Need advice on the evo 16g set up.

[VicBoost]

Okay i got a pretty much stock 4g63. I got a aftermarket BOV, air intake, exhaust, don't think i got a downpipe. But anyways what do i need to make this set up work to its full potential. I want to get the full 400whp out of this turbo. By the way its the MHI EVO III 16G from slowboy http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=52&. It was dynoed at 400whp.

 

[Nanan]

You are a long way away from 400 whp, to far to see it really. Try shooting for 300 whp first. Look at my profile, I am at the 300-350 whp range atm so go from there on what you need to do still.

The mod stages exist for a reason, going from bone stock to a 400 whp beast is damn expensive and requires much tuning and often rebuilding of parts that break. You should start off by the basics of stage 1 then work your way up.

You need:
ACT 2600, CMDF, or equiv
190 lph or a 255 lph pump + AFPR
650 cc/min or larger injectors
MBC/EBC
DSMLink or SAFC + PocketLogger
2.5-3" or strait 3" DP then 3" cat back
FMIC, something that will not heat soak to quickly cause 400 whp is the high end of an Evo3.
Tuning like a mofo, either at a dyno or do it your self.

Suggested items:
WBO2
Meth/H2O injection
rebuilt engine
rebuilt trans
poly engine mounts
Evo3 exhaust manny or equiv
Evo3 O2 housing or equiv
More tuning, lots of it

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Get a bigger turbo. It will be infinitely easier, safer, more reliable, and far cheaper in the long run.

 

[BeerBaron]

yeah dude, I would go with a 50 trim if your goal is 400hp and you dont want a huge turbo. 400 is pushin the 16g to the max, and youll have to run more boost than you would with a 50trim. I wouldnt bother even upgrading the turbo now as you still have a stock fuel system, and you havent even begun to max out your stock turbo, I don't even see mention of a mbc. Start with fuel system and a dp.

 

[Spooling99]

Before you start doing any mods. Make sure you pick up a pocketlogger first. Like previously stated you should shoot for 300whp before jumping straight to 400hp. Its not an easy # to get to, Especially on a 16g. I'd suggest something bigger. If you want something that looks sleeper you could go with a 18g from FP. You'll have to be pretty good at tuning as well, or get DSMlink or a Keydiver chip.
-Adam

 

[VicBoost]

Get a bigger turbo. It will be infinitely easier, safer, more reliable, and far cheaper in the long run.

What do you suggest. Also if any of you guys can give me a list that would be great. Also my car is auto with a shift kit.

 

[Abarth Fiat]

If I were you, and I had the $, I'd look into a ball bearing turbo. Check out FP. You'll definitly need to upgrade the rest of your components to support the 400hp. Also, this new craze of slapping a monster turbo on and looking for high hp numbers is crazy IMO. People with small16g's have ran 11's consistently. Hell, people with 14b's have ran consitent 11's with stock injectors/intercooler. Basically, a big turbo will do you no good if you're not ready for it. Actually, it could possibly even hurt your performance rather than help it. What good is a 50 trim if you can only run it at wastegate pressure . I have a FP Street/Strip tdo6h 20G and ported E3 manny with HKS external gate for sale if you're interested in that. The 20G is a proven workhorse to make 400hp with and contrary to what you'll hear, the spool is fine. I noticed an improved low end over the e316g and a huge gain in top end. It's a bolt on affair too which makes it a solid choice for those looking for the 350-450whp range.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

^ Just because people HAVE run 11's on a 16G or you CAN run 11's on a 14B, doesn't mean its the best or safest way to do it. When you're running water/meth injection or disconnecting your wastegate line just to make 350whp something is wrong. Just get a bigger turbo.


I'd go with an FP Green or one of the Precision SCM series. I'm not a 20G fan, unless you can get the TD06 exhaust housing, the 05 is too small for that kind of power. Either way, there are far better bolt on turbos on the market now for the same or less money.

 

[SinaiTSi]

By the way its the MHI EVO III 16G from slowboy http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=52&. It was dynoed at 400whp.

Yeah.....the only thing is that, the car they dynoed it with had a 2.3L.
Here is a list of the major mods on the car:

SBR Stage II 2.3L stroker (7.5:1 compression, .020" overbore)
SBR Stage VI head, O ring with Topline HG
Comp 101200 camshafts
SBR cast manifold
SBR EVO III 16g, internal gate
HKS VPC
APEXI SAFC I
FIC 650's
SBR fuel system (like we sell on the website, with Aeromotive FPR)

EDIT: Apparently engine size has nothing to do with it.... read this link and decide for yourself. Also, I don't know for sure, but I did hear that this was also on a GST.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141670&highlight=400+hp+16g

 

[TheClaw]

Hahaa... No offense but you don't even know if you "have a downpipe" and you're talking about 400hp?!?!?

Come on guy..

Read up, learn the basics.

 

[mastadogg2]

doesnt take to much to achieve 300whp with that turbo. 400whp on the otherhand well.... thats alittle tricky... I have a evo3 16g myself. I dynoed with the base fuel maps & deadtime that dsmlink recommends with my size injectors & no timing advance. got 302whp / 319ft/lbs. this was at 24-25psi spiking (dropping off to a steady 16psi - with the boost gauge never showing the psi drop) on 94oct. Most guys that achieve there 350whp+ actually spike there boost to around 28psi+ then when it tappers down it will hold a steady 23-24 or so. Im in the process of investing in a water/meth injection myself and a afpr for my pump which is being overrun pretty bad.

For the dsmlink guys here are my logs, you will notice I was running very very rich, about 10.9 a/f rich.. if you want those kind of numbers with this turbo you will definitely need a good set of cams.

http://home.comcast.net/~mastadogg/dyno2.dat



680 injectors
210lph pump (rewired)
1g crushed bov
1g tb
3" turboback exhaust / no cat/
act clutch/flywheel
little 18row greddy fmic
hard piping (not needed)
ported intake manifold to match 1g tb
hallman pro mbc
arp headstuds
mitsu multi layer hg
and lets not forget the most import thing of all
DSMLINK! for tuning.

 

[mastadogg2]

Yeah.....the only thing is that, the car they dynoed it with had a 2.3L.
Here is a list of the major mods on the car:

SBR Stage II 2.3L stroker (7.5:1 compression, .020" overbore)
SBR Stage VI head, O ring with Topline HG
Comp 101200 camshafts
SBR cast manifold
SBR EVO III 16g, internal gate
HKS VPC
APEXI SAFC I
FIC 650's
SBR fuel system (like we sell on the website, with Aeromotive FPR)

EDIT: Apparently engine size has nothing to do with it.... read this link and decide for yourself. Also, I don't know for sure, but I did hear that this was also on a GST.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141670&highlight=400+hp+16g

they used that low of compression?
it was on an AWD vehicle but was running FWD for those specific dyno pulls.
( I think)

 

[mastadogg2]

Before you start doing any mods. Make sure you pick up a pocketlogger first. Like previously stated you should shoot for 300whp before jumping straight to 400hp. Its not an easy # to get to, Especially on a 16g. I'd suggest something bigger. If you want something that looks sleeper you could go with a 18g from FP. You'll have to be pretty good at tuning as well, or get DSMlink or a Keydiver chip.
-Adam

evo3 16g is inbetween a 18g-20g .... guys have gotten 44lb/min from this turbo with stock 2g MAF unhacked. Personally ive gotten mine to 39.5lb/min. the average big 16g never sees past 36lb/min. If I were to start over i would have went with a gt3076r. not much more laggier and capable of over 50lb/min

 

[mastadogg2]

^ Just because people HAVE run 11's on a 16G or you CAN run 11's on a 14B, doesn't mean its the best or safest way to do it. When you're running water/meth injection or disconnecting your wastegate line just to make 350whp something is wrong. Just get a bigger turbo.


I'd go with an FP Green or one of the Precision SCM series. I'm not a 20G fan, unless you can get the TD06 exhaust housing, the 05 is too small for that kind of power. Either way, there are far better bolt on turbos on the market now for the same or less money.

nothing is wrong with running water or meth injection. if its going to lower or eliminate your detonation then I see no problem... you act like its a bad thing to do.. personally im switching to it only because of the gas prices right now. id much rather be running 92octane with some meth/water injection then going to sunoco and paying out the ass for 94octane. unhooking the signal to the wastegate actuator is another story tho.. thats just plain stupid......

 

[droppinbottom]

evo3 16g is inbetween a 18g-20g .... guys have gotten 44lb/min from this turbo with stock 2g MAF unhacked. Personally ive gotten mine to 39.5lb/min. the average big 16g never sees past 36lb/min. If I were to start over i would have went with a gt3076r. not much more laggier and capable of over 50lb/min

How is a 16g inbetween a 18-20g?

 

[mastadogg2]

If you dont understand what airflow is dont question me. as far as airflow goes an evo3 16g was prooven to flow inbetween 18g-20g's. its not a normal "16g" like I said above a normal big 16g can only flow around 36lb/min where as a evo3 16g has done 44lb/min already.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

nothing is wrong with running water or meth injection. if its going to lower or eliminate your detonation then I see no problem... you act like its a bad thing to do.. personally im switching to it only because of the gas prices right now. id much rather be running 92octane with some meth/water injection then going to sunoco and paying out the ass for 94octane. unhooking the signal to the wastegate actuator is another story tho.. thats just plain stupid......

You missed my point. There's a place for it. But if you just got a bigger turbo then you wouldn't need it.

Its like trying to make ducting, fans, sprayers, CryO2, etc to help the stock sidemount. Why not just upgrade to a front mount? It solves all your problems, its safer, and easier.

Skimping on gas is another whole issue I don't even want to get started on.

And as stupid as unhooking the wastegate signal may sound. Its basically what many people are doing. If your turbo isn't holding boost to redline, then its no different than running it full out with the wastegate completely shut. I've heard people on here saying that E16G's "bleed down" near redline. GET A BIGGER TURBO! If you're working it that hard, you're probably worlds off reasonable efficiency and probably well over the highest safe shaft speed.

How is a 16g inbetween a 18-20g?

Its a modified version of a regular 16G. The compressor wheel and compressor housing have some small changes that add up to big increases in airflow and HUGE increases in efficiency over the Big 16G.

 

[daren_p]

Its a modified version of a regular 16G. The compressor wheel and compressor housing have some small changes that add up to big increases in airflow and HUGE increases in efficiency over the Big 16G.

Yes the evoIII will flow more then a big 16g because of the comp wheel design & size, but you said between 18g & 20g, so you didn't answer his question. The evoIII isn't between the 18g & 20g, they both are larger.

 

[daren_p]

If you dont understand what airflow is dont question me. as far as airflow goes an evo3 16g was prooven to flow inbetween 18g-20g's. its not a normal "16g" like I said above a normal big 16g can only flow around 36lb/min where as a evo3 16g has done 44lb/min already.

Just because an evoIII has flowed 44 lb/min doesn't mean thats the norm. Most people won't see near that amount & are closer to the low to mid 30's on the street. To see that kind of flow from the evoIII your talking 25+ psi of boost, cams & probably some head work and/or SHIM. 18 & 20g's are larger & it is possible to see more flow out of them vs the evoIII (on the proper setup of course).

I see above you said you have logged 39.5 lb/min, was just wondering what amount of boost you were running to see that? I see you have some head work done but are still running stock cams?

 

[Jeremoose]

Before you start doing any mods. Make sure you pick up a pocketlogger first. Like previously stated you should shoot for 300whp before jumping straight to 400hp. Its not an easy # to get to, Especially on a 16g. I'd suggest something bigger. If you want something that looks sleeper you could go with a 18g from FP. You'll have to be pretty good at tuning as well, or get DSMlink or a Keydiver chip.
-Adam

Not to hijack but... For a half-decent tune, can a Keydiver chip actually replace DSMlink?

 

[mastadogg2]

Just because an evoIII has flowed 44 lb/min doesn't mean thats the norm. Most people won't see near that amount & are closer to the low to mid 30's on the street.

I see above you said you have logged 39.5 lb/min, was just wondering what amount of boost you were running to see that? I see you have some head work done but are still running stock cams?

stock head, besides the mild porting. mild intake manifold porting as well to match 1g throttle body. its just a stock 7 bolt basically. the guy that has made 44lb/min did have cams yes and they give an extra 2-4lb/min so that definitely helps!. on race gas im sure I could see a tad over 40lb/min but again its pushing the turbo to its full limitations. on 39.5lb/min i spike it to around 26psi, then it drops down to around 20. these turbos cant hold there boost at all. the boost gauge will read 26psi all day and not budge but when i check my dsmlink logs its another story. that said I would say the normal average ive seen for guys with evo3 16g's was around 33-35lb/min or so.

probably well over the highest safe shaft speed..

they dont design turbos to fall apart. the only thing that gets unefficient at higher psi is the compressed air the turbo is producing. once a turbo is in its unefficiency range it will blow very hot air. but im sure you knew that but i dont want you thinking they design turbos that will fail at higher boost levels because thats not the case. it will destroy your engine before the turbo fails mechanically.

anyways.......
Im not going to disagree tho.... if theres a better product out there that will allow you to achieve your goal easier and safer then why bother with something your going to push to its full limits just to meet your goal? you could use a bigger ball bearing turbo still have as quick as spool and achieve your goal at much much lower boost levels, and at the same time the turbo will be yawning as its working. if i could i would get rid of my 16g in a heartbeat, but the turbo i want is very expensive. plus i dont want to push my dinky 7 bolt rods anymore.

 

[mastadogg2]

Not to hijack but... For a half-decent tune, can a Keydiver chip actually replace DSMlink?

of course but the problem with a chip is, you are stuck with the settings. so youll end up getting an safc or similar in the long run to compensate for changes. dont get me wrong jeff-o's chips are pretty damn decent. I know someone with a 14b setup (FWD car) still on sidemount, ran a 13.4 with just evo inj, walbro 255, dsmchip, custom exhaust, mbc.

if you have a 1g i dont see a problem with a safc + dsmchip + pocketlogger. the reason I have dsmlink is because I got tired of coming home taking logs out of my pocketlogger and going down my timing list to see when it was being retarded. gets very annoying after awhile. with dsmlink it will display the knock in degrees right as your driving so it makes it far far much easier to work with for a 2G owner.

 

[Jeremoose]

Thanks

/Hijack

 

[VicBoost]

How is the gas mileage on the bigger turbos? Also looks like i'm probably going to go with the evo 16g and hit around 300hp+, yes i know all about the supporting parts you need. then probably go over to the 18g or 20g set up from FB, get a big FMIC and tune like a bi***. I'am basically going to follow the tech set up...it actually tells you exactly what you need to do.

 

[2gGSX]

If you control your right foot then fuel economy will be the same as any other turbo, perhaps even better since flooring it on the highway in 5th gear at 65 mph won't net you a full spool. Basically, if you stay in open loop as much as possible you'll get good mileage.