General Moates ECU Tuning

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

Good Morning,

I've been away from the forum for about a year or so and I'm back but still very much a newbie.

My '90 Eagle Talon TSi AWD came with a Moates Ostrich 2.0 and when it died, I replaced it with the same Moates Ostrich 2.0. I was too new to ECU tuning at the time but was able to tune the car into a stable and driveable state. I ended up selling the car to my brother a year or so ago.

Long story short - that didn't work out too well and the '90 Eagle Talon is mine again.

I would prefer to keep the Ostrich 2.0 and not go the ECMLink route - at least for the time being. I'm seeing ECMLink V3 (DSM) listed at $545 at ecmtuning.com but would prefer to tune this ECU with the Ostrich 2.0.

I can get the car driveable by using Tuner Pro and EmUtility to modify a base DSMStockE931.bin file. I've modified the fuel injector size (950cc) and then tweaked deadtime until I had a stable idle. This has worked as far as making the car driveable (cannot kick in turbo because then she stutters and dies).

When I tried to sell the car a year or so ago, all I got were earfulls of "Moates is old, I'll need to spend $X,000 to properly update to ECMLink". Well, the car is worth more to me as-is then having buyers talk down price based on Ostrich versus ECMLink.

But I would like to learn more as far as proper tuning.
Any suggestions are welcome!

I did find this thread (next line) as I was typing out my newbie intro, so this might get me somewhere but I highly welcome whatever advice that is offered.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/basics-of-tunerpro-how-to.450153/

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

I had a Moates Ostrich for a while on a 2g. I can tell you from experience that this is probably not the best place for help with Ostrich as most people if not everyone here will either overlook any post regarding it or just tell you to spring for DSMLink and say that Ostrich is not worth your time even though they have never used it.

These people would however be correct.

The difference is literally night and day, so much so that I wish I had just bought DSMLink in the first place and spent the money I spent on an Ostrich elsewhere. I have found though that the best place for information on Ostrich in a DSM was a yahoo group. I don't recall exactly what the name of it was but that information alone should hopefully point you in the right direction.

It was years ago but I remember that the group was mainly focused on 1Gs.

 

[4wsaddict]

Had Ostrich running Tunerpro RT and finally ditched it. Most sites that had information have disappeared and jackal/werewolf is no more. The data pids and data logging on Tunerpro were lacking but I was able to get by if I used a Palmlogger. You can get by but it is a hassle.

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

Okay, at least hearing from people that actually used an Ostrich is better than hearing from prospected buyers just trying to talk down a fair-and-reasonable ask-price.

Can somebody detail the steps involved in upgrading my '90 Talon from a Moates Ostrich setup to an ECMLink setup? I am technically savvy and have restored carbureted engines, but the ECMLink route is new to me.

 

[TCB91GSX]

I purchased a car with an Ostrich, it was hitting fuel cut at 15 PSI.. I reached out on here and received no help, it’s understandable as no one uses it. I did have logging capabilities with it using Tuner Pro and an ALDL cable, actually still have the cable set up if you are interested. Think they are relatively easy to make as well...

One thing that really got me was I do not think my WB was reading the same as in my log and although that happens in DSMLink, it’s easier to correct.

You do have MAF comp tables in Tuner Pro that you can adjust, but they aren’t on a plotted graph like DSMLink is.. You have to do a little more math/computing when adjusting it. The PO created a macro that runs in Tuner Pro which basically tracks your log while comparing it to your fuel tables, I didn’t quite grasp the concept when he first showed me a week after I bought the car.. I understand it a lot more now.
Regardless, I made the jump and switched to DSMLink. I’m happy I did, the initial investment is steep but the peace of mind ROI is ten fold, my car runs tremendously better and I actually can follow what’s going on relatively easy...and now I have a forum of people that are willing to look at logs etc.

For someone to create Tuner Pro is ingenious, I think it can be very useful but the learning curve was too steep for me to care for it..

Lastly,
If you are set on Tuner Pro/Moates Ostrich, shoot me your email in a PM and I’ll send you all files related to Tuner Pro.. it may be helpful to compare bin files etc etc.

Plug and play. REALLY easy. I ended up getting a new ECU with the DSMLink chip in it so it was a matter of swapping ECU’s and plugging in the provided cable into the diag port on the drivers kick panel.

If you already have a Moates Ostrich, that means your ECU is socketed, therefore you would just pop the cover off, very carefully and gently remove the Ostrich cable and pop the DSMLink chip in, close it back up and plug it in.

From there, you set your parameters aka your fuel/timing tables, injector size, MAF, wideband etc. It is all on a menu in the left side of the screen in DSMLink.

Under the tuning section on this forum is a tuning tips thread, in there @v8s_are_slow has posted some valuable YouTube videos that really helped me get started in DSMLink, he does a good job explaining set up and some simple tuning.

 

[thebrownman1]

I used the Ostrich for years. I still have some decent XDFs and BINs to get you going. PM me.

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

I'm assuming since your running a Moates Ostrich which is an EPROM emulator that your ECU is already socketed. You pull the ECU, open it up, and carefully swap the Ostrich cable for the ECMLink chip (that Ostrich cable can really be stuck in there if it has been a while). From there you plug the provided ECMLink cable into your vehicles diagnostic port and go about connecting and configuring.

It may be a bit overwhelming at first with all the stuffs that you are able to do with it but if you read the ECMLink wiki while it's in shipping like an automotive bible you should be ready when it arrives.

Oh and don't worry if there are connectivity issues at first. It's not uncommon at all with ECMLink and generally just means that you need to fiddle with a few wires. I spent 2 days toying around under my dash checking continuity here and there just to find out my OBD2 pins where spread out a tiny bit too far.

Where did you all come from? I have to admit I'm a bit surprised so many people have used moats. A year ago I searched for weeks and could hardly find anything. I'm quite shocked and kind of glad I wasn't alone in my initial purchase over a year ago.

 

[thebrownman1]

For a long time I resisted moving to ECMLink because it was so expensive. I found a guy 'locally' that was selling a kit so I jumped on it. I'd still be using the Ostrich if I wouldn't had seen the ad.

I think TunerPro is a powerful tool if you're willing to put time into learning about it. I still haven't grasped all of it but I did have some success with the right XDF.

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

The Moates Ostrich connects in with a ribbon cable to a two-row 34-pin (if I counted correctly) connector. I have not pulled the ECU but I do know that the ribbon cable connects in to an already-present 34-pin connector at the ECU side.

So you're telling me I need to pull the original ECU EPROM and put a SOCKET in its place?

 

[randman2011]

If you already have a socket, all you need to do is put the ECMLink in the socket. If you don't have one already then yes, you need to put a socket in its place. You'll just have to open the ECU and see before you order anything.

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

Thanks.
I'll pull the ECU over the next weekend or two and go from there.

Based on the pics from here -- https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/tuning-solutions-and-you.406033/. My Moates setup appears to already have this "socket".

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

Yes, the Ostrich connects via a ribbon cable. Generally to install an EPROM emulator the factory EPROM chip is desoldered from the ECU PCB and a socket is soldered in it's place. The ribbon cable is then inserted into that socket to provide a connection to the Moates emulator (Ostrich). Since you already have an Ostrich it's safe to assume that somebody already soldered a socket onto your ECU (unless for some strange reason they soldered the ribbon cable directly into the board) so it's as simple as carefully prying the ribbon cable connector out and inserting the ECMLink chip.

A bit of advice, since you don't know the level of skill or quality of the solder job the previous person did I would advise once you lift one corner or side of the ribbon cable a bit that you use a small pick and pry up on the connector against the socket not the PCB. There isn't much you can do to get it started except use something to cover the PCB where you are prying (a clean rag or something that won't scratch the board) as to not damage the board traces going to the socket.

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

When I was debugging a year or so ago, I purchased a new ECU and I know that the connector to plug the Moates ribbon in was already there on a new ECU.
So some of the above isn't making sense.

 

[TCB91GSX]

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/socketid

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

I'm still leaning on the side that with enough background info, a Moates Ostrich setup will suffice for my needs. I've PM'd a few of you for additional info.

When I bought the car, the original Moates Ostrich setup had this car EXTREMELY fast. Had I known what was under the dash at that time, I would have created some backup files. But that Ostrich either died or the bin became corrupted, can't really say for sure. I picked up a new Ostrich and I've been able to get it running but anything higher than about 5psi and she stutters - so I have a lot of work to do yet.

She's got no cat so the original Ostrich also had some code to disable the error code and now I'm stuck with a constant Check Engine Light. So that's on my to-do list also.

Many thanks for those offering assistance.

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

Not everyone purchases a socketed ECU.

I didn't personally because I have done plenty of desoldering prior to purchasing a Moates Ostrich setup. I was saying if an owner soldered the socket in themselves to be careful how rough you are with prying on the PCB as the solder joints may not be all that great.

 

[Humberto775]

I used the Ostrich for years. I still have some decent XDFs and BINs to get you going. PM me.

How is it going. New to the forum. I was researching some threads and came across this. Was wondering if you can help me on some info on the Ostrich. Sorry to bring up a old conversation