My Terrible Experience With Wiseco

[blackrosenova40]

Last spring I built a 2.4 with standard Wiseco pistons and eagle rods. About a month ago and 7500 miles of using this engine, I had a wrist pin crack in half.

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Contacted Wiseco, told them I am running 32-35 psi and am at 500whp. They blamed it on too much boost and power for these pistons.

Noticed this thread and decided to look at all of my pistons and found all four of them have cracks in the same spot as lccynmbr13! Some of them have two cracks with one on the opposite side!

Sorry I cant get pics my camera is not good enough to take a define picture of the pistons.

 

[lccynmbr13]

No it's not what thread are you looking at that is saying regular Wiseco pistons are bad? I have had two sets of regular Wiseco pistons in two different dsm engines(4g63 &420a) and I'm building my talon now with the HDs and I can say that I have never had any issues with any of my pistons and two that any time I called them they were there and willing to answer my questions. If you don't let your car warm up before going out and beating on it with any forged piston your asking for trouble period.

I'm glad that you assume that we're all stupid when replying to my post. I have never so much as moved my car an inch without warming it up to operating temperature. The 420a piston is a totally different piston than a 4g63 so that's irrelevant. Recognize who you're talking down to before you try and make me out to be a fool on the public forum. Not only have I worked on and dealt with performance cars since I was of age to drive I worked for Pina Motorsports for over 2 years doing everything from building full race 4g63engines to dyno tuning and fabrication. I've been around the block. As for your pistons being fine that's great, this thread isn't for you, this is for the many other people who have had issues with their Wiseco pistons cracking. If you're going to say you've had good luck with them that's fine but leave your smart ass comments elsewhere. A piston cracking due to being beaten pre warm up is going to crack from the outside in, not the inside out anyway.

As for the chatter on DSMLink here's the first post I pulled up on my search, and there's more where it came from.

ECMTuning User Support Forums

2nd reply down by JohnnyTSI

 

[blackrosenova40]

Im rather upset right now with the pistons I had chosen. I always made sure it was at operating temp before any medium/high loads. 500whp? I bet stock pistons and rods would be just fine with with no detonation!

All four of these have the same cracks in the same areas, right at the curve near the pin boss.

 

[Slippi84]

I'm glad that you assume that we're all stupid when replying to my post. I have never so much as moved my car an inch without warming it up to operating temperature. The 420a piston is a totally different piston than a 4g63 so that's irrelevant. Recognize who you're talking down to before you try and make me out to be a fool on the public forum. Not only have I worked on and dealt with performance cars since I was of age to drive I worked for Pina Motorsports for over 2 years doing everything from building full race 4g63engines to dyno tuning and fabrication. I've been around the block. As for your pistons being fine that's great, this thread isn't for you, this is for the many other people who have had issues with their Wiseco pistons cracking. If you're going to say you've had good luck with them that's fine but leave your smart ass comments elsewhere. A piston cracking due to being beaten pre warm up is going to crack from the outside in, not the inside out anyway.

As for the chatter on DSMLink here's the first post I pulled up on my search, and there's more where it came from.

ECMTuning User Support Forums

2nd reply down by JohnnyTSI

For someone claiming to be a "pro" you sure act like a noob. You got ass hurt because I asked where this so called bogus "movement" can be seen and you like a noob link me to a thread which I not only knew about but commented in on the link forum many times already

Second I say if you don't warm up a car with forged pistons they will crack and you get ass hurt even though I never said that was directed only or mainly at you. You think because you worked at a shop building engines your above being wrong Saying good for you your pistons worked but all the rest are bad is idiotic and close minded. I never said that Wiseco pistons don't crack but you came one with some BS like there's some forum wide movement to black list all regular Wiseco pistons. I just wanted to come on and make sure guys like blackrosenova40 don't get discouraged because one easily ass hurt member had to make a thread about his hair line cracked pistons.

 

[Slippi84]

Im rather upset right now with the pistons I had chosen. I always made sure it was at operating temp before any medium/high loads. 500whp? I bet stock pistons and rods would be just fine with with no detonation!

All four of these have the same cracks in the same areas, right at the curve near the pin boss.

I don't know if your a link member but it says in the thread he linked me to that they have never seen a piston fail even though some have found these small hair line cracks. SHearer said in the same thread a off the shelf Wiseco piston with upgraded wrist pin would be good for over 700hp. So take stuff you hear from everyone including myself with a grain of salt.

 

[lccynmbr13]

For someone claiming to be a "pro" you sure act like a noob. You got ass hurt because I asked where this so called bogus "movement" can be seen and you like a noob link me to a thread which I not only knew about but commented in on the link forum many times already

Second I say if you don't warm up a car with forged pistons they will crack and you get ass hurt even though I never said that was directed only or mainly at you. You think because you worked at a shop building engines your above being wrong Saying good for you your pistons worked but all the rest are bad is idiotic and close minded. I never said that Wiseco pistons don't crack but you came one with some BS like there's some forum wide movement to black list all regular Wiseco pistons. I just wanted to come on and make sure guys like blackrosenova40 don't get discouraged because one easily ass hurt member had to make a thread about his hair line cracked pistons.

I'm not easily ass hurt I'm just tired of the people on this forum always being so quick to think everyone else is naive. I never once said all Wiseco pistons are bad. I'm just saying it's happened to enough people that you should be forwarned what you could be buying. If it's not an issue to you fine, but I haven't seen anyone having this same problem with other manufacturers on this scale, so as far as I'm concerned if I can buy a piston without notoriety for this issue, that's where I'm spending my money, as I'm sure most others would agree. And what are you saying I think I'm above being wrong about? There's no right or wrong on this issue, it's not a matter of what ring gap to file or what the perfect AFR is, it's just a fact that numorous people have had an issue and I'm bringing it to the attention of this forum.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

For someone claiming to be a "pro" you sure act like a noob. You got ass hurt because I asked where this so called bogus "movement" can be seen and you like a noob link me to a thread which I not only knew about but commented in on the link forum many times already

Second I say if you don't warm up a car with forged pistons they will crack and you get ass hurt even though I never said that was directed only or mainly at you. You think because you worked at a shop building engines your above being wrong Saying good for you your pistons worked but all the rest are bad is idiotic and close minded. I never said that Wiseco pistons don't crack but you came one with some BS like there's some forum wide movement to black list all regular Wiseco pistons. I just wanted to come on and make sure guys like blackrosenova40 don't get discouraged because one easily ass hurt member had to make a thread about his hair line cracked pistons.

You might consider your post could have been condescending. You seemed to indicate this is not a problem and that there aren't more people with this problem than those who have reported it they just don't know it because it is hard to spot. You also indicate that people are running into problems from not warming up their cars - as if this is all user error and THAT's the reason. You are dead on about blackrosenova40 though. That poor guy is tweaking out from the looks of things over here! Someone did have to come in and clear up that this is not reason to panic.
Obviously there was a misunderstanding but let's not go around name calling etc. This is a technical information thread. I'm not trying to fight anyone's fight for them - more like just keep things fair.

This problem likely IS more frequent than we know of.
Many haven't had any issues.
None have had failures.
Your anecdotal experience speaks highly of Weisco.
lccynmbr13's anecdotal experience speaks lesser of Weisco.
Don't panic because not everyone is 100% satisfied with the product.

Annnnd that's about all that can be said from all this. Except that your opinion of said DSMlink threads don't indicate the same conclusion that lccynmbr13 arrived at after reading them.

Let's not be hasty. Onward with the thread. It's just getting good!

 

[AlaskanDsm]

I believe that it is both good to know that there are issues with the pistons as well as that even those that do have the cracks, none have failed. This is anything should be an assurance that even though the product has a defect, its not going to make your engine go boom... at least for a while. So those who have purchased them don't have to tweak out about the issue but hopefully will keep in mind the possible issues.

On another note, I halfway feel the energy from this thread is headed towards that Chevy Vs. Ford thing. Haha.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

On another note, I halfway feel the energy from this thread is headed towards that Chevy Vs. Ford thing. Haha.

HA!

Has anyone else had issues with the wrist pin, itself? That's a gnarly photo on page1.

 

[blackrosenova40]

I just find it to be a wierd coincidence that my cracks are all in the same spot. I had a very knowledgable builder set up the cylinders and rings before installation and ALWAYS warmed the car up properly before any loads. In fact my co-workers gave me crap about it as they always enticed me by flooring there cars knowing I would not, and then the next day they would say they kicked my ass .

They gave me crap mostly because me and my co-workers are diesel tech, and im the only one who is not a CHEVY or a FORD guy.

My wrist pins were not the thicker wrist pins that are .225 inches thick. I mine with my micrometer and they are .18 thick if I remember right.

The Wiseco represenative stated that my 500whp and 32-35 psi of boost caused the problem as the pistons/wrist pins are rated at 650 crank hp.

I had no idea, I wish I would have known.

 

[aero_sallee]

Mine was always babied until being warmed up. It also never took anything over ~300whp. Was DD'd most of its ~20,000 miles. Very conservative timing, AFR's, and run on E85 for most of the "hard" miles.

In other words nothing that a stock motor wouldn't have survived without a hitch.

All 4 have cracks in the same location as the other pictures in this thread. IIRC they have propagated further than those though.

They were purchased back in '04 IIRC.

Before he disappeared off the face of the earth, Brian told me that back in 04-05 they stiffened up the forgings.

 

[lccynmbr13]

Mine was always babied until being warmed up. It also never took anything over ~300whp. Was DD'd most of its ~20,000 miles. Very conservative timing, AFR's, and run on E85 for most of the "hard" miles.

In other words nothing that a stock motor wouldn't have survived without a hitch.

All 4 have cracks in the same location as the other pictures in this thread. IIRC they have propagated further than those though.

They were purchased back in '04 IIRC.

Before he disappeared off the face of the earth, Brian told me that back in 04-05 they stiffened up the forgings.

I wonder if what you said is true about them changing the forging. It's very possible that if this is the case, my pistons may had been stocked on my builders shelf pre '05. Can anyone verify if theirs have had the same cracks on a piston manufactured post '05?

I'm definately not trying to make this a Chevy vs Ford type thing, I would have still been down with Wiseco and rebuilding with a set of HD1400s if I wouldn't have had such a bad customer service experience, but I feel like I'd be kicking myself in the foot for buying the same set of pistons that I just had this issue with again when there are other options.

 

[aero_sallee]

Here is that part of the email from him. I assume its accurate since its straight from their rep. It was a response to a question I asked him if some of it doesn't make sense .

Yes, the early forgings were made flexible to be quiet on the street. The forgings were beefed up back in 04/05 and the 1400hd’s were released after that for the big powered stuff. With some time under their belts, we’ve found the HD can be run tighter than the .0045 we initially spec’d them at, so I’d be fine running those at .0035 or so. The pins in those are massive and toolsteel and cost a lot of money normally.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I've got three motors in for freshen-ups at the shop now that had been running Wisecos. I intend to push the pistons out tomorrow and have a close look at them to see if they're cracked like you guys are seeing.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I've got three motors in for freshen-ups at the shop now that had been running Wisecos. I intend to push the pistons out tomorrow and have a close look at them to see if they're cracked like you guys are seeing.

That would be awsome. I'm really curious to see what you find. Would you happen to have been the ones who built the motor and have an idea of the dates the pistons were purchased?

 

[Slippi84]

I picked up a set of custom 1400 pistons from a guy on the link forums a little while back. I called Wiseco and they picked up right away and gave my all the answers I needed and even put me on hold to go find out one answer that the guy didn't know off the top of his head(which to be fair he shouldn't have anyway). All that keeping in mind I did not spend a cent with them. In my eyes that is above average customer service. This is not directed at anyone or to be combative but just to inform others that Wiseco does answer their phones and provide good customer service.


By the way how many miles do you guys have on your pistons that are finding these cracks and what power levels were you making? Any engine failures? Compression problems?

 

[blackrosenova40]

7500 miles, 500whp

Engine failure? Yes wrist pin cracked in half.

Compression? Checked compression for the first time 2 weeks prior to the wrist pin failure, found 175psi across the board. 2.4 liter, Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons with properly degreed BC 280 camshafts.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Wrist pins break when they seize in their bores.....

 

[blackrosenova40]

Wiseco stated it was from "too much power" but all my pistons had cracks in them and I never looked until I seen this thread. Saw this thread, went and looked, and too my surprise, all in the exact same spot.

Wrist pins break when they seize in their bores.....

 

[Slippi84]

In the thread on dsmlink they did say this is a more common problem with stroker setups.

 

[lccynmbr13]

In the thread on dsmlink they did say this is a more common problem with stroker setups.

I did forget to mention that my pistons are stroker pistons. That is a critical point as the design is different. Were the rest of you running 2.0 or 2.3 pistons?

 

[blackrosenova40]

Any update on this?

I've got three motors in for freshen-ups at the shop now that had been running Wisecos. I intend to push the pistons out tomorrow and have a close look at them to see if they're cracked like you guys are seeing.

 

[Slippi84]

7500 miles, 500whp

Engine failure? Yes wrist pin cracked in half.

Compression? Checked compression for the first time 2 weeks prior to the wrist pin failure, found 175psi across the board. 2.4 liter, Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons with properly degreed BC 280 camshafts.

Seems to be a non 2.0 problem

 

[JacksonAuto]

Any update on this?

I got two of them apart yesterday and neither set shows any cracks. One engine was run with a GT30 on the street as a DD for 70k and the other with and FP Red and was auto x'd and run at track days for 3 years.

 

[99gst_racer]

I got two of them apart yesterday and neither set shows any cracks. One engine was run with a GT30 on the street as a DD for 70k and the other with and FP Red and was auto x'd and run at track days for 3 years.

Both 2.0L engines I assume?

I haven't had any problems with my standard Wisecos in my 2.0L, even flowing almost 70 lbs/min. But, I'll definitely inspect them closely next time I have the block out of the car.