My idle afr's are aroun 16.3, any thoughts??

[EclipticalGS]

Yeah so I completely put my girls talon all back together and although im combating a small oil leak..(either because I only used copper spray on the pan gasket, or because the oil was a tad over filled.),

I noticed while idleing in her car while I was getting everything all set-up, the afr's hovered around 16-16.5 while just idling only (it shot up to 17 but i killed it immediately), I havent reved it or done anything but idling yet so does anyone have any thoughts??

It has a wally 190 in it, stock injectors, big 16g, catch-can (with one 1/2 hose to intake), stock fpr, and base timing set to 5* seeing 8* @ normal idle (non-base time), and a brand new AEM UEGO installed 36" away from O2, stock cams, and reading -20in of vacuum..

Anyone have any ideas?? I know my biss screw needs to be adjusted as of now but i moved it in and out until it had the best idle, afr's werent affected by this at all.

Also my girls FPR was accidentally powder-coated....

Edit: I jsut realised I cant even hear the fuel pump going???! I know it's working because after priming the engine from a complete dry rebuild, fuel made its way to the filter and rail, but wtf I cant hear the whine anymore, I cant even hear it turn on with key.

 

[doubleclutch99]

sounds like its getting unmetered air . ie vaccum leak maybe? try a boost leak test . just a thought

 

[EclipticalGS]

well I did a boost leak test and pulled up no leaks, (a boost leak usually makes you run rich though).

Then i did a small 5psi test just right into my catchan hose (that runs to the intake pipe) and it pressurized and leaked out of my dipstick..I have a catchcan that I tigged up, pressure tested it, installed it with two -an hoses on top of the valvecover, and plugged my old pcv/breather ports..

So the only un-metered air my intake pipe should pull would be my dipstick (vacuum wise) and there were no boost leaks...

She wants to try autocross this summer so my girl would be upset if she cant put some miles on it.
*shrug*

 

[kidtsi]

exhaust leak before the wideband sensor.

 

[jimbob_843]

Boost leak test with a higher psi 20-30, recirc your bov if not already done so, Check resistance on isc motor, and check your cold start temp sensor. Not sure of actual name off hand. Also might be a bad o2, i had same problems and thats what it was.

 

[EclipticalGS]

yeah, Ive got a brand new exhaust mani gasket, turbo gasket, 02 housing gasket, and a 3" DP pipe on the car, Ive got everything torqued to spec but for some reason where the 02 housing meets the DP I couldn't really get anything tighter than about 25 ft lbs before the 2 bolts started to seem like they were stretching rather than torqueing...I know those bolts are supposed to be like 42 ft/lbs?? but it seems theres a really thin washer on the bolts thats starting to get mangled the more i turn those bolts...

Also I did not visually see any ehxaust leaks near there because I was looking around like a hawk, nor did I hear one..

Ill get those tight though...

Boost leak test with a higher psi 20-30, recirc your bov if not already done so, Check resistance on isc motor, and check your cold start temp sensor. Not sure of actual name off hand. Also might be a bad o2, i had same problems and thats what it was.

Boost leak @ 25 psi already, bov is always recirc, isc motor hasnt changed since i took the IM out, coolant temp sensor is brand new and that would cause my car to run in openloop which is richer..Also my o2 sensor voltage is correct, and im currently throwing no codes and never have.

...Idk.

 

[doubleclutch99]

well I did a boost leak test and pulled up no leaks, (a boost leak usually makes you run rich though).

Then i did a small 5psi test just right into my catchan hose (that runs to the intake pipe) and it pressurized and leaked out of my dipstick..I have a catchcan that I tigged up, pressure tested it, installed it with two -an hoses on top of the valvecover, and plugged my old pcv/breather ports..

So the only un-metered air my intake pipe should pull would be my dipstick (vacuum wise) and there were no boost leaks...

She wants to try autocross this summer so my girl would be upset if she cant put some miles on it.
*shrug*

correct but a boost leak in a vaccum state behind the maf will let in unmetered air causing a lean condition. that's what i was getting at. how much vaccum are you pulling?

 

[spawn87]

get that boost leak done first before trying anything else.

5psi is not even enough to hear a leak.

are you sure your boost gauge is still working right? 20vac on idle seems to much IMO i only get 15 put im close to sea level so idk what is normal where your at.

and as for the high readings if you turned the car off right away you didnt give the wideband time to warm up.

my 2 cents.

 

[tazndrew04]

When you start the car do the lines go all the way across the wideband and than go to 14.8 like a calibrated o2 sensor should on the widebabnd?

 

[EclipticalGS]

I already did do a boost leak test at 25 psi through the system (im not a stranger to those at all)...I then did the 5psi test through just my catchcan set-up/valvecover by itself, hope that clears anything up..

I had no leaks on the boost leak test at 25psi, and no leaks (other than my dipstick) when going through my catchcan to valvecover by itself. (This was to ensure my an- fittings were tight and sealed..and they all were).

When i key to the on position my wideband will read 14.9, when I turn the car on, it'll stay @ 14.7 for about 10 seconds then start to rise up to 16-17...

I am at 5* base timing, which is around 8* at normal idle, all sensors are new in the car.

Im pulling -20 vacuum which is very normal in MI with stock cams, hell even -21 would be normal.

Idle is 800rpms on the nose, doesnt seem to be running rough at all, no CEL's..

Ill fix the small oil leak and see if the wideband reads 15-16 crusing and 10.9 WOT like it should. If so, I must have an exhaust leak before wideband just enough to pull some fresh air in.

correct but a boost leak in a vaccum state behind the maf will let in unmetered air causing a lean condition. that's what i was getting at. how much vaccum are you pulling?

Ok yeah thats right, any boost leak @ idle whether be in the IC piping or Intake pipe will cause a lean condition, but my BLT @ 25psi yeilded no leaks.

The BLT through my Catchcan also yeilded no leaks.

PUlling -20 vacuum @ 8* normal idle, 5* base timing. Idle is strong, a small rev takes it back to 800 no lower...Front 02 and coolant temp sensor are new bosch.

Ive ruled out my FPR that accidentally got powdercoated because if anything was damaged it would be dumping fuel, and if there was say a leak on the vac. line that goes to the FPR, that would throw lower vac readings to the fpr making it dump more fuel.

One thing im worried about is I used to hear the Wally 190 turn on..I also used to hear the audible whine the whole time in the car. Now I dont even hear it turn on, its obviously got to be working because it got fuel to my empty filter and rail but I dont hear the pump no more.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

get that boost leak done first before trying anything else.

5psi is not even enough to hear a leak.

are you sure your boost gauge is still working right? 20vac on idle seems to much IMO i only get 15 put im close to sea level so idk what is normal where your at.

and as for the high readings if you turned the car off right away you didnt give the wideband time to warm up.

my 2 cents.

Normal vacuum at sea level is not 15. If your car isn't stock or has mods that would change the idle vacuum then that could be the cause but there's nothing wrong with 20 for vac. Normal, at sea level would be 18-22.

 

[Army4g63]

First, what wideband are you running? LC-1? AEM UEGO?

 

[EclipticalGS]

Yeah im receiving all the right readings and the car is acting normal...I copper sprayed all my exhaust gaskets and everything but my DP to O2 is tightened to spec., but it seems like the bolts mating my DP and O2 wont get tighter than 25 ft/lbs they feel like they are either stretching, or the little crush washer up there is getting mangled beyond belief...What are those supposed to be at? 42 ft/lbs or something??

First, what wideband are you running? LC-1? AEM UEGO?

Dude, read the first post. Its an AEM UEGO as stated in the first post.

 

[Army4g63]

Hmmmm must have missed that

 

[EclipticalGS]

Ok, well now for some reason when I key on to the ON position (not starting the car) the Wideband is showing 14.9 for a couple seconds then goes up by itself and maxes out to (---)...Then a couple times in a row after turning the key to the on position the wideband will just show (---) without even showing 14.9 in the first place??

I have my wideband powered by the secondary output on the Greddy turbo timer, and grounded along with the Greddy turbo timer..I also noticed that when I tried to use the Greddy turbo timer with 20 seconds, the car shut off at 17 seconds?? So if my turbo timer isnt working right, and thats powering my Wideband, can I assume the issue lies in the wiring somehow?!

 

[doubleclutch99]

you could wire it into another positive source to see if it acts any different.

 

[gravityforce]

Ok, well now for some reason when I key on to the ON position (not starting the car) the Wideband is showing 14.9 for a couple seconds then goes up by itself and maxes out to (---)...Then a couple times in a row after turning the key to the on position the wideband will just show (---) without even showing 14.9 in the first place??

I have my wideband powered by the secondary output on the Greddy turbo timer, and grounded along with the Greddy turbo timer..I also noticed that when I tried to use the Greddy turbo timer with 20 seconds, the car shut off at 17 seconds?? So if my turbo timer isnt working right, and thats powering my Wideband, can I assume the issue lies in the wiring somehow?!

Id say give it a different or its own power source and see what happens

 

[EclipticalGS]

The thing is, is I remember the turbo timer working until i installed the aem uego
...Anyone have another spot they recommend for the wideband?? Just to give it its own source.

Id use the cig lighter but it seems everytime thats unplugged, my obd 2 scanner doesnt work?

EDIT: Well i spliced it into the cig lighter, and when i put the key to the on position, the wideband sits at 14.9..then within ten seconds it starts moving up until (---)..Is that normal with just the key in the on position without the car started? It seems like it'll sit at 14.9 to calibrate and then start moving to (---) because it isnt seeing any exhaust...I guess thats normal right?

 

[doubleclutch99]

that's what mine does

 

[EclipticalGS]

Ok well ill get those o2 to DP bolts tighter and report back..
Thanks

 

[boostforfun]

Im pulling -20 vacuum which is very normal in MI with stock cams, hell even -21 would be normal.

Yeah, stock cam cars pull 19-20 here in Nebraska/Iowa

 

[EclipticalGS]

I may have found the problem but not 100%, I tried to tighten the 02 housing/DP bolts and what do you know, one of them was stripped so im sure there was a leak there because i could turn that bolt with a 3/8 ratchet and it would spin and spin....So i guess MAP gas for 5-10 minutes and try to get it off... So odd, the bolts looked really good and threads were very clean..I just dont get it...

Downpipe to O2 housing, 35ft/lbs in the FSM...My nut didnt make it to 20...

 

[spawn87]

Normal vacuum at sea level is not 15. If your car isn't stock or has mods that would change the idle vacuum then that could be the cause but there's nothing wrong with 20 for vac. Normal, at sea level would be 18-22.

as a matter in fact i am running a build motor now so that explains it thanx for that info