't be too worried about it being something major, lifters tick as they get full of crud and cant let oil pass thru them as easily... plus they are probably 20years old! and have you seen the oil hole on 1g lifters? TINY!!!! i couldnt even fit a normal size paperclip in em. definately order some 3g lifters but i had mine taken apart and couldn't wait for shipping. decided to put the old ones in a thing of cleaning solution (gas or brake clean) over night and came back in the morning. you would be trippin when you see how much dirt and stuff is sitting in the bottom of the cleaning bucket. i had to use a tiny safety pin to push into the lifters to disengage the lifters and pumped them many times to flush everything out, when i was done i hooked the hose onto the can of brake clean and the other end into the lifters, sprayed the hell out of them 1 by 1 (be careful where it is pointed because it will shoot literally 10-15 ft) and then let them dry. i put my old clean lifters back in and forreal no problem with em tickin anymore. that was well over a year ago

 

[snakeyes711]

Fram is the absolute worst filter out there. I don't have the link handy, but there is a webiste where a guy breaks down the filter so you can see how crappy the quality is. The bypass valve often is open so it's not even filtering.

Mobil 1 filters are good quality. There are several others, but I don't remember which ones.

I've had several cars that I switched from a Fram to a Mobil 1 filter and the lifter tick disappeared.

I'll be using mobil1 on my next oil change, after seeing that. Thanks

 

[Morphius]

Another site with good info:
Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

Summary from the above link:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html

 

[GooeyGus]

I'll try swapping the filter and see what happens, because it really does seem to have gotten worse since I put this filter in.

The head was rebuilt about 15k miles ago, although my bet is that they just re-used the old lifters. I'm pretty certain that my oil pressure is just fine.

So rather than go through the effort of pulling my lifters and cleaning them, and then having to do it all over again, I think I'll just stick it out for two weeks until I get the new lifters.

 

[gingerbredman00]

when taking out our lifters and "cleaning" them, do the rockers have to go back on the same lifter?

 

[snakeyes711]

I always put it back the way it came off, but thats me. If you've cleaned them its going to take a while for them to get good, and primed. Usually I remove the MPI fuse, and crank a few times before actually starting the car.

 

[kneipperk]

i do think that all the rockers have different numbers on them, i brought out the pen and paper and numbered what rockers go where

 

[08talon08]

when taking out our lifters and "cleaning" them, do the rockers have to go back on the same lifter?

Yes i most deffinantly would they are labeled for a reason and if you put them in different spots the wear pattern wont be the same

 

[gingerbredman00]

I simply put them in the valve cover and put them in the order and placement that they came out.
To the person that started the thread I would suggest that you take the cams out before attempting this, It can be done with them in but it's a PITA!
I cleaned mine earlier and they sounded like crap for about two-three minutes.
I turned the car off and said F-it. went back and started it back up and it sounds AWESOME!

 

[GooeyGus]

Well, I am starting to thing that this may not be a lifter issue. I've been reading a bit about it and mine are no where near as noisy as I hear some people talk about. They are quiet when the car is started, then only one or two of them will intermittantly tick and then go away.

I am starting to think that this may be a knock sensor issue.

When I reach my hand down and 'feel' the knock sensor (since one cant get an eye on it while it's installed), what should the back of the sensor feel like? I know if one feels 'goo' that's a bad thing, but should the back of the sensor feel smooth? Mine feels totally rough and pitted, like the goo all leaked out of it and is no longer there. I can feel the wire coming out, and the back of the sensor feels like it's missing material in the center; I'm assuming it is supposed to be flat and smooth.

What do you guys think?

 

[natertater]

Fram is the absolute worst filter out there. I don't have the link handy, but there is a webiste where a guy breaks down the filter so you can see how crappy the quality is. The bypass valve often is open so it's not even filtering.

Mobil 1 filters are good quality. There are several others, but I don't remember which ones.

I've had several cars that I switched from a Fram to a Mobil 1 filter and the lifter tick disappeared.

i agree. if you want quality filter like the mobil 1, get a bosch, made by same people and costs a little less, but still one of the better filters made and tested on that thread. i have one on my car, and its great!!