My used 1995 Eagle Talon ESI: Starting issues

[jt14894]

Hi I'm a new owner of a used 1995 Eagle Talon ESI 5-spd (92,600 miles) and just need a little help on a starting issue.
I've done searches and found topics mostly for older models (1g). There were a few 2gs, but nothing similar to my issue so here goes.
When I start the car from a cold start, it kind of hesitates or almost stalls (sometimes the Check Engine light flashes) and then it revs up normally.
And once the engine is already warm or at normal operating temperature, it'll start up fine no matter how many times I drive it during the day.
But once the next day rolls around and I start it up from a cold start, the same hesitation occurs.
Have any you experienced this or know of someone with a similar issue?
Any help or suggestions is much appreciated.
Thanks!
JT

 

[speedy13]

If your ECU is throwing a code,then get the code,you'll be able to go the right direction then.

 

[Fayt]

Check your spark plugs and wires. Sounds like they could be worn, so its hesitating because it can't get everything started and get it moving when its cold, but once its already warm its fine. It's blinking the CEL because its almost stalling out.

 

[Kainnen]

I had the same problem but mine started out just having trouble with the engine turning over, took a few tries. Then it got worst and would have trouble keeping the idle up and die, now the ECU clicks and the idles drop and i have to give it gas to keep it from dying then its fine after that. It went from only doing it when it sat for a long period to doing it almost everytime i start the car now. I put new plugs and wires on but it did not help. The CEL never comes on once its started but i think it flashes when its trying to start. Rarely on a cold start the ECU makes a buzzing sound or at least it sounds like its in that area. Im still trying to find out what the problem is, this has been happening for bout 3 weeks for me now and keeps getting worst.

 

[iutfgjhffthg]

i was having the same problem, of course it is a 1g. but me idle was off just a little i suggest setting your idle, if that doesn't work remember you do have a 10 year old car if you haven't kept up on maintenance a full tune up might be in order, fuel filter, check plugs, check timing, plug wires. thats what i did and now I'm running like a champ

 

[speedy13]

he can't adjust his idle,he has a IAC motor that does it for him.the IAC could be failing,but so could the IAT,or map.Hence,it would be nice to see the code to see what were looking at.

 

[iutfgjhffthg]

and like Fayt already said its blinking the CEL because it almost stalls. which happened to me to its not throwing a code. for example turn on your car but dont crank it your Check engine light will be on, same thing. so checking the code wont help but the rest of my advice such as a full tune up will at least help, maybe not solve the problem.

 

[jt14894]

Thanks guys for the tips.
I'll try out your suggestions and keep you posted.

JT

 

[dr1665]

First of all, on a 2GNT, flashing CEL is an active misfire. This leads me to believe the plugs and wires should be checked out. Second, before replacing anything, I would try the keydance. Being a 95, I'm pretty sure you can do it. It's mostly the 98-99s that can't in the 2GNT world.

I'll retype this just because I don't feel like working today.

Turn the key to the ACC position, then do this (without starting the engine):
ON-ACC-ON-ACC-ON.

Watch the CEL. It usually does a 12 (one flash, two flash) to start and ends with 55 (five flash, five flash). In between, it should throw some general codes. The general codes are posted on 2GNTs homepage if you need to look one up.

I'd suggest you look into some basic maintenance right away. Autozone sells a nice set of Bosch silicone plug wires for about $40 with a lifetime warranty. Pick up some stock NGK spark plugs (Iridium and Platinum are for idiots with money to burn.). You might also consider picking up a $3 PCV valve. Then there is the issue of the timing belt. Do you know when it was last changed? If not, you're on thin ice. Very serious maintenance issue with any DSM. A $50 belt could cost you your entire engine if it fails.

Just thought I would chime in. Good luck with it.

 

[jt14894]

First of all, on a 2GNT, flashing CEL is an active misfire. This leads me to believe the plugs and wires should be checked out. Second, before replacing anything, I would try the keydance. Being a 95, I'm pretty sure you can do it. It's mostly the 98-99s that can't in the 2GNT world.

I'll retype this just because I don't feel like working today.

Turn the key to the ACC position, then do this (without starting the engine):
ON-ACC-ON-ACC-ON.

Watch the CEL. It usually does a 12 (one flash, two flash) to start and ends with 55 (five flash, five flash). In between, it should throw some general codes. The general codes are posted on 2GNTs homepage if you need to look one up.

I'd suggest you look into some basic maintenance right away. Autozone sells a nice set of Bosch silicone plug wires for about $40 with a lifetime warranty. Pick up some stock NGK spark plugs (Iridium and Platinum are for idiots with money to burn.). You might also consider picking up a $3 PCV valve. Then there is the issue of the timing belt. Do you know when it was last changed? If not, you're on thin ice. Very serious maintenance issue with any DSM. A $50 belt could cost you your entire engine if it fails.

Just thought I would chime in. Good luck with it.

Thanks for the advice dr1665.
Sorry for the stupid newbie question (I'm only a novice do-it-yourselfer, but learning as I go), but how or where do I get the code? In other words, after I do the keydance will it show me a number or do I bring the car an auto parts store and have them plug it their code reader?
One thing I forgot to mention is that the car had been sitting in my friend's drive way for a long time and hasn't been driven much the past year or two
I was wondering if that would be contributing factor to starting issue.

For your suggestion on maintenance, that last time it was done was around 60000+ miles which included a tune up, etc., but at 92000+ miles I think its due.
I don't know if the fuel filter was replaced at that time so should I get that done anyway?
I believe the timing belt was done at around 70000 miles so I think I'm ok, but I'll check with my friend again.
Another thing that needs to get done is the brakes. When the maintenance was done at 60000, the mechanic said they were fine, but it feels like they're in need of a change.
Other than that, everything else seems to be running fine.
I appreciate your input.

JT

 

[dr1665]

Sorry for the stupid newbie question (I'm only a novice do-it-yourselfer, but learning as I go), but how or where do I get the code? In other words, after I do the keydance will it show me a number or do I bring the car an auto parts store and have them plug it their code reader?

There are no stupid questions. There are just questions which have already been answered that were not researched before they were asked again. We were all newbies at one point or another. In fact, just three years ago, I was asking about indiglow gauges and colored gauge needles.

The keydance will result in the CEL flashing at you. The best way to explain it to you is like this: If you got "43," the CEL will flash four times, pause briefly, then flash three times, before taking a slightly longer pause before flashing the next code. As I said, it usually starts with 12 and always ends with 55. If you wanted to keep it simple, just do the 'dance and write down the number of flashes between pauses. This might look like this: 1, 2, 3, 1, 4, 3, 5, 5. Pair the numbers up to make two-digits. Translated? 12, 31, 43, 55. Make sense now?

One thing I forgot to mention is that the car had been sitting in my friend's drive way for a long time and hasn't been driven much the past year or two
I was wondering if that would be contributing factor to starting issue.

Um, yeah. It could be some turpentine in your gas tank. Gas is pretty potent stuff, but even it can go bad if left sitting out too long. Don't ask me why, but I've heard this before. Also, rubber seals might start to dry out in things like injectors and vacuum lines. Sounds like you need to do some serious looking over on this engine bay.

For your suggestion on maintenance, that last time it was done was around 60000+ miles which included a tune up, etc., but at 92000+ miles I think its due.

I would agree. Especially in a car that has sat for so long. Don't want to risk a dried-out belt failing. Good news? The belt is only like $50. Bad news? It's a chore. Anyone can do it, but it's a chore.

I don't know if the fuel filter was replaced at that time so should I get that done anyway?

If we're suspecting bad gas, I would definitely do this. Also, fill it up with some fresh gas. Top that sucker off and try to make your way through that first tank. You might and up having to replace the filter twice, but yeah. Nasty business.

Another thing that needs to get done is the brakes. When the maintenance was done at 60000, the mechanic said they were fine, but it feels like they're in need of a change.

You can get some cheap-o pads at Autozone for $10. Seriously. The stock rotors run about $25/ea, so that's probably all you would need. Check the brake lines to the calipers for any damage and inspect all the connections for any signs of leakage. Air in the brake lines is damn near deadly.

Other than that, everything else seems to be running fine.
I appreciate your input.

You're almost there. As with any used DSM, you're just going to have to spend some time ironing out all the little bugs that pop up on you when you least expect it. 2GNTs can be some damn reliable cars, but they have to be taken care of like anything else. Sounds like you're on your way.

 

[jt14894]

I did the keydance, last night, and it didn't appear to flash any numbers, hopefully I read it right. But, I got one long flash of the ECL and then the last 55 so I'm assuming that there were no codes.
However, I was doing at little more research, online, and found some information from Auto Consumer Guide which provides professional, unbiased evaluations of nearly 1000 new and used vehicles.
In its review of the 1995-98 Eagle Talon, it noted a trouble spot related to Engine Misfires for the 1995 model.
This is the exact quote:
Engine misfire: Engine may idle rough, hesitate, stall, or be hard to restart during cold weather until the engine warms. A new engine control computer is required. (1995)
Here's the link:http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2145/act/usedcarreviewreliability/
This kind of describes what happens when I first start it in the morning.
If this is what may be the cause, I wonder how much it would cost to replace the ECU?
Has anybody had this done before?
But before I go that route, what I'll do first is go ahead and do a tune up, replace plug wires, fuel filter etc. and if that doesn't do the trick then I'll think about getting the ECU checked or replaced, which sounds clostly.

Thanks again!

JT

 

[jt14894]

I did the keydance, last night, and it didn't appear to flash any numbers, hopefully I read it right. But, I got one long flash of the ECL and then the last 55 so I'm assuming that there were no codes.
However, I was doing at little more research, online, and found some information from Auto Consumer Guide which provides professional, unbiased evaluations of nearly 1000 new and used vehicles.
In its review of the 1995-98 Eagle Talon, it noted a trouble spot related to Engine Misfires for the 1995 model.
This is the exact quote:
Engine misfire: Engine may idle rough, hesitate, stall, or be hard to restart during cold weather until the engine warms. A new engine control computer is required. (1995)
Here's the link:http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2145/act/usedcarreviewreliability/
This kind of describes what happens when I first start it in the morning.
If this is what may be the cause, I wonder how much it would cost to replace the ECU?
Has anybody had this done before?
But before I go that route, what I'll do first is go ahead and do a tune up, replace plug wires, fuel filter etc. and if that doesn't do the trick then I'll think about getting the ECU checked or replaced, which sounds clostly.

Thanks again!

JT

Just wanted to give a quick update on the starting issue I was having.
Oddly enough, the hesitation and semi-stalling has suddenly gone away and the car starts up fine.
It started up normally yesterday and the day before. I don't know what did it. Maybe it was just the gas since I filled it up a few days ago. It had been sitting in a driveway for a long time and maybe it just need time to burn off all the old gas. Who knows, but all is fine now.
Go figure?