Need advice on the evo 16g set up.

[VicBoost]

Okay i got a pretty much stock 4g63. I got a aftermarket BOV, air intake, exhaust, don't think i got a downpipe. But anyways what do i need to make this set up work to its full potential. I want to get the full 400whp out of this turbo. By the way its the MHI EVO III 16G from slowboy http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=52&. It was dynoed at 400whp.

 

[GSTBlack95]

How could you get that much better gas mileage, I mean the turbo is acting like a restrictive pieace in the intake system when its not spooling and pushing in air...

 

[ShapeGSX]

Just because an evoIII has flowed 44 lb/min doesn't mean thats the norm. Most people won't see near that amount & are closer to the low to mid 30's on the street. To see that kind of flow from the evoIII your talking 25+ psi of boost, cams & probably some head work and/or SHIM.

44lb/min was on my car. I do have cams, no head work (stock 1G head), stock 1G intake manifold, but cool weather.

I saw 44.1lb/min once. Average is 42 to 43lb/min, depending on the weather.

I ran a spike of over 29psi and it held 26psi to redline that day. Pretty normal.

 

[2gGSX]

How could you get that much better gas mileage, I mean the turbo is acting like a restrictive pieace in the intake system when its not spooling and pushing in air...

It's not so much the restriction that kills mileage as driving with the ECU in closed loop. If you stay in open loop (below a certain airflow signal) then the ECU will adjust fuel delivery based on Front O2 signal. Once you exceed the set airflow (such as when entering boost) the ECU switches to closed loop operation and will inject a set amount of fuel based on the internal fuel map. At this point, you can kiss your mileage goodbye.

 

[endlessMyk]

the 400 hp dyno from Slowboy was pushing it like crazy. It took them a bit to finally get it, but for most people with the evoIII 16g they will never see 400.

 

[Newlogics]

Get a bigger turbo. It will be infinitely easier, safer, more reliable, and far cheaper in the long run.

Get a big turbo an use to 1/3 of it's potential? Where's the logic in that?
Find me a turbo that flows more then 550cfm, super reliable and direct bolt-on for less then $600. and I might agree with you.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Are you joking? Is that sarcasim... I'm hoping and praying it is with that many rep bars.

You can't possibly think the E3 is the ideal turbo for 400hp... If you do, you're out of your mind, plain and simple.

The logic comes in UNDERstressing your parts. Why on earth would you want to pound the life out of a small turbo to flow 100hp more than it was designed to, when you could just get a 20G, FP Green, SCM series and do it with ease? Speed cost money, deal with it or find a new hobby. The SCM's are only like $850 and are bolt on. These larger turbos aren't even breaking a sweat and will be blowing some nice cool air (relatively). The air coming out of an E3 trying to make 400hp could burn the sun. So what's the point? Not to mention power delivery on that Slowboy test was a joke. That thing made peak torque off idle and then dropped like a stone. Anything over 6,000rpm is useless, that's not a power band I like, I want it to PULL to the limiter, not die off to the limiter.

Can you mow a 3 acre field with a weekwacker? Can you cook a turkey with a cigar ligher? Can you wash your car with a cotton ball? Sure.... but WHY?WTF

 

[ShapeGSX]

Not to mention power delivery on that Slowboy test was a joke. That thing made peak torque off idle and then dropped like a stone.

It was a 2.4 with a 16G. That is to be expected on that setup.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Why is that to be expected? How does motor size having anything to do with boost fall off and poor turbine flow? It doesn't.

They got that huge torque figure from setting the boost very high and it drops like a drunk fat girl because that turbo can't flow that much air. Motor size has NOTHING to do with it (please don't get into rod/stroke ratio and how the longer stroke changes breathing, it doesn't effect it to the extent that the chart shows). Again, you can wash your car with a cotton ball, but why? Anyone actually recommending an E3 to someone that wants 400hp needs to have their head examined. I realize you've gone pretty fast with it, and that's good for you. But I think even you can agree with me, unless you're in love with the turbo (for whatever personal reasons) and you love doing things the unnessesarily hard way, just go with a correctly sized turbo.

That turbo is too small for 400hp, end of story.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

You want to buy a $600 turbo and expect to make 400WHP??? I wouldn't be sarcastic if I were you. You have to spend a lot of money to put down 400 WHP. This is what you will be needing:

T3/T4 50 trim internally gated (I recommend external wastegate) = $699-$800
FIC750cc /w walbro 255 (walbro 190 won't cutt it) /w Aeromotive AFPR = $600-700
FMIC /w all the piping = $600-1000
ACT 2600 = $400-430
ACT flywheel = $220-280
DSMLINK, Ultimate Greddy, AEM = $600, $600, $2000 (At this point of SAFC won't compensate for those fuel injectors).
CAMS (272/272) $600
Timing Gears = $100-150
MBC/ Electonic = $50/$400-500 (Electronic will be more accurate overall when weather changes). Remember you will be boost 18psi + to make that power.
Suspension = $500-$1200 (For TEIN SS which is my favourite so far).
Front/Rear strat bars to increase ridgity = $120
Good tires for traction =$800-1000
Parts that will break at that power level = Tranny, driveshafts, CV shafts and engine.

Then you have to upgrade your stock engine =$2500
TRE/ SHEP Tranny + 4 spider gears = $2500

And after that you will to tune and tune and tune until you make 400WHP. After that upgrade your driving skills.

Well that was fun to type out. I hope you realize how much it really costs to make that kind of power reliably for everyday use.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Why is that to be expected? How does motor size having anything to do with boost fall off and poor turbine flow? It doesn't.

The more air the engine swallows per revolution, the more the turbo will have to supply to keep up a given boost level.

This is why the most that Slowboy could get out of the turbo was 22psi at redline, but I can get 26psi with my 2.0.

Now, flow is really what matters, not boost. But different pressure ratios will put you on different parts of the compressor map and may yield different efficiencies. I know where I am on the Evo III 16G map, but I've never analyzed the datalogs of a 2.4 with the same turbo.

Anyway, you can get 400hp out of the Evo III 16G. I'm sure that I have, though I have never dynoed it. It isn't all that difficult to do, but you really need race gas or methanol to do it.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

ShapeGSX. Judgying by your trap speed of 117 MPH with your fully loaded AWD DSM, you are probably really close if not at 400WHP.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Does it really take 400hp to trap 117mph in these cars? These cars suck...

Glad someone explained what it takes to make 400hp.

 

[ShapeGSX]

ShapeGSX. Judgying by your trap speed of 117 MPH with your fully loaded AWD DSM, you are probably really close if not at 400WHP.

I've run 118.8 with it, actually. My car weighs 3315lbs with me in it.

The Evo III 16G is an awesome street turbo because it spools up so quickly. It feels a lot faster than it actually is, and actually, it is pretty damn fast. It makes for a fun ride.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Yea I'd say 118 is pretty fast. Its personal preferance I guess, but please be smart about it. Understressed is better than overstressed.

And for the record, I'm running an E3. But I'm also only shooting for 300hp.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

what are you complaining about, 118 MPH is what a Dodge Viper pulls in the 1/4 (97-03) GTS. They make 450HP, now thats a 8.0 V10 monster, ShapeGSX is making the same amount of power through his 2.0L 4 banger, I think thats pretty impressive .

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I'm not talking against his car or anything like that. But Honda's, SRT-4's, and every other FWD in the world trap that with far less power. I guess AWD can suck sometimes... that and a rediculously heavy car. I'm just getting used to seeing low ET's with low trap speeds. Coming from the Honda world where an 11.5 second car traps 125mph. Gotta love no traction...

 

[Jeremoose]

The air coming out of an E3 trying to make 400hp could burn the sun.

I have to remember that

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Yeah AWD = more moving parts = more friction = more powerloss through the drivetrain. In addition, it weights a lot more as well, there goes more powerloss well not really a power loss, just more weight per horsepower which means a slower car.

I bet that Honda that did a 11.5 at 125MPH had slicks on, or it wouldn't even break 13's .

 

[Nanan]

Does it really take 400hp to trap 117mph in these cars? These cars suck...

Glad someone explained what it takes to make 400hp.

Na, about 350 can do it, I am in the 325-330 range and I have been running a rather consistant set of 12.66@110 with a 2.1 60', if it wasn't for wheel spin in first and second and 90* days i would likely do much better. I don't want to hear crap about ability to launch, the damn car bogs if I don't do a quick slip launch at 4.5k and a 6.5k second shift.

Really I would not suggest an Evo3 if you are looking for 400whp. I would suggest something bigger, I wish I would of now that I am nearing the top of the evo3's abilitys with out nitrous or a built motor with cams.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Na, about 350 can do it, I am in the 300 range and I have been running a rather consistant set of 12.66@110 with a 1.8 60', if it wasn't for wheel spin in first and second and 90* days i would likely do much better. I don't want to hear crap about ability to launch, the damn car bogs if I don't do a quick slip launch at 4.5k and a 6.5k second shift.

50hp won't add 7mph.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

He said in the range of 325-330 HP which he is trapping at 110MPH. He said 117MPH can be done at 350 HP. That makes no sense, no way 20-25HP will add 7MPH. Trust me, you need 400WHP to trap anywhere near that.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Yeah AWD = more moving parts = more friction = more powerloss through the drivetrain. In addition, it weights a lot more as well, there goes more powerloss well not really a power loss, just more weight per horsepower which means a slower car.

I bet that Honda that did a 11.5 at 125MPH had slicks on, or it wouldn't even break 13's .

No believe it or not that was without slicks on low boost (he wanted to test a simulated "street" run). It ran 9.8 at 129 with real slicks (not "slick" DOT tires). I actually have a video of it destroying my buddy's 1G. He wouldn't tell me what it put down for power, but rumor said it was around 400hp. Which is exactly why I'm disappointed with my DSM boat's needs for huge power to go fast.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

The car probably weighs like 2000 pounds. Specially if it was a Civic or something close to that. Minus 1400 pounds from our cars and we have an instant 13 second car with our factory setup .

 

[Ultimatedsm]

c) 1.116 1.797 5.039 7.648 94.53 9.910 11.794 119.98
!!! 11s !!!! Finally broke into the 11s, after 1 year of battling. This was in part to a few things:
---1) Lower boost, 20 instead of 22 (the boost i dynoed with, 20psi gives 405whp on my car)

This was from dre99's website. He made 405WHP and trapped 119.98MPH.

This was his setup:

Run with TurboXS RBV bov/2.5" Upper intercooler pipe short routed/2.5 Lower Intercooler pipe/K&N Intake/3" Maf-Turbo pipe under FENDER/Cut shifter/Fuel Pump rewire/ProfecB at xxpsi/Cold intake induction/Intercooler sprayer(not used)/custom 3" o2 housing, mandrel 3" downpipe and 3.5" catback with 3.5" Dynomax Muffler/Green8cm ported, no clip w/TIAL 46mm external on o2housing dumped out under engine/94 octane /Spearco 2-215 FMIC/ACT2600 Clutch/Walbro 255lh Fuel Pump/Denso 720 Injectors/17" Konig wheels 38psi each corner and KhumoTires/TRE Ported exhaust manifold/FP Ported turbine housing/ STB Strub Bar(not used)/NGKBpr7es @ .030 /Magnecor 8.5 plug wires/MSD, stock coils/Buschur FPR at 50psi idle, 3.75in/kgm2 at rail/Web Cams street grind/stock 1g head/1g TB/Cruise removed/Prothane Motor Mounts/RM Sway Bars/Greddy EGT/Sparco Race Seats/ProefiMNGT system/Stevetek -6an fuel system - intake Pressure tested to 20psi day before/ Apexi Exhaust Cam gear -0deg adjusted/ ExtrudeHoned 1g Intake Manifol/d 178compression all 4, 2% leakage all 4/ 12lb DynaBatt battery/ No AC/compressor/condensor / Fluidyne Radiator / Custom Tranny Cooler / Weight savings / RRE Lightened Stock flywheel / ## Underdrive pulley/Car weight 3390lbs w/me

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Interesting, I noticed he has his plugs gapped at .030, same I have mine gapped at. Everyone else seems to go for smaller than stock. Hmm

Yes, race weight on that Civic was just over 2100lbs with the (quite) fat driver. It's an EG hatch, lots of stuff removed but not stripped by any means.

But to compare again. My friend's full street weight EG coupe trapped 113.9mph on BEAT Costco no brand all season tires and completely bottomed out RActive coilovers, it caught traction at the top of third. That thing dyno'd at 228whp at 8psi. He only turned it up to 12psi for the track. WTF

This has gotten so far off topic...