420A New To DSM and Have a Few ???

[Puggy_sd455]

Hello all I just traded my 92 Civic LX for a 96 Eagle Talon Base/ESi im not completely new to DSMs iv had a 95 Neon Sport and I had to keep my buddy's 96 Eclipse GS on the road for him witch was no easy task... iv already done alot of clean up work on the car sens the last few owners did not take very good care of it and did not know what thay were doing... But basically the car runs and drives pretty good...

But I guess the first question is how much boost/HP can a stock 420A bottom end hold I got a good deal on a STAR stage-2 turbo manifold and iv started buying up parts to turbo it I picked up a wastegate with a 4psi spring I fig that would be a good low starting psi to get thangs moving along but id really like to know just how much psi on a T3 or a T3/T4 it can hold???

Iv asked around and watched a few dozen vids on Youtube and it seems to be hit or miss some people are running up to 250HP on stock blocks, and others say there is no way ### thares went boom??? Im a big Honda guy and from what iv seen the rods are about the same size as a B18's rods and people run 250HP safely all the time threw thim so whats the problem???

Ill have more questions as I go im sheer but thats the big one for just this sec

 

[1990dsmkid]

On a stock 420a with boost, no more than 8psi and you should be fine.....much more and your gunna need new internals

 

[laser_92]

I've done 10lbs on a 100% stock motor, but that was from a rather small audi turbo. Not much CFM from that little guy. Motor lasted 2yrs of CONSTANT beating, and track nights with plenty of hot laps. Finally blew it after getting greedy and turning it up a little too much (14lbs) lasted that one weekend. play it safe keep it at 10 psi or less.

 

[turbotom]

Swap a SRT4 engine in it and have all the boost you want,. Hum.. I'm not a huge fan of 420s but to be on the same side, I would run no more than 8 psi like (1990dsmkid) member mention. See 4g63ts engine, have lower compression and also oil squirters to cool the rods/pistons from over heating from higher boost. If you want to boost it safely forged rods and pistons will help big time. Even with hondas, no matter what engine is boosted on a honda, high boost on stock internals will blow up, you know I'm sure you see it. I know I have as well because I have honda friends that show me carnage after "BOOM" engines,. Not saying that you can't do anything with 420as but if you want good results, build the engine with at least rods/pistons and you should be good to run up to 20psi on good tune.

 

[gusu]

Typically 8 psi is safe and on some engines 10 psi could be pushing it. Almost no one respectable will recommend more than 10 psi at all.

The SRT4 engine has never been completed as far as I know. It's too tall and they had to lower the mounts and it still stuck over the hood if I remember correctly.

Asking how much HP it will hold? you are definitely from the Honda world.
There is no "typical" horse power range to be made on a stock bottom end.

 

[DSM1G90]

The SRT 2.4 was Dodge's answer to the 4G64 block, but only with DOHC.

It's really a 420A with a bit taller block so the stroke can be longer, due to a long stroke crank, for rally usage (more bottom end torque) and not for drag as the 4G63 is designed to be.

But the turbo setup for a 'Skittle' motor is horrendous, even to look at. With the EXH at the back of the motor, the turbo is specially designed to fit the EXH manifold for this motor only and nothing else-a proprietory turbo build by Mitsu and spins opposite direction of what other turbos do.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

Thanks for the info guys ill put it to good use

a few more ???

1. If I run stock 95-99 440cc GST/GSX fuel injectors to feed the turbo will I need to run a resistor box for the injectors??? in some of the vids I watched some people were using them but I cant really find much more than that

2. Im not going to get the ECU tuned right away but I know that I will need to get it done is thare any preferred tuning programs that I should look into???

3. What kind of gap will I need to set my spark plugs to get a good fire on a turbo motor???

4. Sins im going to be running low boost will the stock fuel pump be OK for now???

 

[ed1380]

Swap a SRT4 engine in it and have all the boost you want,. Hum.. I'm not a huge fan of 420s but to be on the same side, I would run no more than 8 psi like (1990dsmkid) member mention. See 4g63ts engine, have lower compression and also oil squirters to cool the rods/pistons from over heating from higher boost. If you want to boost it safely forged rods and pistons will help big time. Even with hondas, no matter what engine is boosted on a honda, high boost on stock internals will blow up, you know I'm sure you see it. I know I have as well because I have honda friends that show me carnage after "BOOM" engines,. Not saying that you can't do anything with 420as but if you want good results, build the engine with at least rods/pistons and you should be good to run up to 20psi on good tune.

why not evo 8 drivetrain?

 

[1990dsmkid]

yes you will need the resistor box for any dsm injectors you run. There is megasquirt for a tuning solution that alot off people run with the boosted 420as from my understanding or you could always get and use an AFC

 

[mchustle]

All these questions have been answered so many times on here, if you search you will find all the info you could ever need. If your going to do a full on build tune with MS if its just a boost it till it blows, then just use a fmu or portfueler.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

why not evo 8 drivetrain?

Basically im not a DSM guy and im not really looking to put a lot of money in the car just having some fun with it with out getting to heavy into it that said I like the car and plan on having it for some time...

 

[StarFawkes]

im not really looking to put a lot of money in the car

Do your maintenance. Keep it stock.

 

[NWHTanK]

Typically 8 psi is safe and on some engines 10 psi could be pushing it. Almost no one respectable will recommend more than 10 psi at all.

The SRT4 engine has never been completed as far as I know. It's too tall and they had to lower the mounts and it still stuck over the hood if I remember correctly.

Asking how much HP it will hold? you are definitely from the Honda world.
There is no "typical" horse power range to be made on a stock bottom end.

Ah wrong. It fits fine under the Hood while keeping the axels in line.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

Do your maintenance. Keep it stock.

Already gave her a full tune up well every thing but new spark plug wires but I love working on cars and hot roding/tuning in my spare time dont matter if it was a Geo id still be tweeking it

Heres a few pics from some older cars

 

[91tsi_awd]

I would sell the 420a and pick up a 4g63t. They have much more potential, and the stock bottom end is good up to around 600hp.

 

[2gGst98]

+100 to that,

sell it get a 4g63 gst for about 2k-3k and run 14psi with a 14b get cat back and enjoy 200hp roughly.

I understand that you are comming from a honda world, but you have to change your thought process . I am not trying to put you down man just saying it like it is. I came from hondas anout 5 years ago.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

+100 to that,

sell it get a 4g63 gst for about 2k-3k and run 14psi with a 14b get cat back and enjoy 200hp roughly.

I understand that you are comming from a honda world, but you have to change your thought process . I am not trying to put you down man just saying it like it is. I came from hondas anout 5 years ago.

Ya I understand im just more of a Honda guy than DSM in truth ill tune any thing on 4 wheels and normally only ever keep a car for a few months at most im only 25 and this Talon is the 40th car iv owned so far iv had alittle be of every thing Firebirds, Camaros, Civics, Integras, Escorts, Neons iv even had a Porsche 924 once the problem with this is very very few cars ever get close to getting done so im not looking to spent a lot on the car ### simply put I mite have it for 2 weeks or 2 years... I just wont to put a cheap little turbo on the car ### iv never got to do it on any other car and in truth iv always been alittle intimidated by aftermarket turbo kits but back in April I picked up a 89 Probe GT Turbo and had to completely rebuild the turbo system along with most of the top end so I think im ready to try to put together a turbo...

And if it works out ill look into picking up a clean 1g or something like that...

 

[91tsi_awd]

Ya I understand im just more of a Honda guy than DSM in truth ill tune any thing on 4 wheels and normally only ever keep a car for a few months at most im only 25 and this Talon is the 40th car iv owned so far iv had alittle be of every thing Firebirds, Camaros, Civics, Integras, Escorts, Neons iv even had a Porsche 924 once the problem with this is very very few cars ever get close to getting done so im not looking to spent a lot on the car ### simply put I mite have it for 2 weeks or 2 years... I just wont to put a cheap little turbo on the car ### iv never got to do it on any other car and in truth iv always been alittle intimidated by aftermarket turbo kits but back in April I picked up a 89 Probe GT Turbo and had to completely rebuild the turbo system along with most of the top end so I think im ready to try to put together a turbo...

And if it works out ill look into picking up a clean 1g or something like that...

I get where your coming from, and if you just want the experience of turboing a n/t car then id go for it. But Honestly to turbo a 420a your going to be spending alot more for a lot less. If u look at the majority of the 420a turbo threads on here you will see people spending any where from $2000 to upwards of $5000 for around 250hp out of a 420a. You would be able to get a decent 4g63t for around $2500... and with a few bolt-ons the 14b can reach 300hp.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

Ya something like that I got to drive like 60 miles a day to and from my job so the truth is im really gunning for 180-200hp with my crappy little setup that way I still get fare MPG and there's not to much stress on the motor... If I had the cash id pick up a 1g Talon or laser you can find them fairly cheap around here and I like the early ones with the pop up headlights

 

[91tsi_awd]

Ya something like that I got to drive like 60 miles a day to and from my job so the truth is im really gunning for 180-200hp with my crappy little setup that way I still get fare MPG and there's not to much stress on the motor... If I had the cash id pick up a 1g Talon or laser you can find them fairly cheap around here and I like the early ones with the pop up headlights

Good luck man. You going to do a build thread?

 

[Puggy_sd455]

Good luck man. You going to do a build thread?

Ya I normally do on what ever forum im on when I put I car together


I got another ??? remember im putting this thing together on the cheap what kind of FPR should I run and can I get away with a eBay FPR

 

[mikemustbebored]

Sounds like your mind is set so there's likely no use in trying to convince you otherwise... That being said, I must point out that your reference to the similarities between the 420a & a honda b18 is well... Simply take a look at the process involved in going turbo on a n/a 4g63. Hopefully this ain't your dd

 

[Puggy_sd455]

Sounds like your mind is set so there's likely no use in trying to convince you otherwise... That being said, I must point out that your reference to the similarities between the 420a & a honda b18 is well... Simply take a look at the process involved in going turbo on a n/a 4g63. Hopefully this ain't your dd

yup and its my DD or was before I started having problems with the charging system im driving my moms Saturn right now plus the car was droped 2" and we just got 9" of snow so it don't really matter if it takes me some time to put it all together the cars not going any were just something I wont to do

 

[91tsi_awd]

Ya I normally do on what ever forum im on when I put I car together


I got another ??? remember im putting this thing together on the cheap what kind of FPR should I run and can I get away with a eBay FPR

I would steer away from ebay for something as crucial as an afpr. I would look in the classifieds for a used fuel lab or aeromotive.

 

[Puggy_sd455]

I would steer away from ebay for something as crucial as an afpr. I would look in the classifieds for a used fuel lab or aeromotive.

Thanks ill keep that in mind