newb worried about taking timing belt off

[Awolagent]

1996 gs-t ~83,000 miles

So my water pump is going again, coolant coming out through the weep hole. 14,000 miles ago I had the dealer replace it, along with the timing belt, $700. I can't afford this repair every year and I need my car back fast.

So I bought the water pump and am attempting to replace it myself. I have spent probably 20 hard hours reading every guide and trying to learn what to do, but I'm new to this stuff.

What I've done so far: engine mount off, power steering, alternator, A/C...belts, pulleys, brackets, all off. Crank pulley off. Timing belt covers all off (huge pain). So now I'm ready to take the timing belt off and I'm worried about screwing it up.

All I care about is changing the water pump. I know I should change every belt, pulley, and tensioner in the area, but I don't have time to get all those parts, and I don't have the special tool needed for the timing belt tensioner.

So, question 1: If I take the timing belt off, will I be able to get it back on properly without the special tool and without switching out any parts (like the tensioner)?

question 2: Can I not fully remove the timing belt? Instead just zip tie it to the cam pulleys and crank sprocket (or at least mark it), so when I release the tension I won't have to worry about something moving and throwing the timing off. I'd like to just take off the tensioner and tensioner pulley, replace the water pump, put the tensioner and tensioner pulley back on, and be good to go. Do I absolutely need to take the timing belt all the way off to get the water pump out? I know I should, but my helper will be very impatient and won't want to wait the amount of time it will take me to make absolutely sure the timing is correct (which could be several hours). Is this possible?

I need to get this car back on the road fast...I've read every manual (factory repair, chiltons, vfaq, several others) but my lack of experience is the problem, not my access to the correct information, so links probably won't help me.

I need to be helped to understand why what I want to do is stupid, not just that it is in fact stupid, thanks.

 

[Jazz]

Take the belt off. The water pump is a pain to replace and will be worse with a belt stuck in the way. Replace what u need to, make sure everything is lined up when u put the belt back on and you'll be fine.

 

[DSM1G90]

If you're going to zip tie the belt over the cam sprockets, at least make sure that the inner marks face each other directly with the cam dowels straight up 12:00 position since that is were you begin when lacing up the belt for belt install - is over the sprockets.

Yes, make sure all the marks are aligned perfectly after the install - no "well, it looks good enough for 2nd best" - motor won't run as well, or could even have problems.

Good luck - DSM

 

[Talondvr]

I use an allen wrench against the socket for setting the tension. Then a drill bit to check the clearance of the tensioner arm. Make sure you turn the motor over 6 times and recheck. It used to take me 3+ tries to get this part right but can get it on the 1st shot now
Sounds like you got a good plan.
Your at TDC? right?

 

[Awolagent]

Your at TDC? right?

It was, now its a little off, I have to crank it around again , but it'll be there before I clip the timing belt down/release tension.

I'll consider taking the belt all the way off. Thanks for the advice so far.

 

[pauleyman]

I've done more than 100 belts easily. After more than 20 years of this I don't see why everybody gets so bent out of shape about this. The reason so many people screw it up is they don't understand relative position. Line up all the marks before you take the belt off. It's very difficult to screw stuff up from this point. If the car was running correctly before you took the belt off you don't need to do anything special. If you are or were unsure then you would need to check the phase of the rear balance shaft (assuming it still has them). This isn't hard to do and is well documented in many places and most importantly in the factory manual. There are a dozen tips and tricks to get the belt on correctly. I won't describe them here as they are well documented elsewhere.
Here is the most important point.
Once you line all the marks up you MUST rotate the engine clockwise and check the protrusion of the tensioner. It takes six full turns to line up all the marks again. The thing is few if anybody tells you why to do this. Here is why......
When you rotate the engine clockwise even just a little bit you pull the belt taught on the backside (idle side). There is no way to adjust tension on that side of the belt, there is only an idler pulley. If you tried to set tension on the belt without first removing the slack on the idle side (it only take a few teeth of movement if that to do it) then you likely will not get the protrusion of the tensioner set correctly. Here is the next catch.....
Once you have it all setup, tensioned etc etc etc you MUST MUST MUST check the protrusion of the tensioner and all the marks again and do this correctly simply rotate the engine around CW however many times it takes to get all the marks lined up. Line up the CRANK. Nothing more. It will take more than one revolution of the crank to get all the marks lined up.
ALL OF THE MARKS, CAMS, OIL PUMP FRONT BALANCE SHAFT ARE RELATIVE TO THE CRANK.
If for any reason it isn't right start over. Typically somebody didn't take the slack out of the back so when they try and set tension they go back in 15 min and it's wrong. Why? there was slack in the belt. This is also the same reason cams look half a tooth off. Its not possible to be a half tooth off, only whole teeth. If you truly are slightly off then the head and/or block have been milled which changes the distance between components.
This is what I do before I set tension.
Get the marks lined up, put the belt on and use binder clips on the cams. Turn the exhaust cam 4 or five teeth CCW (which of course turns eveything else), then turn the crank CW until all marks are lined up again. This is a quick and easy way to get the slack out of the idle side and make sure all marks line up before you set the tension. Once it's set right then and there rotate the motor around (like I said I think it's six full turns of the crank) until all the marks line up again. They should be dead on perfect. There is NO, ZERO, NONE, subjectivity in this statement. There is no way for there to be slack on the backside of the belt because you just rotated the motor over CW. That being said the marks should all line up again perfectly. Then you let it set and check the protrusion of the tensioner. It MUST be within spec. If it isn't and you run it eventually the belt will skip time. I fail to see why some people say "good enough" when the objective statements concerning doing this job are crystal clear. If for some reason you find the marks off (usually by one tooth because you missed a step etc) then get the crank lined up again and start over. Typically at this point you do not need to take the belt fully off, just loosen tension and move the belt over a tooth or so on whatever component is wrong. Remember all the components are relative to the crank.
Over the years I've got a few tricks to save time etc but what I've described will get you through. To put it perspective I took about 3 or 4 tries the first time I did it. It was clear to me what mistakes I was making because it should be obvious all the slack should be only on the front side. I had no vfaq (did not exist yet), no videos, no posts, nothing. I had a factory manual and I did not have the special tools. It can be done. I would, however, at least have the threaded rod as it makes things way easier and it's so easy to fabricate one for 10$ or less. I welcome any comments or questions. I've only been on this site for a short while and I joined for this very reason, to help newer DSMers. I'm on my 20th year of DSMs and 25th year of mitsubishis. This isn't hard. One Saturday should do it.

Just to spoon feed a little here are a few questions I get asked alot.....
If you're not using a new tensioner how do I compress it? Bench vise, c clamp etc etc. I have seen a guy jack up the car put the tensioner between the stand and car and do it that way. Dangerous to be sure. Bench vise is the preferred method.
I don't have a pin? Now what? Got a small allen wrench? Paper clip will not work. Get creative if you need to.

One last things. If you can get the tools do so. It makes the job much easier and there isn't any excuse these days. The pin tool was 60 bucks year ago, now they're cheap.

 

[dsmlover07]

Timing Belt VFAQ

This should help, also replace all timing components since youre already there, belts, tensioner, etc.

 

[RamenPride]

First time I changed the timing belt I used white out and made two marks on both cam gears and on the timing belt teeth, oil pump sprocket, balance shaft sprocket, and crank sprocket. I then transferred these to the new timing belt. A little bit of overkill, but I don't regret doing it that way.

 

[pauleyman]

First time I changed the timing belt I used white out and made two marks on both cam gears and on the timing belt teeth, oil pump sprocket, balance shaft sprocket, and crank sprocket. I then transferred these to the new timing belt. A little bit of overkill, but I don't regret doing it that way.

This is what I do now also except I use a soap stone.

 

[Awolagent]

Ok, the timing belt is off, water pump is off. Got quite a bit of coolant on the balance shaft belt, is it screwed?

I don't have the special tool but I got a new tensioner since the one I had was pretty rusty. So it's already compressed.

 

[pauleyman]

Dry the belt off. If for some reason you don't get the tension right you'll have to recompress it and put the pin back in. Compress it slowly if you have to do so.

 

[Awolagent]

Alright guys got the water pump in, timing belt back on, cover on, pulleys and belts on. Fired right up and sounds great. Thanks for all your help.

Also...I found the leaky hose that was the actual problem (still leaked the same after startup).

The one going to the oil cooler, looks like a little S. Learned a lot anyway.

 

[DSM1G90]

I had bunch of water leaks as well ... not pump related .. the little ones to the FIAV and int manifold.. changed them all out...

Now, gotta do the heater core...not getting too warm in the cabin..have to wait until I have time and warms up some since I gotta rip out the complete dash to get to it....bummer

 

[Jazz]

Glad to hear it turned out good.

 

[Awolagent]

But I didn't learn quite enough. Apparently I lost more coolant than I thought. After I had it all together I pulled it out of the garage and let it idle for a while. I went in to take a shower (20-25 minutes) and then came out to drive it around. Well I got in and started driving, saw the temp and started swearing. The temp was maxed...for how long, who knows it was only about 10 degrees out. So I shut it right down and walked to the store for more coolant. It took almost a full gallon to fill.

Now it runs, doesn't overheat, but doesn't sound that great (maybe I'm being paranoid).

I didn't see white smoke out of the exhaust...or any weird smoke really. I did have to give it gas after I added the coolant to keep it from dying. Now it starts up fine, but ticks pretty bad at times and i'm afraid to push it. No milky anything in the oil, nothing leaking from beneath the car, I can still smell antifreeze while driving sometimes. Do you think the car is ok?

 

[Dsm304]

:/ y does everyone say to take out the timing belt to change water pump???? I took out my water pump without taking off timing belt I used couplers on cams and a pointy coupler on one of the holes on the bottom toothed small pulley whatever its called and took out tensioner and all with no problems and without taking timing belt off :/ im just saying there is a way to change water pump without taking timing belt off

 

[pauleyman]

you may not have to take the belt physically off but you did have to remove tension. What difference does it make?

 

[Awolagent]

Yeah, it became clear how pointless leaving the belt on was, once you get to that point. I would like to know if you guys think the overheating cause damage or I'm just being paranoid.

 

[Dsm304]

In my opinion I would say if it was marking at max temperature it may cause damage but at the same time not I personally would like to see a video of how the car turns on and sounds when on that way we can kinda see what kinds of sound is it making or if it sounds good