newbie thread, few more final questions

[josh90laser]

so got a bunch of stuff off the car and about ready to mount intercooler and run the piping


this is my first 4 cylinder car, and never had a turbo or messed with one ..... dont think im doing horrible but we will see



What do people usually use to cut the intercooler piping?

i dont have any intercooler mounting stuff, just get sheet metal and bend and drill two holes and bolt somewhere i guess?? but i dont have a drill

would leaving a/c coil on interfere with airflow to my radiator?

how good are stock fans?

running this piping looks like a PITA...

is there a thread about how to use the maft? didnt get any insructions with it on how to tune or where to run that white wire to...

and any advise on what to do next




here are some pics when i got bored this morning, dont have any saws or anything but a small air dremel.. so havent started trying to mount this piping yet...

 

[Talondvr]

Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades: Stage 0 Power - DSMtuners

MAFT Version 2.0+ Tuning Guide - Full Throttle Speed Tech Support

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...-you-want-know-about-maf-translator-maft.html

Check out the first link. You got other stuff to worry about first. Until you get a bigger turbo, injectors, etc. you wont need the FMIC or MAFT. Maintenance and free mods should be first. Check ALL fluids, ball joints/bushings, compression check, any leaks?, brakes and all that stuff. Just do research and use Google and get the FSM (there are links around to find those) for any changes you make so you know what the consequences are!

Looks like a "refreshed/rebuilt" motor and a clean car! Good find and enjoy the dsm!

 

[josh90laser]

Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades: Stage 0 Power - DSMtuners

MAFT Version 2.0+ Tuning Guide - Full Throttle Speed Tech Support

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...-you-want-know-about-maf-translator-maft.html

Check out the first link. You got other stuff to worry about first. Until you get a bigger turbo, injectors, etc. you wont need the FMIC or MAFT. Maintenance and free mods should be first. Check ALL fluids, ball joints/bushings, compression check, any leaks?, brakes and all that stuff. Just do research and use Google and get the FSM (there are links around to find those) for any changes you make so you know what the consequences are!

Looks like a "refreshed/rebuilt" motor and a clean car! Good find and enjoy the dsm!

the stock piping and intercooler was leaking like crazy from what it looked like, and i wanted to go ahead and get it outta the way

im going to do what people advise and keep stock turbo and injectors and just start putting other stuff together like the fmic, and i got the maft to run a bov and to turn the boost up more, i heard the factory ecu only allows so much before boost cut or fuel cut??

as far as free mods, ive got most the vacuum lines removed, just on that egr i wasnt sure where it blocked off from/to, ive got the lines removed from the water inlet and the tb and they all go under the intake manifold .. ill look more later and ill figure it out i guess

and i heard the filter breather will give an oily mess after a while, so i might do a catch can.


already did the oil change, and flushed radiator and filled with fresh coolant, its been sitting so the passanger caliper is sticking and itll be removed and cleaned and all brakes lines bled before i put the wheels tires back on also..

i did a compression test and they were all right on the money as far as how much gap was between each cylinder, it was only a few psi difference

there might be a leak right below the head where the middle exhaust manifold bolt goes? anyone ever seen that? might of been from where i removed the turbo, but i wasnt a 100% certain though

thanks!~

 

[Talondvr]

im going to do what people advise and keep stock turbo and injectors and just start putting other stuff together like the fmic, and i got the maft to run a bov and to turn the boost up more, i heard the factory ecu only allows so much before boost cut or fuel cut??

and i heard the filter breather will give an oily mess after a while, so i might do a catch can.

already did the oil change, and flushed radiator and filled with fresh coolant, its been sitting so the passenger caliper is sticking and itll be removed and cleaned and all brakes lines bled before i put the wheels tires back on also..

there might be a leak right below the head where the middle exhaust manifold bolt goes? anyone ever seen that? might of been from where i removed the turbo, but i wasn't a 100% certain though

thanks!~

MAFT at this point is useless except for venting to atmosphere which is more trouble than its worth, imo. WB A/F gauge would be a wise investment as well as a safc for fine tuning if you do go the MAFT route tho. MAFT by itself wont let you boost more. The stock bov is fine up to 12-15 psi (more if you crush it) plus many people have problems with aftermarket ones. Stock ecu will cut fuel because of fuel pump and injector duty limits (pretty sure). Catch can is a good idea, but a little oil through your intake don't hurt, mainly just dirty. Look into dual caliper brakes from a 93ish dsm. (stock upgrade, they are soooo much better!!)

The lower middle manifold bolt stud I've heard goes through a oil galley in the head. Just make sure you use thread sealant or something and it should be fine. I get oil out of the lower driver side stud?? so that might have a galley too.

 

[Sewey_GSX]

What do people usually use to cut the intercooler piping?

Use a bandsaw or a chop saw.

how good are stock fans?

They perform well enough. As long as you don't have clearance issues, then run them.

 

[josh90laser]

MAFT at this point is useless except for venting to atmosphere which is more trouble than its worth, imo. WB A/F gauge would be a wise investment as well as a safc for fine tuning if you do go the MAFT route tho. MAFT by itself wont let you boost more. The stock bov is fine up to 12-15 psi (more if you crush it) plus many people have problems with aftermarket ones. Stock ecu will cut fuel because of fuel pump and injector duty limits (pretty sure). Catch can is a good idea, but a little oil through your intake don't hurt, mainly just dirty. Look into dual caliper brakes from a 93ish dsm. (stock upgrade, they are soooo much better!!)

The lower middle manifold bolt stud I've heard goes through a oil galley in the head. Just make sure you use thread sealant or something and it should be fine. I get oil out of the lower driver side stud?? so that might have a galley too.

im just going to run the maft since i picked it up for nothing and already have it

and itll get rid of that huge stock intake now also, just wanna do as much as i can for now and get ready for other stuff down the road.. itll have to be bought eventually i guess is the theory.. idk

probably wont ever hit where i need a standalone ecu, so we will see.. safc is far down the road...

and yea, sounds like your right about that oil galley... thanks for confirming that

Use a bandsaw or a chop saw.


They perform well enough. As long as you don't have clearance issues, then run them.

thanks, just called a buddy who has a bandsaw

and ill keep the fans as long as this intercooler piping clears.




how much boost is safe on the stock 450s and 14b

 

[Talondvr]

im just going to run the maft since i picked it up for nothing and already have it

probably wont ever hit where i need a standalone ecu, so we will see.. safc is far down the road...

how much boost is safe on the stock 450s and 14b

I have a maft to but don't use it, like I said, its not worth the trouble if your running stock turbo, injectors, fuel pump. If you do use it then you will need a WB a/f and data logger (palm w/mmcd or something like it). I bought a palm on ebay for $15 and made the cable for it for less than $10 and it works good for data logging.
The maft is more so a tuning device than just a translator. Hence why I suggested safc (better tuning abilities). If you are stuck on using the maft, start with the stock maf sensor and make sure its running up to par first. Plus that will help give you an idea of the base adjustments to make to the maft once its installed.

If your pushing more than 15~ psi you will prya hit fuel cut due mainly to the 450cc injectors and fuel pump. 11-12 psi is a good number to go for on a mostly stock car.

edit: Does that timing belt really look like that or is it just the picture?? If you don't know the history get that changed even if it looks ok!

 

[kenamond]

If you cut the IC pipes, take them somewhere to have them re-beaded or you may blow couplers off.

If you do decide on a catch can for the PCV breather, do your homework. It's part of the PCV *system* and if you do it wrong, you'll have to deal with other problems such as blowing your dipstick tube out, shortening the life of your oil, etc. There's a whole load of threads on this and a lot of them have bad info. If you're not sure, leave it stock and deal with a bit of oil film in your intake.

Looks like a great deal, though! Have fun!

 

[josh90laser]

If you cut the IC pipes, take them somewhere to have them re-beaded or you may blow couplers off.

If you do decide on a catch can for the PCV breather, do your homework. It's part of the PCV *system* and if you do it wrong, you'll have to deal with other problems such as blowing your dipstick tube out, shortening the life of your oil, etc. There's a whole load of threads on this and a lot of them have bad info. If you're not sure, leave it stock and deal with a bit of oil film in your intake.

Looks like a great deal, though! Have fun!

Yea someone local had a spring like on a door to keep it shut on his dipstick and went down to hold the dipstick down... told me his flew out once and got oil everywhere..

Hows it affect the oil life?
Ill have to look into that man thanks.

 

[black91awdturbo]

Do you have the gm mass to run the maft in blow through? Also you can start and I stress start with the stock 450cc settings on the translator. go to full throttle tech's website you can down load the manuals there for it.

Also your 1g bov will hold around 17psi with out being crushed if its in good operating shape.

 

[josh90laser]

Do you have the gm mass to run the maft in blow through? Also you can start and I stress start with the stock 450cc settings on the translator. go to full throttle tech's website you can down load the manuals there for it.

Also your 1g bov will hold around 17psi with out being crushed if its in good operating shape.

Yea I got the GM maf

Not sure if the stock one is in good shape, ild imagine so..
Will the stock one bolt up to a bigger flange? Like a 2 bolt style bov flange?


When a bov gets crushed that when it breaks?

 

[black91awdturbo]

Yea I got the GM maf

Not sure if the stock one is in good shape, ild imagine so..
Will the stock one bolt up to a bigger flange? Like a 2 bolt style bov flange?


When a bov gets crushed that when it breaks?

HAHA no you crush the top gently to make it hold more boost pressure. I dont know what two bolt flange you have so I cant tell you that.

 

[josh90laser]

HAHA no you crush the top gently to make it hold more boost pressure. I dont know what two bolt flange you have so I cant tell you that.

Pm'd you back

My buddy's supra his aftermarket bov went out and his stock one started working again and now his stock one doesn't make thevsame noise anymore

Makes a quick puff noise.. and sounds ### any idea why they would go out? It's 2jz stock twins hardpiping and fmic

 

[black91awdturbo]

any thing with mechanical parts can and will fail. Springs weaken etc.

 

[kenamond]

Yea someone local had a spring like on a door to keep it shut on his dipstick and went down to hold the dipstick down... told me his flew out once and got oil everywhere..

Hows it affect the oil life?
Ill have to look into that man thanks.

Short story:
When a cylinder is in the compression stroke, the combustion chamber is under pressure and contains fuel/air mix. Some of this leaks past the rings into the crank case. This pressurizes the crank case and adds contaminants to the "atmosphere" in the crank case.

When a cylinder is in the power stroke, the combustion chamber is under much higher pressure and contains fuel/air/exhaust mix. Some of this leaks past the rings into the crank case. This also pressurizes the crank case and adds even more contaminants.

You don't want a pressurized crank case. Many of the seals weren't designed for much pressure. Your motor oil, which is exposed to that contaminated atmosphere, doesn't need exhaust and fuel dissolved in it, which will happen if you don't keep that atmosphere clean.

That's the purpose of the PCV system. It ventilates the crank case. It provides an escape path for that high pressure and it re-circulates clean air to remove the contaminants (ventilation).

The PCV system includes a breather on the side of the valve cover that runs to your intake pipe just before the turbo compressor inlet. It also includes a PCV check valve on the back-passenger-side of the valve cover that goes to the intake manifold. The check valve opens only to let things *out* of the crank case. The breather can let stuff in or out.

If the PCV valve is closed (intake manifold is under boost), then air under the valve cover can still get out via the breather line.

There are ports cast into the head and block of your motor that connect the space around your valves and the space around the crank, so air in either location is connected. So stuff in your crank case can get up under the valve cover and can go out the breather or the PCV valve. Also, a dropped zip tie can fall into your head and down into the crank case. Don't ask why, but use your imagination.

When you are idling or if you just let off the throttle, the intake manifold is at vaccuum relative to the crank case, so the PCV valve is open, and crank case air gets sucked into the crank case. It is replaced by *clean* air that gets pulled in through the breather line. This flushes the nasty gases out of the crank case through the PCV valve and into your intake manifold. That ventilates the crank case...it removes the dirty air and replaces it with clean air.

When you're under load, the intake manifold is boosted, so the PCV valve slams shut. This is because the pressure in the intake manifold is higher than in the crank case. But the blowby past your rings is still sending extra stuff into the crank case. Because there is a breather line, it has a place to escape. Without this breather, there's no place for the blow-by to go, so the crank case starts to build pressure. This is when that dipstick tube might pop out followed by oil...which makes a mess under the hood and depletes your coveted oil supply (engines really hate not having oil).

So as you drive, you gun it, let off the gas pedal to shift or dodge that guy in front of you, etc, then you gun it again, hit a red light and sit there idling, then burn off a bit of your tires when you see the green light, shift, shift, shift, etc. Each time you lift off the gas or are idling, the crank case gets ventilated. Some of the bad air gets sucked out through the PCV valve into the intake manifold and is replaced by clean air through the breather. While you're accelerating like a banshee under full boost, the PCV valve closes up tight but piston ring blow-by doesn't pressurize the case, because it goes out the breather, into the intake pipe, and is run through the motor again to be burnt/expelled. That keeps your oil clean and keeps your crank case from pressurizing (and blowing out the dip stick tube or popping a seal somewhere).

Also, the breather is after the mass airflow sensor (MAS) which is the gizmo that tells your engine computer (ECU) how much air is being sucked through the motor - which it needs to know so that it can calculate how much fuel to inject). When you are idling or shifting, any air that gets sucked in from the intake pipe, through the breather, through the valve cover, out the PCV valve, into the intake manifold, and into the combustion chamber is *metered air*. The air came from the intake pipe which is *after* the MAS, so all of the oxygen molecules that enter the combustion chamber were measured by the MAS and engine will inject the correct fuel. If you suck air through the breather from an open line hanging off the valve cover breather under the hood, that's *extra* oxygen the ECU didn't measure, so it didn't know to add a titch more fuel. So you may see issues during idle or during gear shifts related to a lean air/fuel mix if you suck unmetered air through a catch can breather setup that sucks air from the engine bay (didn't go through the MAS).

If you do something stupid with your PCV valve and line to your intake manifold, you may pressurize your crank case and pop a dipstick tube or engine seal.

If you do other stupid stuff you disable the ventilation part of PCV and your oil stinks like fuel and gets dirty faster.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes, that's the short story. I type fast.

 

[josh90laser]

Short story:
When a cylinder is in the compression stroke, the combustion chamber is under pressure and contains fuel/air mix. Some of this leaks past the rings into the crank case. This pressurizes the crank case and adds contaminants to the "atmosphere" in the crank case.

When a cylinder is in the power stroke, the combustion chamber is under much higher pressure and contains fuel/air/exhaust mix. Some of this leaks past the rings into the crank case. This also pressurizes the crank case and adds even more contaminants.

You don't want a pressurized crank case. Many of the seals weren't designed for much pressure. Your motor oil, which is exposed to that contaminated atmosphere, doesn't need exhaust and fuel dissolved in it, which will happen if you don't keep that atmosphere clean.

That's the purpose of the PCV system. It ventilates the crank case. It provides an escape path for that high pressure and it re-circulates clean air to remove the contaminants (ventilation).

The PCV system includes a breather on the side of the valve cover that runs to your intake pipe just before the turbo compressor inlet. It also includes a PCV check valve on the back-passenger-side of the valve cover that goes to the intake manifold. The check valve opens only to let things *out* of the crank case. The breather can let stuff in or out.

If the PCV valve is closed (intake manifold is under boost), then air under the valve cover can still get out via the breather line.

There are ports cast into the head and block of your motor that connect the space around your valves and the space around the crank, so air in either location is connected. So stuff in your crank case can get up under the valve cover and can go out the breather or the PCV valve. Also, a dropped zip tie can fall into your head and down into the crank case. Don't ask why, but use your imagination.

When you are idling or if you just let off the throttle, the intake manifold is at vaccuum relative to the crank case, so the PCV valve is open, and crank case air gets sucked into the crank case. It is replaced by *clean* air that gets pulled in through the breather line. This flushes the nasty gases out of the crank case through the PCV valve and into your intake manifold. That ventilates the crank case...it removes the dirty air and replaces it with clean air.

When you're under load, the intake manifold is boosted, so the PCV valve slams shut. This is because the pressure in the intake manifold is higher than in the crank case. But the blowby past your rings is still sending extra stuff into the crank case. Because there is a breather line, it has a place to escape. Without this breather, there's no place for the blow-by to go, so the crank case starts to build pressure. This is when that dipstick tube might pop out followed by oil...which makes a mess under the hood and depletes your coveted oil supply (engines really hate not having oil).

So as you drive, you gun it, let off the gas pedal to shift or dodge that guy in front of you, etc, then you gun it again, hit a red light and sit there idling, then burn off a bit of your tires when you see the green light, shift, shift, shift, etc. Each time you lift off the gas or are idling, the crank case gets ventilated. Some of the bad air gets sucked out through the PCV valve into the intake manifold and is replaced by clean air through the breather. While you're accelerating like a banshee under full boost, the PCV valve closes up tight but piston ring blow-by doesn't pressurize the case, because it goes out the breather, into the intake pipe, and is run through the motor again to be burnt/expelled. That keeps your oil clean and keeps your crank case from pressurizing (and blowing out the dip stick tube or popping a seal somewhere).

Also, the breather is after the mass airflow sensor (MAS) which is the gizmo that tells your engine computer (ECU) how much air is being sucked through the motor - which it needs to know so that it can calculate how much fuel to inject). When you are idling or shifting, any air that gets sucked in from the intake pipe, through the breather, through the valve cover, out the PCV valve, into the intake manifold, and into the combustion chamber is *metered air*. The air came from the intake pipe which is *after* the MAS, so all of the oxygen molecules that enter the combustion chamber were measured by the MAS and engine will inject the correct fuel. If you suck air through the breather from an open line hanging off the valve cover breather under the hood, that's *extra* oxygen the ECU didn't measure, so it didn't know to add a titch more fuel. So you may see issues during idle or during gear shifts related to a lean air/fuel mix if you suck unmetered air through a catch can breather setup that sucks air from the engine bay (didn't go through the MAS).

If you do something stupid with your PCV valve and line to your intake manifold, you may pressurize your crank case and pop a dipstick tube or engine seal.

If you do other stupid stuff you disable the ventilation part of PCV and your oil stinks like fuel and gets dirty faster.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes, that's the short story. I type fast.

dang man.. ill leave it alone for now i guess

catch can to come in future though

pics of the turbo i just picked up...

 

[Talondvr]

Nice Turbo!

Don't be scared of the catch can. Just make sure its a sealed can and hook it up on the breather hose between the Intake and the valve cover. Some people put a breather/fuel filter to let it vent. If you run the maft then that's a little different due to where the air is being metered, hence being able to also vent the bov to the atmosphere. I tryed it and had a terrible time adjusting airflow on the maft.

With that said, I think with the big 16g you'll need something (maft/safc) to adjust airflow. My motor is all stock except the turbo (and the rest of the intake) and I need to adjust the safc a little to get the fuel trims and wot afr right. But then again I'm not a very experienced tuner so do research and get 2nd opinions. Just don't want you blowing up your motor

 

[josh90laser]

Yea kinda scared on this whole tuning thing... think I found someone local who has a built dsm and might get some help from him.

Nice engine bay too man.

 

[josh90laser]

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Lets see how good this app is for android :O

 

[spyder1219]

I didnt see any thing ref'd to pulling the condenser out, so i will remark on that. The unit itself is close to the same size as your radiator, and sitting right in front of it and soaking all the air flow. If your a/c lines are already out, or if you plan on not doing a/c at all, just unbolt it and get it out of the way. Cool air never hurt anything under the hood. worthwhile imho if you dont use the a/c. just sayin'. Leave the a/c compressor bracket (not the pump and pulley) in tho. Your driverside axle bolt(s) go through one or two of those holes or you would have to fab a "spacer" of some type.

 

[josh90laser]

I didnt see any thing ref'd to pulling the condenser out, so i will remark on that. The unit itself is close to the same size as your radiator, and sitting right in front of it and soaking all the air flow. If your a/c lines are already out, or if you plan on not doing a/c at all, just unbolt it and get it out of the way. Cool air never hurt anything under the hood. worthwhile imho if you dont use the a/c. just sayin'. Leave the a/c compressor bracket (not the pump and pulley) in tho. Your driverside axle bolt(s) go through one or two of those holes or you would have to fab a "spacer" of some type.

well all the a/c stuff i hooked up, i know the compressor works.. havent had time to vacuum all the lines and do a leak down
ild imagine there is some humidity in the lines so ill need to suck all that out and see if itll hold a - vacuum then i might just keep a/c

and both stock fans are going to work with my fmic

 

[black91awdturbo]

Is that piping plastic or just painted hard to tell from the pics. Turbo looks good, you will like the 16g!

 

[josh90laser]

Is that piping plastic or just painted hard to tell from the pics. Turbo looks good, you will like the 16g!

Its metal or aluminum. Hard to tell from pics but it was a pain to cut


How much shaft play should it have? My 14b has none so I can't compare the 2

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Test fit, need a coupler or two more.
Bov, and hook in maf

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

If it hits the turbine housing it has way to much, in and out is also bad. Once it's on the car and has oil in it there will be less also.

Joel

 

[kenamond]

Its metal or aluminum. Hard to tell from pics but it was a pain to cut


How much shaft play should it have? My 14b has none so I can't compare the 2

Test fit, need a coupler or two more.
Bov, and hook in maf

Looks like you need something to hold those couplers on the pipes or you'll pop them off under boost. I mentioned beading the ends of the pipes which gives a place for the clamps to grab. When you get it all ready for a test drive, do a boost leak test up to 30psi and see if anything pops and then fix any leaks.

If you get a catch can, it can't have a vent on it if your PCV valve is still run to the IM. At idle you'll suck air through the vent, into the valve cover, out the PCV valve and into the IM. That will bypass your air metering system unless it's built into the intake manifold runners (which I've never seen). If you disconnect the PCV and cap it, you fix that problem but lose the ventilation of the crank case.

Lookin' good!