new FMIC GM MAF and TIAL, need help

[turbosax2]

You're closest to 1200hz at 4921 rpm. I would leave the 1200hz slider alone. Your math is correct for the 800hz slider - move it up 8. You can get "rich knock" but since you don't have a wideband we don't know your afr. Next time do the pull just in 3rd gear. Start at 1500 rpm in 3rd and pull to redline.

 

[Atuca]

There are 0 views on my newest log, you guys looking at the same log I am?

See my log posted in my last post.

 

[turbosax2]

That's the one I was looking at

first to thrid 06182008-1.dat

 

[1992awdlaser]

I was looking at the one in post #24.

 

[Atuca]

at 14.36 is when the RPMS first reach 5k, and the MAFraw is already at 1331. Why are you guys suggesting I leave the 1200 alone and mess with the 800? at the same point in time 14.36 the boost est and greddyboost at within .2 psi of each other, isn't that pretty damn close?

you guys both think after looking at that log that I should move my 800 htz up +8% yet leave the 1200 alone?

i would be at

18% 50 htz

-5% 150 htz

0% 250 htz

0% 400 htz

8% 800 htz

0% 1200 htz



that is what you guys are saying here? that doesn't appear to be a smooth curve with adjustments. What would you guys adjust at each air flow level (assuming I have the idle ones set.

I am guessing leave 250 at 0 according to a log I made for that speed htz, than 400 at 4%, 800 htz at 8% and than leave 1200 at 0%?

am I understanding you guys correctly? If so than I guess I understand, a bit. I wouldn't go help other people myself yet though, doesn't make THAT much sense to me. Everytime I think I understand something..

 

[1992awdlaser]

Ok, here we go.

Your 1200hz slider is very close, hence why we are saying to leave it alone. The airflow readings will vary by 1 or 2 percent during runs.

The 800hz slider is exactly what it seems. Needs to be moved up 8%.

Making the airflow adjustments even across the board is if you don't have a map sensor. That should get it close. You have a map sensor so you don't have to guess about the adjustments. The only accurate way to do it without a map sensor would be to lower boost to wastegate pressure and adjust the slider for whatever mafraw you are reading at 100%ve. Then raise the boost until you are reading for the next slider and adjust. Keep doing this until you are at the boost you want to run. Most people don't want to do this so they estimate the adjustments based on how much they adjusted the slider in the 100%ve area.

 

[Atuca]

so how would you estimate where to put the 400?

4%?

 

[1992awdlaser]

You are going to want to base the 400hz slider off of your ltft mid and stft. This is since this is an airflow that you will likely be flowing during cruise. Your getting the hang of it though.

 

[Atuca]

I tihnk I found out why my fuel trims are off, and why my car sounded like it was open down pipe while driving

I'll get my other stock exhaust manifold on there and hopefully after a day or so my fuel trims clean up.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[T9S1i]

oh wow!!! you are going to have to start all over once you fix that! but at least it will be correct and stay correct

 

[Atuca]

50 htz -4% from where it is now.

150 htz -3% from where it is now.

at 20.49 in the third gear pull log, MAFraw is at 1600 htz, so

((13.6 + 14.7) / (16.5 + 14.7)) - 1 = 28.3 / 31.2 - 1 = -.09

1600 htz -9% from where it is now.



Looking at this trend I think I am going to -4% all the sliders I adjusted before i calibrated with the cracked exhaust manifold. Although with my newest run, I am running 13lbs of boost now and my MAFraw is reading 1600 instead of 1200 like my last pull? Not sure how that happened, but cool.

I took out the washers in my BOV and now it doesn't flutter but sounds like it dumps air all at once now. I hope the fluttering i heard before wasnt compressor surge and was just the fluttering of the opening and closing of the BOV with stiffer spring.

based on my newest logs, would you guys say just drive around a few days and let my fuel trims stabalize, or should I go ahead and take the air away now? I didn't adjust air at all after or before any of these logs, so waiting on what you guys say first.

 

[turbosax2]

Turn the boost all the way down. Since your exhaust mani was cracked you had an exhaust leak which means that all the potential exhaust gas you had wasn't making it to the turbo. Now that it is, your boost has gone up a little. Your IDC is now over 100% (BAD!) so turn that boost all the way down until you get bigger injectors.

I wouldn't worry too much about the bov flutter before. The sound you're hearing from it now is normal.

I like your idea for pulling -5 from the 50 and 150hz sliders. You need to bump the 400hz slider up, 800hz slider down, and the 1200hz slider down. Your equation is right - use it for those three sliders, then blend the 2000 and 2400hz sliders in. Go ahead and change the settings now, but always keep an eye on them in future logs, and still revisit them in a few days.

I think you're getting the hang of it now

 

[Atuca]

So even if my boost is 10 lbs or 30 lbs, the air flow is calibrated the same?

If that is the case, why isn't there just a default number sceme everyone uses to calibrate their GM mafs? Or is every GM maf different? Looking at my fuel trims when I idle and such, do you think those will turn into 0s after a day or does it take longer than that to get set? I mean, if this is really it, just turning the boost down a little and I am done, I am gonna buy injectors just because I am bored.

I think I am kinda getting the hang of tuning, and it is kinda fun ^_^b Question though: If I order the FIC 1150s I just enter their deadtime and global down according to DSMlink website, and is that it? or do I need to calibrate all over again? And once that is done, assuming my ETS FMIC really does keep knock a thing of the past, do I just start turning up the boost, until I knock as long as injectors are not >90%? With the 1150's would I start my boost at 18lbs and start from there? I know I am getting ahead of myself a bit, but I am sure it will take a good week of going back and forth with you guys before I have a good understanding of it.

I havn't done any timing/fuel/boost tuning during WOT, and I am not sure when to pick timing up, fuel down, boost up, ect. I think all the tuning guides out there kind of just assume you know the basics, and I don't really. I swear though once I feel comfortable enough with it myself, I am going to be doing a step by step guide from double clicking the DSMlink Icon on your desktop to telling them to walk outside and turn their boost up .5 lbs

I would love a walk through like that .

 

[turbosax2]

No matter what your boost level, the same process is used to calibrate the airflow sliders. Since you have a sensor for actual boost, there is no guessing about it. Every GM maf is different, hence every tune is different. The fuel trims will never be perfectly at 0 - getting them to +-5 is acceptable. They may or may not change within the next few days. Just keep checking them, it only takes a few minutes.

With the new injectors the airflow sliders may be affected, but it won't be too bad since you have the sliders set pretty good now. Don't be under the impression that since you have a good intercooler knock is a thing of the past. Knock depends on a lot more than the fmic you have, so don't get too cocky with your tune.

The global and deadtime settings in the manual are a good start but they aren't perfect for everyone. Ex: take a look at the log I posted again and you'll notice the settings don't match the ones in the manual for FIC 1150's. My brother was seeing AirFlowPerRev's upwards of .32 so we had to adjust the injector settings to lower that down to .28. Because we adjusted the injector settings, then the 50hz slider had to be readjusted. It's a constant game of cross checking everything at once while you're tuning.

Once you put in the 1150's, I wouldn't just crank the boost up to 18psi. Start a little lower and practice tuning, get a good tune, then up the boost and retune again. It's not like you start from scratch again when you turn the boost up, you just have to fine tune the settings.

Read every tuning guide you see and then read it again. All the info is out there already. I didn't fully grasp all the concepts until I actually started tuning.

First and foremost, you need to calibrate your maf at idle, rev, cruise, then wot. You have a good handle on this now so I don't need to say too much about it. Once you have the airflow sliders dialed in do a wot pull. Now it's time to dial in the fuel sliders to achieve the proper afr (you need a wideband for this!) You need to choose your target afr before you start tuning. I can't tell you what to do here as it's your car, but on my bro's car we are aiming for ~11:1 or 11.1:1. After researching I have found this is a relatively conservative afr suitable for a car that I'm not necessarily trying to make maximum hp from, but rather make a good deal of hp from and keep the car safe. If you're more daring you can lean it out even more but be careful. Keep doing wot pulls until you have the correct afr while at maximum boost. I'm not sure what the ideal afr is before maximum boost though, I suspect it's ok to lean it out a little more before you reach max boost and gradually transition from 14.7 to your target afr. All the time while you're tuning the afr, keep an eye on the airflow sliders and readjust as needed. They shouldn't need to be adjusted much since you already have them dialed in. If you knock at any point while tuning the afr, take timing out.
Add fuel / pull timing = eliminates knock
Pull fuel / add timing = induces knock
The first priority is to get the proper afr, not run higher timing. Once you get the afr down, then go back and add timing until you knock, then back off the timing a notch so you don't have any knock. This is another debatable subject - tune for no knock or some knock is ok? I will be tuning for no knock because we are building his car as a road racing car, not a drag racing car, but again the choice is up to you. Always keep checking the airflow curves and afr while tuning. Then, turn up the boost and fine tune again in the same order. I believe you are on stock rebuild engine so be careful about how far you turn the boost up. Once again, personal preference and people have pushed the limits very far, but my brother is going to place a boost limit of about 22psi on his small 16g and stock engine. Hope that helped!

 

[Atuca]

Alright, everywhere I read it says "pick a target afr" and "pick a boost level"

I don't know what to pick. I don't know what a good afr is. I know that if it is too lean, the car blows up, but I don't know what level that is. Is having less fuel, higher afr, mean that you have more fuel to add at a higher boost level? That all I can assume, please correct me if I am wrong.

And than as for picking what order I do things. Is it better to have higher boost or higher timing. Do I want to run 22 lbs of boost at +1% across the board on timing, (for example) or do I want to run 20 lbs of boost and +7% timing across the board?

What is better, and how do you decide.

 

[turbosax2]

Like I said before, 11:1 is a good, safe afr. Since you don't know what else to use, just shoot for that for now. I found this number by searching and seeing people's opinions. I think 20-22 psi is a good level for the stock engine. Again, I found this by searching and people's opinions. Sure you can run it higher, but then you may be asking for trouble. Running a leaner afr means just that. You're running your engine at X ratio of air to fuel. I'm not sure what you mean by "you have more fuel to add at a higher boost level". The way I tune, timing comes last. First priority is afr, then boost, then timing.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Alright, everywhere I read it says "pick a target afr" and "pick a boost level"

I don't know what to pick. I don't know what a good afr is. I know that if it is too lean, the car blows up, but I don't know what level that is. Is having less fuel, higher afr, mean that you have more fuel to add at a higher boost level? That all I can assume, please correct me if I am wrong.

And than as for picking what order I do things. Is it better to have higher boost or higher timing. Do I want to run 22 lbs of boost at +1% across the board on timing, (for example) or do I want to run 20 lbs of boost and +7% timing across the board?

What is better, and how do you decide.

I go for 10.8:1-11.0:1 on pump gas. On race gas I go for 11.8:1-12.0:1.

I run 28psi on the stock block. But, I would get used to tuning and with the car all around before you do this.

Some cars like more boost and lower timing. Some cars like more timing and lower boost. Either way will work. But if you want it to be as fat as possible you will have to try both ways to see which one your car likes.

Edit: Damn you turbosax and your fast fingers.

 

[Atuca]

Wondering why you would ever want to run lean at all what is the advatage does that yield. I am thinking if you run more lean, your injecter duty cycle is lower, allowing you to have more fuel to tune with.

that is what I mean. Am i right?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Wondering why you would ever want to run lean at all what is the advatage does that yield. I am thinking if you run more lean, your injecter duty cycle is lower, allowing you to have more fuel to tune with.

that is what I mean. Am i right?

Running leaner can add more power. It also makes it easier to have knock or melt thigs though. Adding timing will give you more power than running a lean mixtur. Yes, running lean will bring the idc's down since you are not adding as much fuel. It doesn't allow you to have more fuel to tune with though. Don't run a lean mixture just to try and get your idc's down.

 

[Atuca]

Well I don't understand wtf is up with my coolant temps, and I am not sure how to get them lower even with the fans turned on, maybe a better coolant water mixure? I uno.

Anyways, after adjusting all my air flow sliders to what we calculated, it looks worse than before!

Is this because my coolant temps were too high? That explains the knock right? It is f*ckin hot though, sheesh!

and btw, still trying to get my boost dialed in. I think 12 would be a good number, but MBC = takes a few times to adjust

 

[turbosax2]

Even when you do the calculations right the changes won't make it perfect. Just keep adjusting the airflow sliders until you get them right. Tuning takes time and patience, at least for us new to it.

Your coolant temps are really high...that 4" core is kicking your butt. Did you take any logs before the fmic was installed? How much did the fmic affect your coolant temps? Time to start thinking of a coolant flush (70/30 mix and a bottle of redline water wetter), removing a/c, ducting to radiator, hood vent, bumper vents, etc.

I'm not exactly sure why you have so much knock. Hopefully 1992awdlaser can help you out with that.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Well I don't understand wtf is up with my coolant temps, and I am not sure how to get them lower even with the fans turned on, maybe a better coolant water mixure? I uno.

Anyways, after adjusting all my air flow sliders to what we calculated, it looks worse than before!

Is this because my coolant temps were too high? That explains the knock right? It is f*ckin hot though, sheesh!

and btw, still trying to get my boost dialed in. I think 12 would be a good number, but MBC = takes a few times to adjust

Your coolant temps shouldn't cause knock. It will make the ecu pull timing.

I'm thinking the kncok might be from the timing. With the boost you are at the ecu is targeting:

12* at 5,000
16* at 5,500
19* at 6,000


Big jumps in timing from one slider to the other can cause knock, especially if it is at 100%ve. I would bring the 5,500 slider down 2* and the 6,000 rpm slider down 2* and see what happens.

 

[Atuca]

It wasn't knocking at all before, so i think if I put my boost back down to 12.5 lbs or so, my injectors can handle it and my car will feel better and hate me less.

As far as getting hood vents, uhh.. I wanted to get a carbon fiber stock hood, but with vents it starts to get tricky. Like everyone else, I am in agreement the vader good looks the sexiest and is probably the only vented hood I would wanna wear. Uhh... The radiator may just like me flushing it out, I only refil the overflow with water, so I suppose over time it doesn't have much coolant left in there, I'll swap that out and see waht it does for me.

Lower boost though, adjust the airflow a degree at a time, and hopefully I will be all good til I get injectors. To keep the 16g or not.. Still gotta figure that one out, the gt30r or 35r.. mmhhmmm but 16g hits so hard.. uhh.. how do you guys ever figure everything out? >.<

 

[turbosax2]

Don't get rid of the 16g yet. You haven't even scratched the surface of what it's capable of!

 

[Atuca]

Well I just mean trying to decide on the 16g now because it means new exhaust manifold, injector selection, and 255fp and afpr.

I have a 190 brand new right now, don't know if i want to install it or sell it in new condition.

the 16g is capable of what, 350whp with meth? Alot of cars made today stock are in the 250 range, and some sports cars being closer to 300. I want to shoot for like 400-450 to give myself a barrior of some sort, if that makes sense, I don't wanna barely pass a car when merging on the freeway, I want to make sure I get in front.

And when I get to the track, I would love to break into the 10s. Just so for the term 10 second car is what I can say about mine. I am AWD, shouldn't be too much more work, just more $$

But I agree, keeping the 16g til i get to that 350awhp mark would be my goal at the very least. It just seems hard with the 91 available out here and the meth being required; I really rather not use meth, just out of laziness.