Mobil 1 synthetic 0W-40 for winter is too thin for my car?

[talontsiboy24]

I have a 97 auto gsx with 129k miles on stock internals with moderate mods and i just switched to Mobil 1 syn 0w-40 since its winter out here in chicago and temps can range now from low 20s to negative 20...

im not gonna be doin any racing until spring/summer time comes since i know that 0w-40 aint gonna be protecting to well when goin up to 7k rpms so for now with this oil the highest ill go 4000rpms should the be ok?

but come spring.summer ill switch back to 15w-50 since thats what always been used in the car...

i switched because i get alot of knock on a super cold starts and i know thats real bad for the motor now that i switched to 0w-40 i get no knock but the bad about it is my small oil leaks started to show i guess that thick oil was hiding them but at least now i know what i need to replace.

 

[knochgoon24]

10w-30 is actually more like a 40 weight when cold...10+30=40
5w-30 is more like a 35 weight when cold...5+30=35

I would suggest Bobistheoilguy if you are interested in oil and have no life.

Off the Amsoil site:

Now if you look at the table labeled Winter or "W" Grades, you can get valuable information on how the W or winter grade viscosities are measured. Basically, as shown by the chart, when the oil is reduced to a colder temperature it is measured for performance factors. If it performs like a SAE 0 motor oil at the colder temperature, then it will receive the SAE 0W viscosity grade. Consequently, if the motor oil performs like a SAE 20 motor oil at the reduced temperatures, then it will be a SAE 20W motor oil.

 

[talontsiboy24]

10w-30 is actually more like a 40 weight when cold...10+30=40
5w-30 is more like a 35 weight when cold...5+30=35

I would suggest Bobistheoilguy if you are interested in oil and have no life.

Yea because oil gets thicker in the cold.

Last winter, I finally got an oil pressure gauge installed in my car. At this point, I had done a BSE, but hadn't ported the OFH. When cold start ups would max the gauge (120psi) with 10w-30 when it was below freezing. So I switched to a 0w-30. It dropped that high oil pressure down to something a bit more manageable (90psi cold), while the warm operating pressure was practically the same. Porting the OFH helped drop hot and cold oil pressure lower, but switching the cold weight on the oil helped drop the cold down where it needed to be.

I eventually tried running a 0w-20 in the dead of winter last year. It worked better with the unported OFH when cold (about 85psi), but thinned out too much and my oil pressure was too low at idle. Especially once the oil started getting some wear.

There's some real world numbers...

Like said before, the first numbers is how it acts when cold. (10w-xx acts like SAE 10 when cold), and the second numbers are how it acts when hot (xxw-30 acts like SAE 30 when hot).

I suggest reading this Motor Oil Viscosity Grades Explained in Layman's Terms
It's been posted several times already.

Personally I run:
Full Synthetic 10w-30 once temperatures are above freezing in the morning (April to November)
Full Synthetic 0w-30 when it starts getting colder (Late November- Early April).

I'll be changing my oil when I'm home over Christmas 0w-30 will be going in.

Like i said before mobil 1 15w-50 in winter at cold startups made my motor knock pretty bad and sometimes it would crank but wouldnt start thats how horrible that was for me..

Now that i switched to 0w-40 i get no knock and my oil pressure doesnt rise so damn high anymore and my car starts....im not gonna use 30 because i have 129k miles on my motor but im on stock internals so i want all the protection i can get for now plus im running 20lbs of boost so ill stick with 40...

Come spring/summer time im gonna run 10w-40 that thick stuff is just horrible and gets dirty before 3k miles.

 

[TSIfreek]

Synthetic oil to me stays cleaner then with regular oil would look at 3k miles but i still always changed mine before 3k when i was running 15w-50 syn because it gets dirty as hell even though its synthetic i read that thicker oil needs to be changed more often... so will see how the 0w-40 looks when i get near 3k.

Fully Synthetic
0W-30
0W-40
5W-40
Characteristics:
Fuel economy savings
Enhances engine performance and power
Ensures engine is protected from wear and deposit build-up
Ensures good cold starting and quick circulation in freezing temperatures
Gets to moving parts of the engine quickly

Dont worry about how it looks at 3k just keep it in there all season. You may need to add a little oil here or there that will keep the rest of the oil feeling refreshed to say. Just check it every 500 miles to see what the motor is doing with it. Synthetics today can go 10,000 miles without change.

 

[knochgoon24]

10w-30 is actually more like a 40 weight when cold...10+30=40
5w-30 is more like a 35 weight when cold...5+30=35

I would suggest Bobistheoilguy if you are interested in oil and have no life.

Yea because oil gets thicker in the cold.

But that's still not how the ratings work.
Each number in the rating has it's one meaning, separate from the other. NO ADDITION.

Ok. I'll try to explain this.

Oil without additives (single grade oil) is judged against a standard. That's how they get the SAE 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 ratings. They say "At 212°F, an oil that is this thick receives and SAE rating of xx."

Multi-grade oil has additives in it that make it react differently to temperature variations than pure oil. If they were to only tell you that the oil is SAE 30, that would only tell you how it acts when hot. And that's actually how the test multi-grade oils. They heat them to 212°F, do a test, and compare the results to the oil standard. If it's as thick as pure SAE 30 oil when hot, then it gets the "30" part of the rating.

BUT, they also test these oils when they are cold. And since they have additives in them to keep them from thickening, they act like a different weight oil. THEY COMPARE HOW THE COLD MULTI-GRADE OIL COMPARES TO A COLD SINGLE GRADE OIL, and give it a second rating. Since this is a cold rating, the designate this second rating with a 'W', for winter; the only time when the cold rating really matters.

So, a 10w-30 multi-grade oil (both conventional and synthetic) has the viscosity of an hot SAE 30 oil when hot, and the viscosity of a cold SAE 10 oil when cold.


You get something like this when you graph the viscosities.

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Notice that when cold, both 5w oils start from the same viscosity, and when hot, both the oils ending in 30 have the same viscosity.

There's no adding. No fancy math.

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(There are some variations because each rating is a range, but for the most part, they can be assumed to be finite values.)
The green line is a 0w-10 oil developed by Honda.

 

[rich3389]

Off the Amsoil site:

Yes it will PERFORM Like a 0W when cold, that doesn't mean that it IS a 0 weight!

 

[knochgoon24]

Yes it will PERFORM Like a 0W when cold, that doesn't mean that it IS a 0 weight!

Exactly... maybe.

Cold 0W-30 acts like a cold 0 weight.
Hot 0W-30 acts like a hot 30 weight.

I think we agree there, and I think we're arguing the same point.
But I'm finally done with finals, and feel like explaining more.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oil is graded on an standard called the SAE J300.

Created in 1911 by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), this standard was created to help categorize motor oils. When this was created, there was only 5 standards (10, 20, 30, 40, and 50) and none of them were the winter standards (with the W). Most cars were not driven during the winter because roads were impassable for them. There was no need for a winter grading. All these tests were done with the oil at 100°C.

As the years went on, the SAE eventually added two more gradings (5 and 60). Because of the new technology in cars, they were soon able to be used in the winter. It was realized that a cold, or winter designation was needed to help describe the flow characteristics of the oil during a cold winter start. So they added cold testing standards, done at temperatures between (-35°C and -10°C). These grades became the W grades (0W, 5W, 10W, 20W, and 25W).

As far as I've found, the most recent SAE J300 standard is this:

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When an oil is graded, it is tested both hot and cold. It gets it's hot rating based on it's viscosity at 100°C. There is a minimum viscosity for each weight. It gets its rated weight at the highest minimum value it exceeds.

The cold tests are performed at those colder temperatures. Here, each weight has a set maximum viscosity the oil can have to receive that weight rating. The oil is classified based on the lowest weight standard it's viscosity values stays under.

A single grade 20 oil is 1700 times thicker when at -15°C than it is at 100°C!

All 0W-xx oils can be expected to have generally the same viscosity near -35°C and all xW-30 oil can be expected to have generally the same viscosity near 100°C.


So, what does this mean?

When winter comes, you should keep the hot rating of your oil the same, but drop the cold rating as needed to get protection you need on cold starts. A 0W oil is still going to be plenty thick enough when cold to protect your engine. A lower number means easier cold starts, and faster lubrication. Both are good.


So why don't we just use 0W oils all year?

Multi-grade oils have viscosity improvers (VIs) that keep the oil thin when cold. Oil has paraffin wax in it, and as the oil gets colder, these molecules clump together and increase the viscosity. VIs help keep these molecules from clumping as the temperature drops. The problem is that over time these VIs start to break down and your oil "wears out".

The larger the gap between the two ratings, the more VIs are needed. The more VIs, the faster your oil tends to wear out.

Heat is the enemy of oil. In nice weather I beat on my car. The oil gets hot. Even though I run a full synthetic, I still change it religiously every 3000 miles. The less VIs, the better the oil holds up. That's why you use the higher W rated oils in the summer. Better resistance to breaking down from heat. In the winter I don't beat in my car so much. I make the trade off to have an oil that can't take quite the abuse of racing all day, for the benefit of better cold protection and starts.

Fully synthetic oils tend to have less paraffin wax in them than dino oil, so they don't need as many VIs in them. They hold up to the heat better, for longer. That's why they have all those high mileage full synthetics. Oil change intervals aren't set because the oil gets dirty, they're set because of the rate at which the additives break down, among other things.

That's why in the winter, I run a 0W-30 and in the summer, I run a 10W-30. I still change my oil every 3000 miles in the winter.

 

[thecman02]

Dont worry about how it looks at 3k just keep it in there all season. You may need to add a little oil here or there that will keep the rest of the oil feeling refreshed to say. Just check it every 500 miles to see what the motor is doing with it. Synthetics today can go 10,000 miles without change.

That is bad advice. I wouldn't take a synthetic that far on a high performance engine without doing a UOA to make sure the oil is still in good condition. I just read a review of a 1.8t jetta with 20,000 that was going 10,000 that long on an oil change and the oil was borderline bad. On older cars the oil usually gets more contaminated and on more severe use engines like our car. Most UOA show in our engine that most top shelf synthetics shouldn't go farther then 7500. I only go to 6000 because I like having a a factor of safety. In some cases synthetics can go 10,000 even 15,000 but our car is not one of those cases.

 

[rich3389]

0w-40 will be good for you, it will flow nicely on startup and also be nice and thick when hot.

In my opinion a 50 weight oil is to heavy for a stock DSM engine...

 

[talontsiboy24]

That is bad advice. I wouldn't take a synthetic that far on a high performance engine without doing a UOA to make sure the oil is still in good condition. I just read a review of a 1.8t jetta with 20,000 that was going 10,000 that long on an oil change and the oil was borderline bad. On older cars the oil usually gets more contaminated and on more severe use engines like our car. Most UOA show in our engine that most top shelf synthetics shouldn't go farther then 7500. I only go to 6000 because I like having a a factor of safety. In some cases synthetics can go 10,000 even 15,000 but our car is not one of those cases.

Well like i said when i was using synthetic mobil 1 15w-50 i had to have it changed before 3k miles...it got so dirty before 3k but i heard thicker oils like that have to be changed more often...so will see how this 0w-40 looks when im getting close to 3k i will keep you guys updated.

0w-40 will be good for you, it will flow nicely on startup and also be nice and thick when hot.

In my opinion a 50 weight oil is to heavy for a stock DSM engine...

Yea but DO NOT use 0w oils if u have leaks because that thin stuff will be showing quick! ever since i switched to 0w-40 for winter i noticed 2 of my valve cover screws have oil around it and i never saw any oil with the thicker 15w-50 but at least now i know where my leaks are.

 

[donniekak]

All of this oil talk has got me excited. I went out to the garage and changed my penzoil platinum. About 1500 miles, it was trashed. I really beat on my cars, well my dsm. The taurus and explorer have an easier time. I bet if they ran on alcohol and were boosted to 27 psi, i'd dog them out to. I have no set interval, when the oil is no longer honey colored, it's time for a change. Sometimes one good night at the track will do it. Sometimes i get up to about 3,000 miles, but that is rare the way i drive my car. I'm actually surprised i haven't broke anything so far. I have about 4,500 on a complete engine/trans rebuild. This is about the 6th, or 7th change since the build. Next, change my tortured trans oil.

 

[knochgoon24]

Yea but DO NOT use 0w oils if u have leaks because that thin stuff will be showing quick! ever since i switched to 0w-40 for winter i noticed 2 of my valve cover screws have oil around it and i never saw any oil with the thicker 15w-50 but at least now i know where my leaks are.

It's not from it being a 0W oil. If anything, it's because of the switch from the 50 to 40.

Still, if you're leaking oil out somewhere with a 40 weight oil, you have problems.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

I have been doing some research on oil, I talked to mitsu and they told me 10w-30 but I got advice from another shop and they recommended 20w-50. I trust there advice. I know from my experince so far i cant tell the difference in how the car feels. I used 10w-40 at one point in time and the car felt very sluggish. I guess this may be different because I live in Texas and where I am doesnt really suffer from -5 type temps the coldest its been so far is 30.

 

[DSM1G90]

and they recommended 20w-50. I trust their advice.

Odd...Mitsu told you to use the recommended 10w30, yet you trust the advice of this aftermarket shop to use 20w/50 which is like molasses in the block and doesn't flow as quickly as 10w/30....and you drive a Mitsu which you should be listening to what Mitsu tells you....since Mitsu BUILT the FLIPPING CAR , not that aftermarket shop who wants your money!

...I don't see any common sense here.

-DSM

 

[rarson]

I agree with DSM1G90, that oil is too viscous to use. I use 0W-30 in my car, since the winter weight allows the oil to flow a LOT better when the engine is cold, one of the most critical times of engine operation (after your car has been sitting and all the oil has drained back into the pan). Even in a warm climate like Texas, the oil will have the viscosity of the winter weight and provide faster lubrication at start-up.

Some oils provide better wear resistance and reduced burn off despite having a lower viscosity rating. All a viscosity rating tells you is the oil's resistance to flow; it says nothing of the oil's ability to reduce wear. Why would a person necessarily assume that it's a good thing to have a more viscous oil in their engine? If the oil is too viscous, it won't circulate adequately.

I usually buy Amsoil because in every test I've seen, it performs better than other brands, but Mobil1 full synthetic isn't a bad second option. If I can't find either of those, then I'll use Royal Purple.

 

[DSM1G90]

If I can't find either of those, then I'll use Royal Purple.

(and with the snow and cold you folks there in MD are getting, you need all the help you can get...)

Then, best keep in touch with your AMSOIL supplier, or go online at the AMSOIL link AMSOIL - Synthetic Oil, Motor and Engine Oil, Lubricants, Air Filters, Oil Filters and Greases and find a supplier in your area. Plus, you can order your supplies directly online and have the products shipped to you.

I have three suppliers here in my town that I keep in contact with for AMSOIL products that I use.

-DSM

 

[wolfie359]

Its nicer on engines to run a substantially thinner oil for winter times if you do a lot of cold starts and not too many long road trips. I'm running an oil temp gauge and oil pressure gauge. They work great to keep an eye on what exactly is going on with your oil. Start running too hot of oil, run something thicker or different brand or something. I'm a big mobile on full synth fan... I actually run full synth 5w-30 in my turboed 420a. I just always be really nice to it until the oil hits 100F+ then I know I'm getting proper lube everywhere and things are flowing the way they should be. Us 420a guys gotta be careful because odds are is we're running really thin restrictors on our aftermarket turbos.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

Well it was F.I.S.T racing that told me that they use 20w-50 so I do trust that. And i know that its like paste but if they use it than I wont really question them. And after the car warms up it thins out a lot. I just start the car and let it warm up for a bit. Also my gf car spun a bearing using 10w-30 when it was 65 at night some time last week. SO I am all for the thinker oil.


Oh and mitsu did recommend 10w-30 but they also couldn't figure out for the longest time what caused crank walk so I think the dealer doesn't know everything

 

[rarson]

(and with the snow and cold you folks there in MD are getting, you need all the help you can get...)

Tell me about it!

And after the car warms up it thins out a lot.

And before it does, you're getting inadequate lubrication. Most engine wear actually occurs while your engine is warming up.

Also my gf car spun a bearing using 10w-30 when it was 65 at night some time last week. SO I am all for the thinker oil.

So? Plenty of people have wiped bearings for numerous reasons. I've been using 0W-30 in my car for almost 10 years now, without any problems. Maybe your girlfriend just uses shitty oil.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

I usually buy Amsoil because in every test I've seen, it performs better than other brands

That sounds like a commercial. What tests are you talking about, that you've witnessed? Just a curious question, no bashing. I'm just a Valvoline guy, but what do I know, my cars a hunk of trash.

 

[rarson]

I mean studies that I've read about. I haven't witnessed any actual tests, but I have spent hours and hours on the internet trying to learn as much about oil as possible.

Yeah, it does sound like a commercial now that I reread it, but I didn't mean it that way. I usually don't recommend specific products unless I feel they are truly great. Amsoil is some great stuff.

 

[Nati0nalxCrisis]

Haha no I know what your saying, I was just playing around with you a little bit. They always have commercials, and websites and stuff that are like "Studies have shown". That kinda thing. I believe you though, amsoil seems like some quality stuff.


:Edit:
And not to mention, if your running it on an 11's car it must be quality enough to suit "most" peoples needs.