My Terrible Experience With Wiseco

[lccynmbr13]

I just thought I'd let everyone in the community know about the terrible experience I've had with Wiseco before considering purchase of their pistons for future builds. My last motor was built with standard Wiseco stroker pistons. I made just over 500hp for 2 track passes and about 10-12000 miles at 380hp. I pulled my motor apart to inspect and upgrade some things and found that my piston skirts had hairline cracks in all 4 of the pistons (already a known issue with Wiseco's that I hadn't known about before I purchased them). I figured I'd call Wiseco and see what they had to say about it or if they would be able to work with me on a set of new Wiseco HD's to remedy the cracking issue. Over a month ago I spoke to a technician who said he would talk to his superior and get back to me with an answer... After a week I received no phone call. I tried to get ahold of someone again and was given the "high call volume leave a message" automation 3 times the following week on different days. The last call I left a message. A week went by and I did not recieve a call back. Finally I called Brian Nutter directly, and was directed to his voicemail. I proceeded to leave him a message explaining my situation as well as my month long struggle to try and get ahold of someone about my issue. It's been 4 days and I have yet to recieve a call. Today I ordered a new set of Ross Racing Pistons, and am pleased to say that when I called them to ask some questions about their product, I was able to reach a person directly and promptly have all of my questions thoroughly answered, and am satisfied in knowing that I'll be recieving a quality product backed by a company that offers excellent customer service. I will not ever recommend Wiseco pistons to anyone again, and even though the Wiseco HD is a superior piston to almost all right now, I will never have a set in any motor I run strictly due to their terrible customer service. I'm highly disappointed.

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[TSIfreek]

You should be happy with the rosses. I ran those in my last motor and had great success with them. This new motor im haveing built I went with the Mahles due to the tighter PTW clearance I can run and they are much lighter and are more of a street piston.

 

[spoonman]

I used to be along time supporter of Wiseco pistons, I have actually never had one fail during use. But I have pull multiple sets out of higher mileage DD engines and the skirts are usually bent/collapsed. This is due to the higher PTW clearance for these pistons and because some guys don't always let the engine heat up before use.


I am now a full Mahle supporter. The pistons are lighter, have a lower top compression ring, and can have tighter PTW tolerances due to the 4032 alloy. The piston skirts are shorter than most other pistons on the Mahles, at first you might think that would be bad but because the tighter tolerances it saves weight with out effecting durability.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I wouldn't necessarily blame the piston for the failure but there is no excuse for shoddy service. Sorry about your bad experience because they do produce a quality product.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I wouldn't necessarily blame the piston for the failure but there is no excuse for shoddy service. Sorry about your bad experience because they do produce a quality product.

It's definately a problem with the product, search the DSMLink forums regarding Wiseco skirt cracking. The pistons appear in perfect condition when inspected, perfect ringlands and tops, no signs of damage due to detonation, then you flip them upside down and look really hard at the skirts and sure as hell they're cracked, just before they curve toward the wrist pin. Most people on DSMLink are recommending no longer running Wiseco pistons unless running the HDs. This has been noticed by folks of all different power ranges.

In my case, PTW .0035" very conservative ignition map, and 11.5 AFR, with no knock.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I just bought standard HDs.

Now I am a little nervous. I was assured these were the ultimate piston, I hope my 550 wheel hp doesn't crack these babies.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I just bought standard HDs.

Now I am a little nervous. I was assured these were the ultimate piston, I hope my 550 wheel hp doesn't crack these babies.

I hope my post wasn't misleading. The Wiseco HD piston is a wicked piston I'm not claiming anything different. I'm talking about the standard Wiseco forged pistons, the NON HD version. No worries sir you have one of the best pistons money can buy.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I read a post Jake Montgomery(sp) Evileagle made on the talk board about the HD pistons being all different sizes back when he had them in 08. He said the guy on the phone said his mic was off a thousandth. I asked the vendor before giving the go ahead on the purchase and he said he does not know the specs and only wiseco would know, But he assured me his shop runs these in his 4g63s and never had a problem, and said these are good up to 1200hp. I am going to have them checked out before I install them even if they are brand new.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1881084&postcount=438
^Jakes post

 

[lccynmbr13]

I read a post Jake Montgomery(sp) Evileagle made on the talk board about the HD pistons being all different sizes back when he had them in 08. He said the guy on the phone said his mic was off a thousandth. I asked the vendor before giving the go ahead on the purchase and he said he does not know the specs and only wiseco would know, But he assured me his shop runs these in his 4g63s and never had a problem, and said these are good up to 1200hp. I am going to have them checked out before I install them even if they are brand new.

Well even if they are off by a couple thousandths (which they shouldn't be but sometimes things happen) you won't be having your block machined before you give them the pistons, and assuming your machinist takes the time to individually machine each cylinder to each individual piston (which you might request just in case) the PTW will be perfect regardless. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I have standard 85mm bore, if the pistons are what they should be I should be able to hone them myself and that is it. no machining required.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I have standard 85mm bore, if the pistons are what they should be I should be able to hone them myself and that is it. no machining required.

Just measure them and take a dial bore to your cylinders to be safe, you should be doing that anyway before you put a forged piston in the hole.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I will have to research this dial bore. When I rebuilt this engine I just honed it to remove the glaze and dropped in my 2g/1g combo.

 

[aero_sallee]

I've had something similar happen. I contacted Brian via email about a set of pistons that the skirts cracked in the exact same manner. Car ever made more than 350whp on a 2.4. Never experienced any detonation that a stock piston wouldn't have taken in stride, pistons look great except for the cracked skirt.

Contacted him about them, he was going to work with me and get me a replacement set for half price if I would return the cracked ones for inspection to verify that nothing was wrong( detonation etc) that killed them. He said give him my information, address, phone etc and he would get me an RMA so I could get them shipped.

I have sent that information 3 times and never gotten a response, this is after 4-5 emails back and forth before he requested that information. He was very nice, and helpful I think up until that.
All this started sometime back in FEB IIRC, would have to look at my emails.

I almost wonder if something happened and he isn't working there anymore?

 

[slowgsr]

This really really sucks!

I wish I knew this before I purchased my weisco and went with the HD or a CP, or ross piston etc.

I have a 2.0L build, s372, I was looking for 800+, and I knew in the back of my mind the weisco's were the weak link. I would have had no problem spending the money on something else but its all together! I really almost feel like swapping them out, but.. to do it properly.. its a huge taredown.

Im going to crank on it and see what happens. If she runs good and holds, so be it, if I experience any issues. Ill deal with it then. Im going to set my goals at about 700ish.

Im at 4 thous P2W, block machined/bored with torque plate, everything is perfect spec, and ill be sure to let it fully warm up before I beat on it. See how it holds up!

If all luck ill just have a set of junk pistons with some hairline cracks in the skirts when I pull it apart at the end of the season. Hopefully no catastrophic failure. I mean.. Ive got another good shortblock.. but I just don't want to damage the head. I think I would start to see severe blowby or.. hear things, before anything catastrophic.

I know theres guys out there making 700+ on std weiscos (non hd), Id like to hear their stories.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

wow, i know alex of dogbox racing would only use wiseco in his mid to low 9sec street laser, and the car had a million passes on it. I also use wisecos in my stroker engine and that has about 12,000mi on it and i never had any problems. This is odd

 

[lccynmbr13]

wow, i know alex of dogbox racing would only use wiseco in his mid to low 9sec street laser, and the car had a million passes on it. I also use wisecos in my stroker engine and that has about 12,000mi on it and i never had any problems. This is odd

I never had any problems with mine either, until I took them out and inspected them. Have you ever pulled those pistons out to have a look? Personally regardless of performance, cracking is a problem to me, even if it wasn't symptomatic. For 500 dollars I expect a piston to hold up to the beating it's designed for without defect.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

I never had any problems with mine either, until I took them out and inspected them. Have you ever pulled those pistons out to have a look? Personally regardless of performance, cracking is a problem to me, even if it wasn't symptomatic. For 500 dollars I expect a piston to hold up to the beating it's designed for without defect.

I agree with you, it is a problem. Now i feel that my motor is a ticking timebomb, i guess i better get started on another motor.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I agree with you, it is a problem. Now i feel that my motor is a ticking timebomb, i guess i better get started on another motor.

As I said before I haven't heard of one of them actually coming apart yet so I wouldn't get to scared of that. I just wouldn't reuse them yano? I wish more people would post on this thread with their experiences with them so we could find out if any of them actually are coming apart. Problem is I don't think very many people actually take the time to thoroughly inspect them for hairline cracks because they aren't expected. I almost missed them on mine my buddy pointed them out to me and even still I had to use a flashlight and put them right under my nose to see them.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I've been reluctant to post again so as not to further fuel the fire but I feel it must be pointed out that this type of damage is typically the result of insufficient pin bore clearance. Incorrect piston-to-wall clearance would present itself as damage to the skirts, not the pin bosses. There are instances where extremely high piston speeds will cause the pin bores to crack but that is typically on big-inch V8's or high revving engines. Even with 2.3L 4G63's we've never seen cracking around the pin bores if the pins had proper clearance.

 

[lccynmbr13]

I've been reluctant to post again so as not to further fuel the fire but I feel it must be pointed out that this type of damage is typically the result of insufficient pin bore clearance. Incorrect piston-to-wall clearance would present itself as damage to the skirts, not the pin bosses. There are instances where extremely high piston speeds will cause the pin bores to crack but that is typically on big-inch V8's or high revving engines. Even with 2.3L 4G63's we've never seen cracking around the pin bores if the pins had proper clearance.

The pin bosses are perfectly fine though, and I personally checked the piston to wall clearance when I pulled the motor apart to verify my builders specs and it was .004" which is within the normal range for these pistons. I'm attaching a picture this time for those that have viewed this thread and don't exactly know what is being discussed. (Not directing that at you Jackson I'm talking about the newbies that haven't even seen a piston before).

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[JacksonAuto]

Ahhhhh ok that's a different animal there. Based on the description, I was under the impression that the cracks were further inward. I tried to view the thread over on DSMlink but didn't want to register.

 

[aero_sallee]

That is exactly the same cracking that I experienced. I'll try and get some pictures to add to the thread.

 

[slow4g6392tsi]

That sucks man. Good luck with your new setup. I remember Andre telling me about this when I brought him my pistons but the way he explained it it was kinda hit or miss with that problem.

 

[lccynmbr13]

That sucks man. Good luck with your new setup. I remember Andre telling me about this when I brought him my pistons but the way he explained it it was kinda hit or miss with that problem.

I'm getting the feeling it's less hit and miss and more of people not knowing what to look for. The movement on DSMLink at this point is stay away from wisecos unless they're 1400 HDs.

 

[Slippi84]

I'm getting the feeling it's less hit and miss and more of people not knowing what to look for. The movement on DSMLink at this point is stay away from wisecos unless they're 1400 HDs.

No it's not what thread are you looking at that is saying regular Wiseco pistons are bad? I have had two sets of regular Wiseco pistons in two different dsm engines(4g63 &420a) and I'm building my talon now with the HDs and I can say that I have never had any issues with any of my pistons and two that any time I called them they were there and willing to answer my questions. If you don't let your car warm up before going out and beating on it with any forged piston your asking for trouble period.