2G Manual rack options

[PlanZero]

I'm seriously considering a manual rack for my 2g for a few reasons, especially the amount of play noticeable above 80 mph on the highway. And no, I'm definitely not looping the PS lines.
I plan on picking up a 2g rack from a n/t eclipse or Sebring and doing the "depower" mod, but I wanted to know if there were any other options.
Will a 1g manual rack fit a 2g somehow?
Will a mustang 2 manual rack fit?
Or will the best option just be depowering a 2g rack?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Best option for 2g:

https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php

The 2g DSM rack is very similar to the rack used in the walk-through. Here is one of the racks I de-powered disassembled:

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I have used the flyin miata method for two steering racks with zero issues. I would not recommend doing this if you plan to autocross or the like. The power steering ratio is maintained de-powering the rack. The 1g rack will not fit. There has been discussion about using a mustang rack, but I believe a fair amount of fabrication would be needed to make it work.

Another thread on this topic:

• http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-manual-rack-solution.340324

 

[PlanZero]

That's what I figured and planned on doing. I just wanted to make sure. I plan on picking up a junkyard rack so I can take my time and do it right, however I do not have access to a welder at this time. Is there another way to seal the line holes besides welding them shut?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

I was able to locate some plugs from Fastenal years ago. Unfortunately, I do not have that rack with the plugs. Alternatively, the 3SX plugs may work from their AWS delete kit found here:

http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=28895

This is what the plugs look like:

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Unfortunately, I no longer have my 3000GT for reference either.

EDIT:

Here are the plugs sold separately:
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=30273

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[PlanZero]

Wow thanks a lot man. I have a fastenall down the street so I'll check there first. On the other hand, wouldn't a bolt do the same job? I mean, there's no pressure running through the system anymore, so why would I need a special plug?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

The special plug accounts for the flared fitting and would not need modification. The fittings I got from Fastenal did need modification and Teflon tape to work. They were not cheap either. The second rack I de-powered used a bolt that was close, and had it welded.


I came across a write-up of parts for the de-power when I completed it, and here are the bolts I used:

x1: 8.8 HCS 16 -1.5 x 25 (Fastenal part #38782)

x3: M14 x 25 961 - 10.9 HCSZ (Fastenal part #11114153)


These are a bit longer than needed, requiring me to cut them down a good bit.

 

[PlanZero]

The special plug accounts for the flared fitting and would not need modification. The fittings I got from Fastenal did need modification and Teflon tape to work. They were not cheap either. The second rack I de-powered used a bolt that was close, and had it welded.

Yeah the price is ridiculous. I realize the point of the tapered tip, but I don't see why an oil drain plug with some jbweld or tape wouldn't serve the same purpose. Also, how many plugs are needed? 2?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

I added the parts I used in post #6. There are two sizes required and totaling four plugs.

 

[PlanZero]

Alright thanks. One more thing, how does the rack feel? I don't mind my PS at low speeds, and I have all new control arms, tie rods, tight sway bars, etc., but I can't stand the amount of slop at higher speeds. The only other manual steering car I owned was a 75 Porsche 911 when I was a kid, and I loved it. My DSM is my DD by the way. Just wanted an opinion.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

It was easier to drive than having the power steering lines looped. The car turned much easier when in motion. The steering ratio was better then that 1g equipped with a manual steering rack. I would replace the inner tie-rods while you have the rack apart.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Hmm I never noticed enough play in the steering to consider pulling my rack and swapping it. Are you sure your pump is good and when is the last time you changed the fluid? Although, now that I think of it, I rarely cruise over 85MPH, I can't justify the 5th gear ratio so I'm usually around 70-80MPH. I always felt the 2G steering feel was pretty good compared to other cars built in the 90's.

Good luck with your endeavor though.

 

[PlanZero]

I seem to only notice this sensation on my fwd, not on my awd. Between about 70-90 the steering feels too loose to me, which i hate on these shi**y PA and NJ highways.The pump is good, fluid was changed a few months ago, and on my fwd I have newer steering/suspension components than my awd, including an st adjustable sway bar tightened all the way. At lower speeds she feels nice and tight. Alignment and tires are good.
I was going to try the swap and keep the pump and lines in place in case I change my mind right away.

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

Due to what I use my DSMs for at the moment, I have opted to retain power steering for low speed maneuvering. I have also had to fix the power steering cut-out as well.

I would not necessarily reccomend the power steering delete for a daily. Another consideration for the sloppy steering response would be to look into a tire with a stiffer sidewall. You would be amazed at the difference tire choice can make.

 

[EC17PSE]

Upon reading this it makes me think your valve inside the PS pump had gone bad, our cars have a RPM based steering system and not a speed based system so speed wont be the issue but RPM's will be. My best guess is the spring is bad and its opening all the way up there for giving you full fluid through the assist of steering,

Normally its the otherway around and people dont want it to cut out so they out a 1mm washer inside the vlave to stop it from closing and giving zero assist. But that not going to help you.

What will help is you need to open up your PS pump rebuild it and replace the spring inside and maybe buy a slightky stiffer spring or just renew it (stiffer will also make it cut out faster when the RPM drops) its the only way to fix it but a new spring of the same stiffness would be ideal,

 

[PlanZero]

Well here's the deal. The rack and most likely the pump are original with 151k on them. They show no apparent signs of damage, although last time I changed the inner tie rods I did notice a miniscule amount of fluid in the right boot.
As we know the rack can be a bit of a PITA to replace, considering I do all my repairs outdoors. As with all my repairs to this car, I try to modify or upgrade if possible, so I thought about putting a depowered rack in instead of a reman rack. I figured if I didn't like it I'd just sell it.
However, I do have a spare PS pump lying around, so if my problems lie in something so simple as ec17pse suggested, swapping the pump would be easier. Any more suggestions would be helpful.

 

[EC17PSE]

On the outside they might not show any signs of wear at all! Almost all dont, its when you open them up is when you find if its good or junk, 80% are perfectly fine with a rebuild kit but the kit does not include a spring just everything else.

As i said before its RPM based so you going 80-90mph means its around 3000rpm its not alot for cruising on the roads but if the spring inside is weak it will act like its 6000+rpm so then you get more fluid therego more assist and a lighter wheel, i just drove mine back from work and it felt normal on a cruise and not super light mine has 166k on it as im 100% certain its never been swapped hence why im rebuilding and modifying another to keep on top of maintenance.

so check your valve and make sure the internals are not sticking open. And all you need to do is undo the top nut on the banjo bolt on top as the spring is inside there. Unfortunately ive never found a spec sheet for how much load the spring should be so i cannot offer help on that but i can tell you its a pretty stiff (ish) small thick spring so it should not be easily compressed.

I hope its helped and im sorry i cannot be of more assistance to you.

 

[99gst_racer]

Just a heads up; A Mustang II rack will not work on a DSM. The Mustang II rack is front steer (located forward of the front wheels) and DSMs run rear steer racks.

But an Omni rack would work. You'd have to get some extended length outer tire rod ends and you'd also have to figure out some custom mounts to attach it to the k-member and whip up some sort of u-joint to attach to the OE column. I'd love to see this done with an OE k-member though.

I wish I had a CNC mill and the skills to design and build brackets to allow one of these racks to bolt up to a DSM...

 

[PlanZero]

I was going to start another thread, but I'm pretty sure this isn't a coincidence.
I have discovered that my rack is making a popping noise, most noticeable when the car is stationary and I jerk the wheel slightly between 1 and 2 o clock position. And yes, I disconnected the tie rods so it's definitely the rack. Problem is that diagnosing this was a b**ch because it only happens when both or at least one wheel is on the ground.
I can feel the pop when I put my hand on the gear lash (terminology?)
But I feel it on both sides, as when the right wheel is on the ground I feel it on the left and vice versa.
The passenger side tie rod boot has a small amount of fluid but it hasn't gotten worse in the year since I've owned her.
What is the cause of this? Could I just add some grease until I figure out what I'm doing for my rack?
Also, what are the chances that the yoke is the culprit? The bolt that attaches the yoke to the rack is secure, but I'll be extremely pissed if I replace the rack and it was only the yoke.
Thanks in advance.