Major weakness in the 4G63 motor...

[Antilles]

This guy is a troll. He bends his argument 6 different ways to keep people arguing with him. I agree with NOS Laser, if i were to read this thread front to back in one sitting I would slit my wrists.

 

[Antilles]

And for crying out loud, that RX7 dyno shows the power level at 6k just before letting off. Well well, both the DSM AND the RX7 pull to 6k and lose power....aint that interesting. the difference is the DSM has a flatter curve. Maybe they should have made the redline 6k in the DSM just to make you feel better. Rev the Rex to 7 grand and see if it still makes power.

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

He does have an RX-7 if it runs 12's im pretty sure it will pull off some high 12's. I have seen the car just befor the motor blew in it. The way i see it. Our motors make their power in the mid to mid upper range. There are very few motors stock that have good low end with good high end. It all depends on what the motor was buit for. Hondas have good top end power but weak low end. Nissans tend to have good low end and fall off on the top end or at least the 240SX. Our motors are strong in the low and mid range they were not built to be taken to 8 grand or we would have Vtech or somthing like that. Any motor can be made to have low and top end. Its just ours were built with mid range in mind. I don't know about you but i like it that way.

 

[na90dsm]

well said. i think that our cars make the best power at the mid rpm range and i happen to like it. pulls good and is very strong. i dont see the point of having to rev out to 8k when you can make power at 6k. top end isnt everything its what gets you there.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by autronicDSM
This thread is so pointless, obviously guy has no clue what makes top end power and i doubt he has a 12sec RX7 or whatever when yestarday he was asking how upgraded fuel pump gives more fuel...

Somebody should lock the thread.

I ended this thread a long time ago when I said "Thanks fellas". It is posters like you that are now making the thread even longer by flaming when you don't know me one bit...

Again, I try to end this thread by saying ..... THANKS FELLAS!!

-M

 

[turbobird92]

remember this engines design was for rally racing so that is why you hav good low and mid power compared to any other 4 cyl out there and enough top end for short spuirts.Gett a set of camshafts and open up the head.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

Maybe there is something wrong with your car? Most stock eclipses are making around 175hp/190ft-lbs at the wheels. Also you must consider the drivetrain loss. AWD dsm's are loosing more than 5% of there power over that of FWD. The weight also makes a huge difference.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0209tur_dynocell/

Probe GT's HP starts falling off around 5000rpm's. The dyno below is over a highly modified Probe GT turbo. And that whole thing about the 4th gear pull, that's all about gearing. I know for a fact that a FWD dsm is geared alot taller than a Probe GT.

http://www.maxx-motorsports.com/design/andrec5.jpg

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx
The car, even then, didn't show enough "ummph" at the top end. Please note, that I'm not saying I can't *DO* top end.. It's just that it looses the pull after 105mph in 4th gear..

If your turbo is in good shape, I can guarantee you are pulling timing like a mofo on the top end. You are probably out of fuel.

Get a data logger and check it out. Timing advance makes a HUGE difference and the ECU *WILL* pull more than 18* advance out which can mean as much as 40whp. (Been on the AWD Dyno with the 14B to verify this.)

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Intrusive97gsx
Maybe there is something wrong with your car? Most stock eclipses are making around 175hp/190ft-lbs at the wheels. Also you must consider the drivetrain loss. AWD dsm's are loosing more than 5% of there power over that of FWD. The weight also makes a huge difference.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0209tur_dynocell/

My car made 170whp (Okay 169) to all four, in stone stock, straight from sitting for a few years 103K tune. Bent wheel shaking the heck out of the car and all. :laugh:

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


My car made 170whp (Okay 169) to all four, in stone stock, straight from sitting for a few years 103K tune. Bent wheel shaking the heck out of the car and all. :laugh:

Vishnu Performance's dyno reads 15% lower than a dynojet.

-M

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


Vishnu Performance's dyno reads 15% lower than a dynojet.

-M

I don't understand the point of your reply. What are you trying to say?

 

[Phoenyx]

My dyno'd HP numbers would be higher than they are if it was done on a dynojet - hence, nothing being wrong with my car's motor.

-M

 

[pneumo]

O come on!!!! "Nothing wrong with you motor"? Didn't you post a dyno chart? Sure 153HP with few mods and an extra 15% loss to the Vishnu dyno means you HP is OK, but no properly tuned 4g63 will have the power drop off at 5200 rpm then peak at 6300rpm. We're trying to help, but you keep throwing mods on the car instead of fixing the problem. I know you can tune. After all, didn't you say you had a Halltech standalone on the RX7? The 5000 to 6000 rpm band is too rich. Recheck for boost leaks, they seem to crop up repeatedly on these old cars.

 

[Tevenor]

I would rather have more power under the curve than a higher peak power rating. One is good for show, one is good for go.

The engine is what it is. None of us are Mitsu designers. We deal with what they gave us and improve it. Accept it and move on. Just like you accept that most honda engines will be peaky and RX7 motors will blow easily in the hands of bad tuners. You accept it and move on.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by pneumo
O come on!!!! "Nothing wrong with you motor"? Didn't you post a dyno chart? Sure 153HP with few mods and an extra 15% loss to the Vishnu dyno means you HP is OK, but no properly tuned 4g63 will have the power drop off at 5200 rpm then peak at 6300rpm. We're trying to help, but you keep throwing mods on the car instead of fixing the problem. I know you can tune. After all, didn't you say you had a Halltech standalone on the RX7? The 5000 to 6000 rpm band is too rich. Recheck for boost leaks, they seem to crop up repeatedly on these old cars.

There is nothing wrong with the motor outside of it being tuned properly. I will address this as I"ve mentioned in many posts..

-M

 

[RedBird]

Pheonix I got a 1995 GS-T stock turbo, stock ehaust with greddy UIP and BOV and injen intake with a joe-p mbc pushing 15psi after my 22psi spike in 4th and I'd put money down that I'd take the probe easy on the highway. As long as my car doesn't knock on my boost spikes it pulls like a bat out of hell top end. It'll pull to the 140 mph governor in 5th easy. I know I sound cocky but I definitely don't like your tone either...you say in 4th gear above 6000 rpm it loses pull, how fast are you going? I'm hitting 5th at about 115-120mph.
One last thing, has anyone else spiked a T-25 to 25 psi in the winter?

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by RedBird
Pheonix I got a 1995 GS-T stock turbo, stock ehaust with greddy UIP and BOV and injen intake with a joe-p mbc pushing 15psi after my 22psi spike in 4th and I'd put money down that I'd take the probe easy on the highway. As long as my car doesn't knock on my boost spikes it pulls like a bat out of hell top end. It'll pull to the 140 mph governor in 5th easy. I know I sound cocky but I definitely don't like your tone either...you say in 4th gear above 6000 rpm it loses pull, how fast are you going? I'm hitting 5th at about 115-120mph.
One last thing, has anyone else spiked a T-25 to 25 psi in the winter?

You would lose. Not trying to be a butthead, but you'd lose pretty bad up top (above 120mph) with that setup. I would love to test your theory, but alas, you are all the way across the country!

4th gear can go to 125mph right when you hit 7000rpms. It takes too long to get there. Perhaps I'll try switching gears at around 115mph instead of trying to take it to redline.

-M

 

[Antilles]

I find it amusing that you think a stock or even modified turbo probe could take his car. I have never seen or driven a turbo mx6 or probe that was faster than a stock DSM.

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by Antilles
I find it amusing that you think a stock or even modified turbo probe could take his car. I have never seen or driven a turbo mx6 or probe that was faster than a stock DSM.

These cars are extremely underestimated by the DSM community. The car is definitely in their league. I remember I went down deer park avenue in Long Island, NY one night and came across a GS-T 2nd gen eclipse. I pulled up and asked the guy if he wanted to race. He said, "what car you going to race in?" I said, "This car here (noting my red Probe turbo that just had exhaust and upgraded turbo with stock boost). He replied, "Are you serious?" I said, "Come on out and find out!" Needless to say, we were dead even from 1st - 3rd gear and then I started walking him....

-M

 

[na90dsm]

i dont think the 4 cylinder probe or mx6 could walk on a dsm. my boys v6 mx6 waistes the 4 banger version and i have seen a highly upgraded probe get spanked by a mildly tuned dsm. not asying that they will start to leave a bit in the top end, but thats because the gears are a slight bit bigger in the top end. say for instence if you were to take a dsm and a probe and line them up on a drag strip the dsm would win. its quicker off the line and the top end doesnt even matter because it gets such a jump off the line. put a fwd prboe against a fwd dsm with 2 equally good drivers and the dsm will come out on top too. the probe will get a good jump but the dsm will get a quicker jump due to the shorted 1-3 gears. when it hits 4th the probe s far enough behind that it will win. not by much but it still would win.

i would like to see this match up. a probe 4 banger turbo vs a dsm fwd turbo. i think it would be damn colse.

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


These cars are extremely underestimated by the DSM community. The car is definitely in their league. -M

That's pretty good, a Probe/MX6 turbo in the same league as a DSM You should go into comedy...really.

Tell you what, I've been a closet Mazda guy for a long time, even owned a T-II that went 12.8@113mph with minimal mods and helped build and tune a MX6 turbo, but you are FREAKIN CRAZY if you think the same potential exists. Period.

Show me ONE probe turbo that can do what I did and run my time. (see sig) You can't end of story.

I'm almost sorry I took your post serious and offered help...troll.

 

[na90dsm]

i dont understand how this thread went from a problem wit the 4g63 to mx6/probe cars are better than dsm's. i dont understand anymore

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by JayHass


Tell you what, I've been a closet Mazda guy for a long time, even owned a T-II that went 12.8@113mph with minimal mods and helped build and tune a MX6 turbo, but you are FREAKIN CRAZY if you think the same potential exists. Period.

I'm almost sorry I took your post serious and offered help...troll.

Jay,

I never mentioned that the FE2 has the same power potential as the 4G63!! I mentioned that *STOCK* for *STOCK* the car is in the same league. And that is certainly true!

Btw, I'm no troll! I love my freakin DSM! I also like my Probe and my RX7!!


-M

 

[RipperXX]

Probes look sleak but thats about it in my experiance... they dont accelerate hard past 20mph


(talking about a friends NT auto :laugh: )

 

[na90dsm]

he's talkin about the 5 spd turbo 2cyl.