Need comments on Stage 1 Modifications

[Bladeliger]

Hi Guys,

Need your comments on these mods. on a 1g GSR 4 (GSX)

I have read your stage 1 mods and based this on that with some variation.

1.)K and N Air filter.

2.) 3" Turbo back Exhaust w/out Cat

3.) Evo3 O2 sensor housing.

4.) 2-1/2" SS tubing for side mount intercooler up to throttle valve.

5.) boost controller - 15 to 16 psi boost stock 14B turbo.

6.) cobra caliper brakes upgrade

7.) 1set PU suspension bushings and engine mounts.

8.) Mishimoto Radiator.

9.) stock fuel pump rewire.

Wish list.

1.) 2g exhaust manifold

what gains do I expect with these items?

Crank Hp =?
Wheel Hp =?

Thank you.

 

[bryanwheat]

I've never heard it called stages like that. I call it supporting mods for what power goal you are after. I would port the turbine housing, manifold and o2 housing. For that turbo there is really no need for anything bigger. I would consider a small front mount intercooler also. The stock side mount is easily heat soaked by the 14b at 15 psi. Mount inserts or fill yours with window weld. The exhaust you have right, i'd go with 3 inch. Also you should look into a walbro 190 pump and the rewire. If you want to safely run more boost than 16-18 than it would be a good idea to go with some bigger injectors and at least an safc, or even better dsmlink. You should also consider an aftermarket clutch at this point also because the stock one is going to be slipping. Before doing any of this make sure that the engine has all the maintenance stuff done, (t belt, bs belt tensioner, pulleys, wp, pcv, and fresh fluids). Also would be a good idea to go thru and fix any oil leaks and anything else that could cause you a problem in the future.

Also there is no need to replace the radiator if yours is in good condition. The stock radiator is all you need for 90 percent of setups. Properly tuned with a little bigger injectors i'd say that you could have a pretty solid 300 whp setup with the 14b.

 

[rmarti83]

I've never heard it called stages like that. I call it supporting mods for what power goal you are after. I would port the turbine housing, manifold and o2 housing. For that turbo there is really no need for anything bigger. I would consider a small front mount intercooler also. The stock side mount is easily heat soaked by the 14b at 15 psi. Mount inserts or fill yours with window weld. The exhaust you have right, i'd go with 3 inch. Also you should look into a walbro 190 pump and the rewire. If you want to safely run more boost than 16-18 than it would be a good idea to go with some bigger injectors and at least an safc, or even better dsmlink. You should also consider an aftermarket clutch at this point also because the stock one is going to be slipping. Before doing any of this make sure that the engine has all the maintenance stuff done, (t belt, bs belt tensioner, pulleys, wp, pcv, and fresh fluids). Also would be a good idea to go thru and fix any oil leaks and anything else that could cause you a problem in the future.

Also there is no need to replace the radiator if yours is in good condition. The stock radiator is all you need for 90 percent of setups. Properly tuned with a little bigger injectors i'd say that you could have a pretty solid 300 whp setup with the 14b.

I agree with Bryan here I would also look into getting a 2G MAF also if your looking for 300 WHP your on the right track save up for DSM Link and injectors 550's or just a little bigger and a rewire 190 LPO and you sould be good til you get the itch to go even faster

 

[Bladeliger]

I've never heard it called stages like that. I call it supporting mods for what power goal you are after. I would port the turbine housing, manifold and o2 housing. For that turbo there is really no need for anything bigger. I would consider a small front mount intercooler also. The stock side mount is easily heat soaked by the 14b at 15 psi. Mount inserts or fill yours with window weld. The exhaust you have right, i'd go with 3 inch. Also you should look into a walbro 190 pump and the rewire. If you want to safely run more boost than 16-18 than it would be a good idea to go with some bigger injectors and at least an safc, or even better dsmlink. You should also consider an aftermarket clutch at this point also because the stock one is going to be slipping. Before doing any of this make sure that the engine has all the maintenance stuff done, (t belt, bs belt tensioner, pulleys, wp, pcv, and fresh fluids). Also would be a good idea to go thru and fix any oil leaks and anything else that could cause you a problem in the future.

Also there is no need to replace the radiator if yours is in good condition. The stock radiator is all you need for 90 percent of setups. Properly tuned with a little bigger injectors i'd say that you could have a pretty solid 300 whp setup with the 14b.

Thank you for the inputs.

Yes, as of now my car is in our shop. my head gasket had a leak and have it replaced and also checked the piston clearances and replaced the rings along with the things in the connecting rods. And the fluids will also be changed.

It is the Stage "1" in this forum's tech guide for basic 4g63t HP upgrade path.

Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades: Stage 1 Power - DSMtuners

Well honestly, this will be the final mods I will do and I don't want to complicate with the afc's and afm fuel regulators and larger injectors to also save money.

My goals are moderate maybe 275-300 crank HP. I'm in the Philippines and there are not many roads here to enjoy so much HP.

most of the list from 1 to 9 I have done except the SS tubing for the intercooler/throttle body.

I'm thinking of the front mount intercooler and the 190 fuel pump.

I will not be boosting over 16 psi may be 15 psi is the highest will the stock ecu, 450cc injectors and a rewired stock fuel pump hold this?

Thank you.

 

[bastarddsm]

It's gonna be tough to get 275-300 from that setup at 15psi. What is your r+m/2 octane over there?

If your not wanting to play with an afc or bigger injectors, I'd reccomend hacking the 1g maf, running a walbro 190, and turning the boost up to about 17-18psi. 450cc injectors are good for almost 300hp. I ran my car in that fashion for a while and it ran great.

The only issue is your going to up against fuel cut. Watch a logger as your turning up boost making sure your idc's don't get to far past 80%, your o2 voltage stays over .80v, and you don't get more than a few counts of knock.

Allthough, if you have an eprom ecu it is cheap an super easy to have much better setup.
pm me for info.

As long as your not launching the balls off it, the stock clutch should be fine at this level.

 

[Bladeliger]

It's gonna be tough to get 275-300 from that setup at 15psi. What is your r+m/2 octane over there?

If your not wanting to play with an afc or bigger injectors, I'd reccomend hacking the 1g maf, running a walbro 190, and turning the boost up to about 17-18psi. 450cc injectors are good for almost 300hp. I ran my car in that fashion for a while and it ran great.

The only issue is your going to up against fuel cut. Watch a logger as your turning up boost making sure your idc's don't get to far past 80%, your o2 voltage stays over .80v, and you don't get more than a few counts of knock.

Allthough, if you have an eprom ecu it is cheap an super easy to have much better setup.
pm me for info.

As long as your not launching the balls off it, the stock clutch should be fine at this level.

Thank you.

Octane from the pump says:

93 for the cheapest

95 next to 93.

then 99-100 the most expensive.

I mean only crank HP not wheel HP

I'm only using the stock 14b so i will be boosting 15 to 16 psi max.

do I need to upgrade the stock intercooler or just the piping?

if I'm going use 550cc injectors do i need an afc?

Yes I plan to upgrade the fuel pump.

 

[bryTSi]

Wow, I'd run the 99 if I were you! That's probably higher octane than some E-85 that is sold...

 

[ILL122]

At 15-16 psi it wouldnt hurt to do a frontmount. VRSF just announced a group buy. This is a very practical setup for your "stage 1" goals.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...2g-fmic-group-buy-fall-sale-extravaganza.html

 

[bastarddsm]

Thank you.

Octane from the pump says:

93 for the cheapest

95 next to 93.

then 99-100 the most expensive.

I mean only crank HP not wheel HP

I'm only using the stock 14b so i will be boosting 15 to 16 psi max.

do I need to upgrade the stock intercooler or just the piping?

if I'm going use 550cc injectors do i need an afc?

Yes I plan to upgrade the fuel pump.

at 15 or 16psi, hack the maf, put in a walbro 190. Hacking the maf will lean out the afr's just a touch, that will help the car make more power per psi. It does this by reporting slightly less air than the motor is actually ingesting. Another pleasing side affect is that it will delay the onset of fuel cut.

Yes you would need an afc or some other electronic tuning device if your are going to run 550's. I advise against that, they are simply not needed at this level. Put your money towards a better intercooler.

It would be best to upgrade to a nice fmic, but if you have a/c it can bring overheating problems, this route will net the most gains, allthough the gains maybe minimal over a good smic, it will also cost the most, and involve the most modifications to your car.

An upgraded smic might be a better choice for a street car on this level, somthing like the old school supra smic would be more than adequate for your level, and very affordable.

If you don't have the buget for a upgraded smic, A hard uicp is a good mod that will help the overall system flow, and it would be useable if you later got a better smic.

Wow, I'd run the 99 if I were you! That's probably higher octane than some E-85 that is sold...

Ehh, his 100 is like getting 95 here. Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's still a little better tho.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I dont see a wideband or a tuning a device a logger would be a great asset or dsmlink, to add to your, build.

 

[bastarddsm]

I dont see a wideband or a tuning a device a logger would be a great asset or dsmlink, to add to your, build.

Have you even read the posts? What does he need link for? That is definitely a luxury at that level. Again a wideband is also not a necessity at this level. The only thing he really needs is a logger, and thats arguable.

Hes not going very far out of the stock realm, a hacked maf changes the high flow readings by about 10%, that will lean the car out on the big end by about 1 afr point. That puts him in the high 10's-11 afr's, and thats about perfect for a pump gas deal. The solid 25lbs/min he's gonna flow at 16psi are not even going to come close to maxing out the 450's. He might see som 90% idc's, but thats still well within the linear range.


Maybe you weren't around for the old days when all we had was a pocket logger and some ingenuity. Realistically, there are probably more 15psi, 14b, hacked maf, stock injector, pocket logger setups out there, than copies of ecmlink sold.

 

[bryanwheat]

Using logger to monitor o2 voltage is pretty weak. I've done it many many times, a wideband is the only CORRECT way to know exactly where you are at.

 

[bastarddsm]

Using logger to monitor o2 voltage is pretty weak. I've done it many many times, a wideband is the only CORRECT way to know exactly where you are at.

Who cares if it's the only correct way to monitor your afr's, if you don't have a way to change them.

Tell the hundreds of people that went fast back in the day with no problems that they have to have a wideband to know whats going on.

A good tuner could look at a set of plugs and know more about whats going on in the engine than an most people with the best diagnostic equipment available.

 

[beendenied]

When I swap my motor sometime this week, I'll have an extra freakin 2g mani you can have for dirt ;-)

Though not entirely sure on how much shipping will be that far hehe

 

[Slow91Laser]

Wow, I'd run the 99 if I were you! That's probably higher octane than some E-85 that is sold...

FYI: E-85 is 105 octane......

 

[bryanwheat]

Who cares if it's the only correct way to monitor your afr's, if you don't have a way to change them.

Tell the hundreds of people that went fast back in the day with no problems that they have to have a wideband to know whats going on.

A good tuner could look at a set of plugs and know more about whats going on in the engine than an most people with the best diagnostic equipment available.

I am not saying that it isn't possible, just un reliable. I used to be one of those guys back in the day with sub par equipment.

 

[Bladeliger]

at 15 or 16psi, hack the maf, put in a walbro 190. Hacking the maf will lean out the afr's just a touch, that will help the car make more power per psi. It does this by reporting slightly less air than the motor is actually ingesting. Another pleasing side affect is that it will delay the onset of fuel cut.

Yes you would need an afc or some other electronic tuning device if your are going to run 550's. I advise against that, they are simply not needed at this level. Put your money towards a better intercooler.

It would be best to upgrade to a nice fmic, but if you have a/c it can bring overheating problems, this route will net the most gains, allthough the gains maybe minimal over a good smic, it will also cost the most, and involve the most modifications to your car.

An upgraded smic might be a better choice for a street car on this level, somthing like the old school supra smic would be more than adequate for your level, and very affordable.

If you don't have the buget for a upgraded smic, A hard uicp is a good mod that will help the overall system flow, and it would be useable if you later got a better smic.





Ehh, his 100 is like getting 95 here. Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's still a little better tho.

Thank you guys for your nice inputs.

I agree with bastarddsm, that is the level of mods I'm planning.

I will procure a 90 lph pump but where can I source a good enough smic close enough to the supra but not as hard to install? but if I can find a good condition and cheap supra smic i will go for that one.

btw I already have a logger too

@bastarddsm

what do you think will this set-up have

Crank Hp = ?
Wheel Hp = ?

Thank you.

When I swap my motor sometime this week, I'll have an extra freakin 2g mani you can have for dirt ;-)

Though not entirely sure on how much shipping will be that far hehe

Hi,

how much for that manifold?

Is it in good condition?

I have a U.S. address service you can ship it there and I will ship it to the Philippines.

Thank you.

 

[Black-Out]

A good tuner could look at a set of plugs and know more about whats going on in the engine than an most people with the best diagnostic equipment available.

+1 This is still a preffered method of checking the tune IMHO....the plugs won't lie to you.....Sometimes old school is the way to keep it when it comes to simple mods and modest performance upgrades...
For the power your looking for (which is probably only around 230-240 all wheel if your crank shaft goal is 300) you wont be changing all that much at all....
Don't over complicate your mod list if your goal is that low....
Just my 2 cents.

William-

 

[92AWDHX40]

Ive been around since the 90s when they were still new, still dont see any tuning devices, he wants a opionon there you go. AFtermarket boost gauge, good start though.

 

[MrKelly]

skip the radiator and motor mounts until you need them. get an exhaust pref 3" ss turbo back, and 2g intake and mas, a set of 550's, boost controller, maybe a 16g and see where your need for speed and budget are at that point, all easy to come by parts that can be resold easily later to go bigger

 

[bryanwheat]

skip the radiator and motor mounts until you need them. get an exhaust pref 3" ss turbo back, and 2g intake and mas, a set of 550's, boost controller, maybe a 16g and see where your need for speed and budget are at that point, all easy to come by parts that can be resold easily later to go bigger

You are forgetting about something to tune those 550's with.

 

[BoxheadTim]

Wow, I'd run the 99 if I were you! That's probably higher octane than some E-85 that is sold...

Keep in mind that there are two scales for measuring octane at the pump out there. In the US, it's usually AKI at the pump whereas chances are that he's quoting RON.

91 AKI is approx 95 RON (see Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

The UK also has a couple of suppliers for 99 RON fuel, but that's still regular gas with some Ethanol added as an octane booster (IIRC it's E5). Normally E85 has over 100 octane.

 

[MrKelly]

You are forgetting about something to tune those 550's with.

the increase in air flow is almost 30% with the 2g mass, hard intake/filter and the 550's compensate the air/fuel nicely. but he's not going to be able to boost less than 15 and no more than 18 psi. i've done it to a few cars and they ran great but that 250-275 hp is all you'll see untill like you said you get something to tune with and a fuel pump/afpr.

 

[bryanwheat]

IT will run ok. People have been doing it for a long time. It won't be perfect though.

 

[RipperXX]

Stages... silly.








While im pointing, thought I'd point out if there is nothing wrong with your stock radiator, don't waste money upgrading to a Koyo, Fludyne radiator. Also keep the stock fans so long as there working fine. Slimlines suck and move less air.

The only reason you should "need" to upgrade anything on the cooling system, is if you want a lower coolant temp (as in constant) (as in lower temp thermostat) Or your doing some real type of racing...not talking 1/4 or 1/8th mile drag either. I mean like Auto cross, road racing, time attack etc. Slime lines are mostly for when turbos get so big the fans have to be down sized. Radiators... normally get upgraded when the OEM unit fails. But really even then you could save money by going to Napa and getting a $80-100 replacement vs $330-370 brand name aluminum unit, thats thicker and holds more coolant. (double edge sword that).

Rippers suggested mod path. (AFTER MAINTENANCE!)


1. Re-wire fuel pump. (raises voltage at pump. Factory wire has to much resistance as it's to small).
2. Remove, silencer in back of MAS. (restriction)
3. Buy EPROM ECU (unless your is one) get the ECU socketed.
4. Buy ECMLink...Install ECMLink.
5. Buy a LC-1 Wideband or equivilent WB
6. Wire up and Log wideband with Link.
7. Start reading the shit out of the ECMLink wiki
8. Start messing with the timing and fuel maps. Goal would be to lean it out since the factory map is seriously rich and add some timing if you can get away with it.
9. Fuel pressure regulator.
10. Fuel pump of your choice.
11. Injectors of your choice.
12. Retune, dial in new injectors.
13. Raise boost, tune as needed. (lowering timing mostly)
14. By this time you wont need to ask much about whats next.